Install and Operation of the SUNGOLD 10KW 48V SPLIT PHASE SOLAR INVERTER

[Kenny_]

Wired my battery breaker/cutoff in:

Oh and Cindy Lou Who from Sungold Santa replied to my message about my 'bogus' rogue battery saying they would get back to me when technical support arrives on Monday.

 

[Kenny_]

DC Power Supply Variable 60V 5A

Connect to your battery with a PC. Use the above power supply to charge while monitoring cell voltages.

Ordered....

still waiting to hear what Sungold has to say about this battery/system...

 

[Kenny_]

I just realized this table was in the inverter manual, I sure wish they had listed the parameter numbers these values match in the inverter...I'm easily confused by all these words I'm still trying to learn/understand.

Can anyone match these rows with the associated parameter # in the 10K48 or SNRE inverter
also I realize this are for Li-ion not LiFePo which may be different I suppose.

 

[Kenny_]

P.S. still not word on my battery 'problem' from Sungold....the asked if all the comm cables were connected and connected to inverter....I said ... well duh! Yes!

I sent them another followup email with this screen grab and asking again why this one battery is behaving differently that the other and the I think it should be replaced under warranty. I just don't understand why it is acting so much differently than the other four (whether charging or discharging). This is after charging #5 up to the same levels as the others (in fact a bit more) and then letting the system run with all batteries enabled as normal. #5 dropped back down and went below the others but still at this point was supplying most of the power out. I just don't get it.
Something is different, something is wrong.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I just realized this table was in the inverter manual, I sure wish they had listed the parameter numbers these values match in the inverter...I'm easily confused by all these words I'm still trying to learn/understand.

Can anyone match these rows with the associated parameter # in the 10K48 or SNRE inverter
also I realize this are for Li-ion not LiFePo which may be different I suppose.

View attachment 182345

Parameter 08.
It's the number of cells in series and the associated charging voltages.
You'd want L16 for your batteries (I'm 99.9% positive they are 16s)
I don't like they are floating at 3.55v per cell.
USER ftw!

 

[Kenny_]

Yeah I got that....mine is L16.

What I'm trying to understand is these various terms and voltages etc.

What is your recommended Float (absorption?) voltage?

Are those terms equivalent? Float and Absorption?

 

[42OhmsPA]

Yeah I got that....mine is L16.

What I'm trying to understand is these various terms and voltages etc.

What is your recommended Float (absorption?) voltage?

Are those terms equivalent? Float and Absorption?

3.375V - 3.425V. (54V - 54.8V). I run on the higher end when cells go out of balance, otherwise I run on the low end.

Again I refer to Steve's wisdom.
Post in thread 'Why is bulk/absorption voltage used?' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/why-is-bulk-absorption-voltage-used.73352/post-932219

 

[Kenny_]

So Absorption is a slightly higher voltage that (should) runs for the some time before Float voltage and both are different than the Bulk Charge Voltage....

Ya think this could get more complicated?
Don't answer that!

 

[Kenny_]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Battery-3-stage-charging-bulk-charge-absorb-charge-and-float-charge_fig9_319281880

 

[Kenny_]

miya asked • Oct 01 2020 at 2:37 AM

Charging - Bulk, Absorption and Float​

Hi All

Can someone help validate / correct my understanding on the above.

I am trying to understand in simple terms what is happening in these states of charge. I have read Energy Unlimited - and other documents - I think I've got my head around it - but fear I haven't understood it correctly. Be gentle with me if I am being stupid .

Bulk -

The charger throws amps in to the battery - as many as it can (while being limited by any specific limits set in the charger). As loads of amps pile in to the battery - the battery voltage rises. When the battery voltage reaches the specified absorption V - bulk stops - and absorption starts. This phase will simply go on as long as it takes - to get to the battery V to the set absorption V. This could take 1 minute, 1 hours, 3 hours....

Absorption -

The charger continues to throw amps at the battery - but in this phase it doesn't allow the voltage to go above the specified absorption V. So, as time goes on, in this phase, the number of Amps drop off, as the battery gets fuller, the charger requires less amps to maintain the battery at the specified V. Eventually the number of Amps being thrown at the battery drops to almost nothing - to hold the battery at the specified absorption V. At this stage, or, when hitting the time limit set for absorption, the charge stops absorption and switches to float. This phase will go on for as long as it takes, or, for a specified time if time limited in settings of any given charger.

Float -

The charger now just holds the battery at a lower specified voltage - trickling the lowest number of Amps in to the battery that it can- to maintain the float Voltage.

Charging - Bulk, Absorption and Float - Victron Community

community.victronenergy.com

 

[Kenny_]

P.S. still not word on my battery 'problem' from Sungold....the asked if all the comm cables were connected and connected to inverter....I said ... well duh! Yes!

I sent them another followup email with this screen grab and asking again why this one battery is behaving differently that the other and the I think it should be replaced under warranty. I just don't understand why it is acting so much differently than the other four (whether charging or discharging). This is after charging #5 up to the same levels as the others (in fact a bit more) and then letting the system run with all batteries enabled as normal. #5 dropped back down and went below the others but still at this point was supplying most of the power out. I just don't get it.
Something is different, something is wrong.

View attachment 182375

Well Cindy Lou Who replied:

support@sungoldpower.com​

1:52 AM (2 hours ago)

Dear Mr Kenny A. Chaffin,

We have confirmed with our engineers and they said it is normal.
The battery #1 is connected with the inverter with communication cable. The electricity usage ranking is 12345, and the battery #5 is the furthest. The voltage of battery #5 will be high at the beginning, and then the batteries will return voltage to each other - from the battery #5 output to the battery #1234, so the consumption of the battery #5 is the highest.
You can also swap the order between the batteries and test it out.

Best Regards
Cindy

....


I already Swapped both the physical position and the communication addressing One at a Time and the problem follows the battery. The are connected in a 'diagonal' wiring - the Positive from the inverter is connected to Battery #1 and the Negative from the inverter is connected to Battery #5. The Problem still exists.

How do I return and replace this defective battery?

 

[42OhmsPA]

Well Cindy Lou Who replied:

support@sungoldpower.com​

1:52 AM (2 hours ago)

Dear Mr Kenny A. Chaffin,

We have confirmed with our engineers and they said it is normal.
The battery #1 is connected with the inverter with communication cable. The electricity usage ranking is 12345, and the battery #5 is the furthest. The voltage of battery #5 will be high at the beginning, and then the batteries will return voltage to each other - from the battery #5 output to the battery #1234, so the consumption of the battery #5 is the highest.
You can also swap the order between the batteries and test it out.

Best Regards
Cindy

....


I already Swapped both the physical position and the communication addressing One at a Time and the problem follows the battery. The are connected in a 'diagonal' wiring - the Positive from the inverter is connected to Battery #1 and the Negative from the inverter is connected to Battery #5. The Problem still exists.

How do I return and replace this defective battery?

Lol.
Explain to her they are not wired inappropriately... They are wired so even current is drawn through the batteries with the negative to 1 and positive to 5... Have them explain that one. Also explain you've already swapped the batteries.

Really I don't think it's defective, just out of balance. If you want to test it, isolate it and load it down with a 50a draw and see how long it runs and what the cells voltages show near empty, then recharge to full and see what the voltages show.

 

[Kenny_]

Lol.
Explain to her they are not wired inappropriately... They are wired so even current is drawn through the batteries with the negative to 1 and positive to 5... Have them explain that one. Also explain you've already swapped the batteries.

Really I don't think it's defective, just out of balance. If you want to test it, isolate it and load it down with a 50a draw and see how long it runs and what the cells voltages show near empty, then recharge to full and see what the voltages show.

Yeah, I told her that and I agree it may not be defective but it's definitely acting differently. I'm just trying to set the groundwork and feel them out at Sungold about warrant/returns....

I have a bench charger on the way and I may pull #5 out of the system and give it hell....

I did recharge it from solar yesterday with other batteries disconnected (not to 100% but above the other 4) and it now is at the bottom but still supplying most of the current....

trying hard to learn and understand.... may be that as you say it just needs some exercise.... I didn't realize I was going to have to babysit my Solar Power System... I was hoping to plug it in and pretty much forget it but damn sure doesn't seem to be that way.

 

[Kenny_]

Well...when it rains it pours! Cloudy/cold today....batteries dropping and guess what UNDERVOLTAGE ALARM on Battery #2 ... which is what started all this.... Cell #7 at 2.739....Damn... took pics sent to Cindy Lou Who...
Going to try to reset/charge now...

You know what though...I'm thinking these Sungold batteries are shit!!!

(or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing or not charging/managing them properly)

Arrrgh...

So advice???
Help?

 

[Crowz]

It may have a bad cell. Battery 2 has been fine so far right? Its not the 3,5 swap stuff right?

 

[Kenny_]

A neophyte question....how would I force charge all the batteries from the grid (via inverter) without waiting on them to hit bottom?
I assume probably by changing parameters but maybe that's too complicated...dunno....

I find this battery management stuff a real PITA. It should just work! <crying>

So I the error on the battery cleared after I disconnected/connected the battery via the breaker (not sure why) but the error persisted on the Inverter until I unplugged the Comm Cable... it's clear now but cell 7 is still low at the same voltage...even loser 2.734.... WTF.... it's all VOODOO!!

 

[Kenny_]

It may have a bad cell. Battery 2 has been fine so far right? Its not the 3,5 swap stuff right?

No it got an Undervoltage error a week or so ago (would have to look back) but that's what started all this with me noticing, checking etc SOC levels and etc which is why I noticed Battery #5 (#3 at the time before I moved it) was acting peculiar ... different than the other four.

Now checking all the battery displays directly I see a few UV errors on all of them and a couple of OV errors....

Not sure what (if anything) I'm doing wrong or not doing properly.

 

[Hedges]

One battery alarms for cell low voltage. What SoC are the remaining batteries?
A single cell will hit bottom first, but I hope not before other batteries get into the lower knee.

In that case, you need to manage loads during times of poor production.

 

[42OhmsPA]

A neophyte question....how would I force charge all the batteries from the grid (via inverter) without waiting on them to hit bottom?
I assume probably by changing parameters but maybe that's too complicated...dunno....

I find this battery management stuff a real PITA. It should just work! <crying>

01 utility 06 solar and utility 28 pick your amperage.

 

[Crowz]

A neophyte question....how would I force charge all the batteries from the grid (via inverter) without waiting on them to hit bottom?
I assume probably by changing parameters but maybe that's too complicated...dunno....

I find this battery management stuff a real PITA. It should just work! <crying>

That one is easy. Set it to sub in place of sbu. It will run on the grid and charge the batteries. Leave it that way for 2 days or so and if they look ok balanced wise flip it back to sbu.