I would like to setup a small Solar System by the side of my home but as I said I live in Massachusetts and we don't get a lot of light as compared to southern states and we have to deal with snow! Hence, clean off the solar panels as well. So, is it worth it? I love the idea, but maybe a wind turbine might be a better idea. What do you guys think?
My name is Mark and I am wondering if it is even worth doing a Solar System in the North East like Massachusetts?
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Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
Many of us in Canada have Solar, and many fellow off-gridders that are Solar Only. Is it feasible / practical YES !
Panel Angle & method of install will determine many things, snow accumulation can be a problem, but it all depends on your setup. Ground Mount, Roof Mount, Tracker etc....
WIND can work very well or very badly, there are "needs" that have to be met for Good Wind Turbine installs. Too many people don't realize this, go off and pop one on top of their garage in between tall trees and whatnot and get no wind to run the Turbine, then get all mad and say how it doesn't work... They only deserve a 2x4 up side the head because they refuse to read or understand what is needed or WHY.... You have to have the right place with the right "clear" air currents & winds t make wind work, regardless of Turbine Size...
I can do wind easily enough BUT I am on a south facing Ridge, 1500' over looking 3 valleys at the junction with a clear air channel running all the way up and a constant breeze to heavy winds on that part of my property and no interference from the forest there. but if I was to put it 200' either east or west of that spot I would not get the wind. Only way to test it, it to put a weather station unit on a pole at height (40' or more) and monitor / track & log what it really does... It takes planning, testing & serious thought, not jus a thing you can chuck up in 1/2 day and just generate power.... Like not putting Solar Panels in a Shaded area which is common sense right.... too many put Turbines in places with bad / poor wind flow but never consider that and blame the Turbine rather than their own stupidity for putting it in the wrong place..
Note as well.... there are MANY Charlatans flogging crap turbines for cheap ! Bergey, Primus and a few others are seriously tested and proven to be good devices but now your talking real money for real product.
REFS:
Panel Angle & method of install will determine many things, snow accumulation can be a problem, but it all depends on your setup. Ground Mount, Roof Mount, Tracker etc....
WIND can work very well or very badly, there are "needs" that have to be met for Good Wind Turbine installs. Too many people don't realize this, go off and pop one on top of their garage in between tall trees and whatnot and get no wind to run the Turbine, then get all mad and say how it doesn't work... They only deserve a 2x4 up side the head because they refuse to read or understand what is needed or WHY.... You have to have the right place with the right "clear" air currents & winds t make wind work, regardless of Turbine Size...
I can do wind easily enough BUT I am on a south facing Ridge, 1500' over looking 3 valleys at the junction with a clear air channel running all the way up and a constant breeze to heavy winds on that part of my property and no interference from the forest there. but if I was to put it 200' either east or west of that spot I would not get the wind. Only way to test it, it to put a weather station unit on a pole at height (40' or more) and monitor / track & log what it really does... It takes planning, testing & serious thought, not jus a thing you can chuck up in 1/2 day and just generate power.... Like not putting Solar Panels in a Shaded area which is common sense right.... too many put Turbines in places with bad / poor wind flow but never consider that and blame the Turbine rather than their own stupidity for putting it in the wrong place..
Note as well.... there are MANY Charlatans flogging crap turbines for cheap ! Bergey, Primus and a few others are seriously tested and proven to be good devices but now your talking real money for real product.
REFS:
Home - Bergey Windpower Co.
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away” -Antoine de St. Exupery
www.bergey.com
Wind Power Systems, Wind Turbines :: Primus Wind Power
Primus Wind Power is the leader in portable wind power turbines and maker of the of Air Breeze Turbine, Air 30 Turbine & Air 40 Turbine.
primuswindpower.com
offgriddle
"FOREVER BEGINNING"
Yes Solar works well, I am familiar with New England. Now, if you want to replace grid power, watt for watt, 24/7/365 the upfront costs will be 25 to 50 k depending on how much electricity you use. For many people, that figure is no problemo and a five to ten year break even point plus maintenance costs along the way are inconsequential due to beacouop dinero. My simple solar system consists of: a couple of solar panels, a couple of batteries, a solar charge controller, a shore power battery charger, an invertor and a generator. This system provides 90% of my power needs and when there are gray weather periods or I want to run heavy loads, I run the generator.
Last edited:
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
You can check the insolation map for your area, but solar is usually cheaper then the grid and generally has a payback period under 15 years (a lot shorter if you DIY); but how good is that payback period compared to other investments, what are the local/national incentives, and there are a whole lot of other questions.
Check out the thread: Is Solar really worth it?
Check out the thread: Is Solar really worth it?
Thank You for your effort and time and gave me pause that I need to think more about my endeavor of Solar and Wind to make sure I start the project for success. First reason I asked the question. Great insight so thanks you.
Sincerely
Mark English
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
My suggestion to start with... Look at yoru property and the angles / positions you think you can put solar panels and even a turbine (in the future). Next look at your power bill(s) and figure out your average monthly usages... summer & winter ! Yes that is the "whole load" with everything as is right now. Once you know your monthly average kWh used and average daily kWh used (in various seasons), pick the TWO WORST / Heaviest, days for day avg. That is the total amount of juice you need to generate in order to be grid free. Don't worry, your initial reactions may shock you (no pun intended) but stay calm, Everyone starts with a scare and then realize it's nowhere near as scary...
Solar of course is the default standard and that should be implemented first, not only because it is cheaper to do so off the bat but it can be added to, while your realizing immediate results. The trick is to build out a system that can expand over time (unless you have a heavy wallet), never get "locked in" shit happens and things change....
Can that be done by solar, solar & wind ? That is to be determined.
Can you use a Wind Turbine ? Well there are small ones and big ones (not huge like the grid types) but 2-10 kw like the Bergey's http://www.bergey.com/ These are the REAL DEAL not some offshore, uncertified, untested. Of course they are NOT cheap ! Only other ones (smaller) which are thoroughly tested & certified are from Primus http://primuswindpower.com/ don't think Marine is better, it's a common mistake people make.
For a List of Certified Small Wind Turbines models at this time, look Here:
http://smallwindcertification.org/certified-turbines/
You can also get more info on the Organisation there on the site.
More info here @ Office of Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy (Energy.Gov)
Wind Testing and Certification (Large & Small systems.) https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/wind-testing-and-certification
* Two articles written by my primary Solar Gear supplier & friend. Look at the other resources there https://www.solacity.com/learning/
The Truth About Small Wind Turbines
www.solacity.com
Small Wind Turbine Site Selection https://www.solacity.com/small-wind-turbine-site-selection/
Your solar angles aren't bad in general, I picked Boston for this below but you can check it out yourself for your town/city.
www.solarelectricityhandbook.com
Solar of course is the default standard and that should be implemented first, not only because it is cheaper to do so off the bat but it can be added to, while your realizing immediate results. The trick is to build out a system that can expand over time (unless you have a heavy wallet), never get "locked in" shit happens and things change....
Can that be done by solar, solar & wind ? That is to be determined.
Can you use a Wind Turbine ? Well there are small ones and big ones (not huge like the grid types) but 2-10 kw like the Bergey's http://www.bergey.com/ These are the REAL DEAL not some offshore, uncertified, untested. Of course they are NOT cheap ! Only other ones (smaller) which are thoroughly tested & certified are from Primus http://primuswindpower.com/ don't think Marine is better, it's a common mistake people make.
For a List of Certified Small Wind Turbines models at this time, look Here:
http://smallwindcertification.org/certified-turbines/
You can also get more info on the Organisation there on the site.
More info here @ Office of Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy (Energy.Gov)
Wind Testing and Certification (Large & Small systems.) https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/wind-testing-and-certification
* Two articles written by my primary Solar Gear supplier & friend. Look at the other resources there https://www.solacity.com/learning/
The Truth About Small Wind Turbines
The Truth About Small Wind Turbines – Solacity
Installing a small wind turbine? Get the information you need for an informed decision: The good and the bad, just the literal truth to help you choose.
www.solacity.com
Your solar angles aren't bad in general, I picked Boston for this below but you can check it out yourself for your town/city.
Solar Angle Calculator
The solar angle calculator tells you by location the optimum angle to get the best out of your system.
www.solarelectricityhandbook.com
My father and uncle, who both lived in Western Massachusetts, did solar there for decades. Near the end my father was giving his excess solar credits to our neighbors. Yes, you need to clean off the snow, and it can help to have the ability to adjust your array positions for time of day or time of year (my father used the "manual" tracker approach for some of his arrays), but it's doable. Frugal electricity use (harder in these modern times) might allow you to generate more than you use for a good portion of the year. We didn't live in a place with good wind, but that's a nice option too. Water power too if you have a stream near your property (just watch out for wetlands regulations).
I'm in Mass. Just putting together my small system now...So I'll let you know! Bottom line is it depends what you're trying to do. Dave Poz (YouTuber) is also in Mass. He does a lot of solar projects lastly the Alt-E store is in Boxboro and Amy is on this forum so you have a great local DIY resource to work with
Rbertalotto
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2019
- Messages
- 394
When I had Solar City install mt 10,500w system, 5 years ago, Massachusetts offered some amazing incentives to sell power back to the grid. No other states in NE were offering anything close to this, at the time. I did the math and it was a no brainer to do a zero money down, $77 a month 20 year lease for my system. In the past five years, my yearly total electric bill, including lease payments, has been under $800.....One year it was $360! (Previously I was at $100+ a month...I heat and hot water with gas)
And I have a hobby machine shop in the garage with welders, milling machine, lathe, blast cabinet, compressor and dust collector.
My town, Dartmouth, is now at over 20% solar. Seems every fifth house now has solar on it! And our capped landfill and other areas have been covered with solar panels.
So it seems to me, it is a good investment up here in NE.
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES... So many folks in Massachusetts have taken advantage of the solar incentives offered by the government, that there is dwindling resources available for the utility to maintain the infrastructure. Therefore rates need to be increased. We already pay just about the most expensive per Kw in the world! (Recently, three large power plants have been shuttered.....There is nearly no generation here in NE any longer...) But with a back feed, grid tie system, rates go up and so do our credits.
If you don't have solar up here in NE, Now or Later you will be paying exorbitant rates for your electricity.
Just my opinion.......
And I have a hobby machine shop in the garage with welders, milling machine, lathe, blast cabinet, compressor and dust collector.
My town, Dartmouth, is now at over 20% solar. Seems every fifth house now has solar on it! And our capped landfill and other areas have been covered with solar panels.
So it seems to me, it is a good investment up here in NE.
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES... So many folks in Massachusetts have taken advantage of the solar incentives offered by the government, that there is dwindling resources available for the utility to maintain the infrastructure. Therefore rates need to be increased. We already pay just about the most expensive per Kw in the world! (Recently, three large power plants have been shuttered.....There is nearly no generation here in NE any longer...) But with a back feed, grid tie system, rates go up and so do our credits.
If you don't have solar up here in NE, Now or Later you will be paying exorbitant rates for your electricity.
Just my opinion.......
Steve, what great information and the follow up of detail is awesome too. Thank you for your time and effort and I will keep the community informed of my endeavor!My suggestion to start with... Look at yoru property and the angles / positions you think you can put solar panels and even a turbine (in the future). Next look at your power bill(s) and figure out your average monthly usages... summer & winter ! Yes that is the "whole load" with everything as is right now. Once you know your monthly average kWh used and average daily kWh used (in various seasons), pick the TWO WORST / Heaviest, days for day avg. That is the total amount of juice you need to generate in order to be grid free. Don't worry, your initial reactions may shock you (no pun intended) but stay calm, Everyone starts with a scare and then realize it's nowhere near as scary...
Solar of course is the default standard and that should be implemented first, not only because it is cheaper to do so off the bat but it can be added to, while your realizing immediate results. The trick is to build out a system that can expand over time (unless you have a heavy wallet), never get "locked in" shit happens and things change....
Can that be done by solar, solar & wind ? That is to be determined.
Can you use a Wind Turbine ? Well there are small ones and big ones (not huge like the grid types) but 2-10 kw like the Bergey's http://www.bergey.com/ These are the REAL DEAL not some offshore, uncertified, untested. Of course they are NOT cheap ! Only other ones (smaller) which are thoroughly tested & certified are from Primus http://primuswindpower.com/ don't think Marine is better, it's a common mistake people make.
For a List of Certified Small Wind Turbines models at this time, look Here:
http://smallwindcertification.org/certified-turbines/
You can also get more info on the Organisation there on the site.
More info here @ Office of Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy (Energy.Gov)
Wind Testing and Certification (Large & Small systems.) https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/wind-testing-and-certification
* Two articles written by my primary Solar Gear supplier & friend. Look at the other resources there https://www.solacity.com/learning/
The Truth About Small Wind TurbinesSmall Wind Turbine Site Selection https://www.solacity.com/small-wind-turbine-site-selection/The Truth About Small Wind Turbines – Solacity
Installing a small wind turbine? Get the information you need for an informed decision: The good and the bad, just the literal truth to help you choose.
Your solar angles aren't bad in general, I picked Boston for this below but you can check it out yourself for your town/city.
View attachment 3260Solar Angle Calculator
The solar angle calculator tells you by location the optimum angle to get the best out of your system.
Sincerely-
Mark English
Rbertalotto, I appreciate your opinion and agree my electric rates are outrages. I am talking about the costs that I am unable to do anything about as an ex: transportation costs which continue to increase. In Sutton my electric bills are over $400.00 a month. So, I appreciate your opinion.
Sincerely-
Mark English
Charles, I am a late bloomer here and your father was kind to your neighbors with giving his excess solar credits to your neighbors. No streams through our 1.8 acres, but plenty of wind with solar would be a viable solution. Thank you for your time helping with your story.
Sincerely-
Mark English
Mac6792 I will check them out! Thank you for your time for the referal.
Sincerely-
Mark English
Svetz-
I didn't realize there was an insolation map, I will check the link too. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely-
Mark English
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