WTF is a powerstation? WTF is a Solar Generator?

Yes, a rechargeable battery can be refilled, just like a gas generator needs to be refilled. But the battery sill transforms chemical energy to electrical energy via a chemical reaction.

Go look up how batteries work.

Batteries BOTH store energy in the form of chemical potential energy and transform that energy into electricity via a chemical reaction. That's, in fact, how they work and have always worked. Where THIS group benefit is that smart people have found a reversible reaction so that you can turn that reaction back around and turn electrical energy into chemical potential energy.

I'm not making any analogies- this is how they actually work.

Your functions are not complete, BTW, as both the battery and mechanical generator transform chemical energy to electricity.

For something that just stores electrons (aka raw electricity) to use at a later time- that's a capacitor. Not a battery. Batteries don't just store raw electrons, they reverse a chemical reaction, which can keep going back and forth.

And I'm not talking about what terms to do what- I'm just explaining what stuff does- you can use whatever words you want to describe them.

It's funny that you suggest that a generator can make electricity without continuous input. If not for a constant supply of fuel, they would not run. And I know that the right size battery will output electricity longer than a gas generator with a tank. Gas generators don't make electricity out of nothing....

You are hung up on the word "generator"- which is largely been mislabeled technically, but it works, and it stuck. Just like the use of Watt-hr is very confusing to many, when the technical correct unit of energy is Joules. But it works and that's ok.

Another angle to look at a battery....

You would agree that a lemon does not have any electricity in it, wouldn't you?

But if you stuck a piece of copper in one end, and a piece of zinc in the other, it's now a battery, and will generate about 1V of electrical potential. You can power small stuff with that lemon.

There's no electrical storage in that lemon, yet it generates electricity. Two different metals in an acid can result in a reaction that makes electricity if wired correctly. That is a battery. But that battery can not be recharged.

On the other hand, a rechargeable battery will let you reverse that reaction so that electrical potential can go almost back to the original amount, thus allowing for a battery that can be replenished (like a gas tank).

On the third hand, a capacitor is nothing until someone fills it with some electricity and then it can be released at a later time.

There are more way that electricity is generated than moving coils through a magnetic field.

Dzl said:

Respectfully I think your are missing the forest for the trees.

At the end of the day (and by definition), a battery is an energy storage device, a generator is a (mechanical) electricity generation device.

A generator's function is taking a source of energy, and converting it to electricity. Whereas a battery is dependent on an electrical input to output electrictity, that is not electrical energy generation, even if it converts it from electrical energy to chemical energy and back to electrical energy.

its correct to compare a battery to gasoline (energy storage), but its incorrect to compare a battery to a generator (and I think if you take a step back and look at the big picture you wouldn't call a battery a generator)



I think you are getting confused in your analogy. Earlier you compared the battery to the gasoline (the input and energy source), now you are comparing the PV panels to the gasoline and the battery to the generator.

Realistically, the only thing generating electrical energy from non-electrical energy, which is the function of a generator, is the PV panels (input: light, output: electrical energy). A batteries input is electrical energy, and its output is electrical energy, its irrelevant whether there is an intermediary step of converting electricity to chemical energy for storage and then back to electricity.

I think you are smart, and right about most of the individual details (but misunderstanding a couple), but missing the forest for the trees, and getting a bit lost in the analogy (as am I at times). But at the end of the day, a generator is an electrical energy generation device, a battery cannot do that, a battery is an energy storage device.

In our context (maybe in every context) a battery is always downstream of the electrical generation device (PV panels, wind turbine, alternator, or powerplant) and is fully dependent on a generator. A generator must be able to take a non-electrical energy source, and generate electrical energy. You could generate electricity via solar panels and store it in a battery, or you could generate energy via a gas generator and store it in a battery but in either case, the battery stores the energy, but it does not generate electricity.

A battery is simply not a generator. And a battery with a solar charge controller and a 120v wall socket and an inverter hooked up to it and labeled a 'solar generator' is still not a generator, it takes electricity generated elsewhere, stores it, and supplies that electricity later, but its still dependent on something external to it generating the electricity.



I think that it is meant to convey a device that generates electricity, not that generates energy. But colloquially we often use those words interchangeably outside of physics. Both Wikipedia and the three or four dictionary definitions I looked at all reference mechanical device that generate electrical energy from mechanical energy or another form of energy.

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I am sorry you don’t even see the issue with what you are saying.

a generator weather it is gasoline powered, or battery powered is a device that outputs usable electricity when needed.

you state that a battery is just a storage device for energy... sounds like a gas tank to me.

you state that a “solar generator” is just a battery, with an inverter to convert the battery to voltage you can use... sounds like a generator to me.

you then state a generator will continually output electricity... only if connected to a constant source of fuel... like solar power?
Or are you comparing a generator like from a power plant, that is powered as long as water runs through the turbine?
Please explain.

Dzl said:

Respectfully I think your are missing the forest for the trees.

At the end of the day (and by definition), a battery is an energy storage device, a generator is a (mechanical) electricity generation device.

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let’s try this...

why are you calling the “solar generator” a battery? It is a packaged device that has a battery...

so is a car...

There is no muddy waters other than by people that want to argue what they think the term means because they are fixated on a portion of vocabulary...

Will has stated in his videos the term is here to stay. Just deal with it.
When a consumer goes to the store to buy a generator what do you think they want to buy?

I sell generators, and wire them to homes.
A generator is a device that provides usable electricity when the grid is down, or when they are camping.
Both gasoline powered and battery powered generators do this...

Why argue about your definition of the word?

Hey, it appears you didn't read my posts clearly enough, you have misinterpreted some fundamental points, and straight up ignored or overlooked others. I try to always assume good faith, but I would also expect, a less hostile, more respectful tone from a moderator. Its a little disappointing as I've only had positive interactions with you in the past. It feels like maybe you are a bit too emotionally invested in this topic? or maybe I am just misinterpreting your tone.

I really don't want to continue arguing about this, I've informed and double checked my understanding of a generator using multiple external sources. Do a bit of research on your own, if you still disagree, we can continue.


You ask:

Why argue about your definition of the word?

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This is my main point of frustration with continuing this discussion first with alfaeric, now with you. I want to be very clear IT IS NOT MY DEFINITION and I wouldn't trust myself to define the term. I have referenced multiple sources.

you state that a battery is just a storage device for energy... sounds like a gas tank to me.

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Yes. Neither of which are generators. I don't know the point you are tying to make, but I have already stated the similarity between batteries and gas.

you state that a “solar generator” is just a battery, with an inverter to convert the battery to voltage you can use... sounds like a generator to me.

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The voltage is usable with or without the inverter. The battery is only capable of releasing stored energy without access to electrical energy. A device dependent on being fed electricity in order to continuously output electricity is not a generator. You misunderstand what a generator is.

Generators take a non-electrical energy source (mechanical energy) and create electrical energy. Plugging your solar "generator" into the wall, or into a solar panel does not make it a generator, as the generation happens upstream of it.

you then state a generator will continually output electricity... only if connected to a constant source of fuel... like solar power?

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Yes, now tell me, what is the only component of this system capable of taking a non-electrical energy source as an input, and outputs electricity? SOLAR PANELS.

PV panels are not an energy source and not equivalent to gas or other consumable fuels, they are the device in your system that converts light energy to electrical energy. This (PV panels) is conceptually similar to a generator, and the closest thing in this comparison to a generator, but 'solar generators' from what everyone is saying, don't include PV panels.

Or are you comparing a generator like from a power plant, that is powered as long as water runs through the turbine?

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Its not an either/or. A hydro plant harnesses mechanical energy from water, A wind turbine harnesses mechanical energy from wind, An automotive generator (alternator) harnesses mechanical energy from gas/diesel/lpg (or possibly human power, or a slope), A portable generator works mostly the same way as an automotive generator (and is also human powered in some cases), A bicycle generator or handcrank generator operates on the same principle, as does a steam powered turbine, the generator on a hybrid electric bike that recharges the batteries from mechanical energy, etc, etc. The generator in all situations is taking mechanical energy and converting it to electrical energy. A point that we haven't really touched on is that generators are rather agnostic when it comes to what the source of that mechanical energy is. What we commonly call a gas generator, isn't reliant on gas, many people convert to propane, but the generator would be happy enough with any other source of mechanical energy.

When a consumer goes to the store to buy a generator what do you think they want to buy?

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A device to provide electricity when the grid is down, possibly for days or weeks. A device to power tools and air compressors on a jobsite. A device for their RV or boat to power recharge their batteries or provide power when the solar panels aren't producing and the vehicle alternator/generator isn't running. The main benefit of a generator over a battery, and something that people expect from a generator, is that it can keep supplying electricity when the grid is down as long as it is provided with an energy source. This doesn't make a 'power station' or battery backup less useful, it just serves a slightly different purpose. It stores energy, and works for short term power outages, but without a way to sustainably generate electricity independently (like a generator or PV panels), its only a short term solution.

I am sure there are a lot of consumers that are content with a short term battery backup, that can keep their devices charged if the power goes out for 12 hours. I'm sure there are also a lot of consumers that would be pretty pissed off if they came in asking for a generator and find out down the road that the thing they got sold as a generator will provide a few hours or days of power but has no ability to actually generate anything without being connected to something that can actually generate electricity. Especially when you consider that almost no AIO solar generators can handle the loads people would expect even a small generator to handle, let alone supply power to a household (source, Will's site and this site).

You ask why argue about a word, I would ask you why you are so invested in defending such a misleading and incorrect usage of a term. There is no definition of generator I can find (technical or colloquial) that includes a battery, or battery+inverter/converter to be a generator. I truly can't understand (other than the fact that you sell and maybe own one)(edit: this adds to the deteriorating tone of this exchange, its not fair to make assumptions, I apologize) why you would be so invested in defending the term when it is so clearly misleading and technically incorrect. I have no problem with the concept of a power station, they are useful and practical, I own a handful of small power banks (which are conceptually the same) but its a disservice to everyone to pretend they something that they are clearly not.

Will has stated in his videos the term is here to stay. Just deal with it.

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"just deal with it" seems like a rather stubborn and cynical outlook. Terms matter, language matters.

Of the 6 products described as 'Solar generators' on Will's website most have already transitioned away from that marketing term:

• 3 (Bluetti, Goal Zero, Ecoflow Delta) have transitioned to the more appropriate term power station
• 1 (Renogy) calls itself a solar generator but can do so honestly as the solar panels are integrated into the aio unit
• 1 (Jackery) calls itself a 'portable power station' and solar ready generator
• 1 (expert power Omega) Calls itself a portable lithium ion generator

So it appears the industry is already moving away from that misleading marketing term.

Some references:

Wikipedia:
In electricity generation, a generator is a device that converts motive power into electrical power for use in an external circuit. Sources of mechanical energy include steam turbines, gas turbines, water turbines, internal combustion engines, wind turbines and even hand cranks.

ElectricianApprenticeHQ:
Generator – A device that converts mechanical energy to electrical energy for use in an external circuit. The source of mechanical energy may vary widely from a hand crank to an internal combustion engine. Generators provide nearly all of the power for electric power grids.

Open electrical Info, OpenEI.org (a project of the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and the Department of Energy):
A device for converting mechanical energy to electrical energy. Note: The EIA defines "electric generator" as a facility rather than as a device; per the EIA definition, examples include electric utilities and independent power producers.

Electrial-Equipment.org (an electrical engineering blog):
Electric Generator is a machine that converts mechanical energy to electric energy. The mechanical energy can be supplied by the prime mover which combustion engine, steam engine, can water falling through turbine or even an electric motor or any such mechanism that can be a source of mechanical energy.

And some info on the operation of modern traditional fossil fuel powered generators GeneratorSource.com

As long as one understands what stuff does, does it really matter what it's called?

Of all of the confusions I see around solar power and storage systems, the name is the least of the issues. Units are far more confusing, based on posts that I've seen in my short time on this board.

alfaeric said:

As long as one understands what stuff does, does it really matter what it's called?

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As someone who has far exceeded 50% DOD on my meat sack, I have a problem with names that place unnecessary cognitive load on me.
Solar generator doesn't even register as irritating.
Kubernetes and Google+ however are on the other end of the spectrum.

Dzl said:

Some references:

Wikipedia:
In electricity generation, a generator is a device that converts motive power into electrical power for use in an external circuit. Sources of mechanical energy include steam turbines, gas turbines, water turbines, internal combustion engines, wind turbines and even hand cranks.

ElectricianApprenticeHQ:
Generator – A device that converts mechanical energy to electrical energy for use in an external circuit. The source of mechanical energy may vary widely from a hand crank to an internal combustion engine. Generators provide nearly all of the power for electric power grids.

Open electrical Info, OpenEI.org (a project of the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and the Department of Energy):
A device for converting mechanical energy to electrical energy. Note: The EIA defines "electric generator" as a facility rather than as a device; per the EIA definition, examples include electric utilities and independent power producers.

Electrial-Equipment.org (an electrical engineering blog):
Electric Generator is a machine that converts mechanical energy to electric energy. The mechanical energy can be supplied by the prime mover which combustion engine, steam engine, can water falling through turbine or even an electric motor or any such mechanism that can be a source of mechanical energy.

And some info on the operation of modern traditional fossil fuel powered generators GeneratorSource.com

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A fair and well constructed argument.

I believe the industry moving away from the term is due to arguments about the term.

please don’t take any thing I say in a thread as being moderator centric. The moderator portion of my participation of this forum is only for solving complaints, and dealing with spam. I would NEVER use my moderator status to win a discussion in this forum. No member should fear discussing with me or any moderator.

I agree there doesn’t seem to be a definition for the word generator that covers what consumers buy in the store.
99% of people when asked if they have a generator at home will answer based on having a device at home they can start or turn on to keep their freezer of lights on when the power goes out.

those 99% would consider a gasoline/propane device, and a “solar generator” device to be the same. The solar device would be preferred due to silent operation.

a fueled generator has an alternator on it to produce AC power to run their appliances...

A solar powered generator has an inverter in it to produce AC power to run their appliances.
Neither device IS a generator.
but hardly any denim pants worn today are LEVIs...
marketing terms are different from mechanical definitions. What matters to marketing is the generalized acceptance.
many gasoline generators use an inverter to produce clean smooth AC power...

Bob142 said:

Great discussion! I've always viewed it as just a marketing colloquialism. If you want people to buy your solar panel and battery based device instead of a gas generator, you call it a generator because that's what the public is familiar with.

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Me to I sort of feel its like any other "low-infomation" name used by "Marketing" and then the "vlugar" ppl presume that name for the thing.

gen·er·a·tor /ˈjenəˌrādər/ noun: generator; plural noun: generators

1. a person or thing that generates something.
Computing: a routine that constructs other routines or subroutines using given parameters, for specific applications.
"a report generator"
Mathematics: a point, line, or surface regarded as moving and so notionally forming a line, surface, or solid.
2a. a dynamo or similar machine for converting mechanical energy into electricity.
2b. an apparatus for producing gas, steam, or another substance.

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I tend to think of 2a. when it applies to electricity (converting mechanical energy into electricity - generally by the effects of magnetism)
Rather than 2b. aka steam generator, and to me "solar generator" would be some sort of thing that "generates Solar" which means "the sun" is a "Solar generator"

I have rather many of items like this in my life where some more exacting "technical" term gets picked up by "Marketing" or "News reporting" and used without real understanding of the meaning. This meaning is picked up by "the vulgar" who assume the meaning rather than researching the actual meaning thus turning the "new less specific meaning" into a colloquialism.

("Vulgar" which means "plebeian", "commoner" , "great unwashed masses" etc. rather than "obscene" which it has come to mean overtime. It is supposed that this occurred because the "common people" (ie. "vulgar") over heard the "gentry/educated" use the term when a child was using less than optimum vocabulary and admonished "don't be Vulgar" )

[another example: "Hacker" as referred to originally in "computer science" terms meant an especially talented "expert" - news reporting has turned it into one who "breaks in to computer systems"]

Electric Night said:

Me to I sort of feel its like any other "low-infomation" name used by "Marketing" and then the "vlugar" ppl presume that name for the thing.

I tend to think of 2a. when it applies to electricity (converting mechanical energy into electricity - generally by the effects of magnetism)
Rather than 2b. aka steam generator, and to me "solar generator" would be some sort of thing that "generates Solar" which means "the sun" is a "Solar generator"




[another example: "Hacker" as referred to originally in "computer science" terms meant an especially talented "expert" - news reporting has turned it into one who "breaks in to computer systems"]

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Oh, I agree... the word solar shouldn’t be needed on the device. It is a box for plugging in appliances when you need AC power... a generator.
It needs some way to fill the tank. Solar panels will, a windmill will, the power company will... or a gasoline gentperator will...

I should say out of this...

I refuse to 'Dumb Down' people around me, but I don't hammer on things.
I simply see if the people I'm dealing with ask about or pick up on the terminology.
Some people simply have no interest in 'Correct' terminology, what they are doing is a one time thing and they aren't going to use the vocabulary past that point.
*IF* you want to represent yourself well (on something like a solar DIY Forum ) you might want to at least try to pick up the terminology...

Motor & Engine is an example.
There is a starter MOTOR hanging on the side of an internal combustion ENGINE.
Engines are not self starting and require fuel feed.
Motors are self starting (air, hydraulic, electric etc) and are direct energy fed.

Bullet & Cartridge is an example.

Of the topic at hand, this is NOT a generator, it makes no power on it's own.
It might have a charger, inverter, but it's a battery with support gear.
Advertising calls it a 'Generator' to dumb down the general public, which is fine if you want to be dumbed down by an advertising department that didn't understand the product to start with.
A one time purchase and you use the advertised name, that's fine.

A more accurate name might be 'Rechargable Power Pack' because that's what it is.
It's portable, commonly useable power you can recharge easily.

It's like calling a starter drive gear a 'Bendix',
Bendix being the patent holding manufacturer for about 30 years as electric starters evolved, every drive gear box had 'Bendix' splashed across it, so 'Common Useage' became 'Bendix'.

Another example is a 'Condenser' in a vehicle ignition system, which is actually an electrical capacitor.
This is so common the capacitor is actually called a 'Condenser' in manuafctuters diagrams, part number listings, etc.

An example here is saying 'Batteries' that are wired together.
Any, and all strings of STORAGE CELLS wired together, into a system is one (singular) "Battery" no matter how many cases they are contained in...

When CELLS are connected they are "In Battery" (ready to use).
Another term you might see is "En Banc" the French version of In Battery and ready for service, active or not.

A string of wired cells removed from an active In Battery Bank is a singular Battery, no matter how many cells.
As soon as it's hooked back up it's no longer THE BATTERY, but IN BATTERY.

This gets REALLY confusing for novices, so I don't beat them up over it, instead trying to use the correct terminology, and using brackets for an explanation behind the correct terminology.
Example, Amps per Hour (Ah) or Watts Per Hour (Wh),
Or use 12Vdc (12 Volts DC) or 120Vac (120 Volts AC).
I'm sure it's not perfect, but it gently nudges the newbies towards correct terminology without beating them up about it...

Sometimes I totally screw it up,... So be it, I'm human, crap happens...
I figure they aren't paying anything for the advise/education, so it's worth what they paid for it.

We have more than a few 'Experts' that spout Imp, Vmp, Voc like it's common launguage with no explanation at all...
I guess they are too 'Educated' to use Resistance, Volts & Amps and can't be bothered to explain anything, requiring the newbies to learn an entirely new technical launguage before they will help with anything at all.
(One of my pet peeves is ego driven bullies...).

If you can't speak/write without being a jerk...
Then your 'Education' was sadly lacking in more areas than one.

Supervstech said:

A solar powered generator has an inverter in it to produce AC power to run their appliances.
Neither device IS a generator.
but hardly any denim pants worn today are LEVIs...
marketing terms are different from mechanical definitions. What matters to marketing is the generalized acceptance.
many gasoline generators use an inverter to produce clean smooth AC power...

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And that is why "Marketing" "sucks"!

From my point of view this "Forum" is meant to be an information source so using the terminology correctly is rather important.
Presently there are other similar things that irk me about this type of thing for example:

"This CFL bulb is the same as a 100 watt bulb but uses only 20 watts"
and "This LED "bulb" is the same as a 100 watt bulb but only uses 12 watts"

In that case the "Marketing" tries to convey the amount of luminous intensity (candela) [ or the derived values of lumen (lm = cd sr "luminous flux") or lux ( lx = cd sr m−2 lm/m2 "illuminance")*] by indicating the amount of electrical power consumed and converted to phonic energy. [ok given they are representing it in the SI system of units rather than "Candles" or "Candle Power"]

This happens with the term "inductance" ("inductive reactance") and "resistance" also by ppl who probably should know better.

* SI Units 9th edition 2019
and a Watt is "power, radiant flux" W = kg m2 s−3 which a derived value of Joules/second

Electric Night said:

And that is why "Marketing" "sucks"!

From my point of view this "Forum" is meant to be an information source so using the terminology correctly is rather important.
Presently there are other similar things that irk me about this type of thing for example:

"This CFL bulb is the same as a 100 watt bulb but uses only 20 watts"
and "This LED "bulb" is the same as a 100 watt bulb but only uses 12 watts"

In that case the "Marketing" tries to convey the amount of luminous intensity (candela) [ or the derived values of lumen (lm = cd sr "luminous flux") or lux ( lx = cd sr m−2 lm/m2 "illuminance")*] by indicating the amount of electrical power consumed and converted to phonic energy. [ok given they are representing it in the SI system of units rather than "Candles" or "Candle Power"]

This happens with the term "inductance" ("inductive reactance") and "resistance" also by ppl who probably should know better.

* SI Units 9th edition 2019
and a Watt is "power, radiant flux" W = kg m2 s−3 which a derived value of Joules/second

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I am an electrician, and I see the lx output, and customers ask for 100watt bulbs, yup, they of course mean “equivalent” to 100Watts... as it is a nigh impossibility they actually want 100Watt LED fixtures! I install THOSE in parking lots!

Supervstech said:

Oh, I agree... the word solar shouldn’t be needed on the device. It is a box for plugging in appliances when you need AC power... a generator.
It needs some way to fill the tank. Solar panels will, a windmill will, the power company will... or a gasoline gentperator will...

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I still think you are missing the point of what a generator is (technically speaking, but also in spirit/concept). A battery/power bank and a generator are both things that people expect to be able to get electricity from. But the difference is people expect a generator to provide electricity indefinitely given a fuel source/energy source, while people understand a battery (and should understand that a "solar generator") can only provide the stored energy it contains unless hooked up to solar panels which will generate electricity and pass it to the solar generator for storage and delivery.

I don't think it is just semantics to make this distinction anymore than it is semantics to make a distinction between energy and electricity or watts and watt hours, or batteries and solar panels.

To illustrate why I think its an important distinction, here are a few of the common use-cases for generators where a power station falls short.

I live in an area where its common for people to have to rely on generator power for a week or sometimes more, usually in the summer, to power their homes. They need a generator, most rely on a traditional generator capable of generating continuous electricity for as long as they can provide an alternative energy source (gas, propane, etc). A power station (solar 'generator'), serves a different (useful) purpose and would not meet this very typical use case of a generator. Theoretically it could, if they installed a couple thousand Kw of solar panels on their property and sized their battery bank and inverter according to their electrical needs, but that is what we all call an off-grid solar system.

Another typical use of a traditional generator is powering air compressors and tools on a jobsite. The limited capacity of a solar generator wouldn't cut it.

RV'ers and vandwellers using generators to recharge their batteries, or power high watt loads like Air Conditioning and microwaves. RV'ers already have all the typical components of a "solar generator" (batteries, inverter, 12v outlets) and many already have solar. Now personally, I hate traditional generators in this context and I wish RV'ers would transition away from them. But at least when it comes to air conditioning, this is not practical even with battery banks much larger than a typical solar 'generator.' A solar 'generator' would do nothing more than marginally increase their battery capacity.

There are certainly many reasonable situations where a power station (solar 'generator) could meet the needs of someone that wouldve otherwise gone out and bought a generator. Short term power outages, or long term if all you need to power is a few gadgets, powering devices on short camping trips, or keep one in your vehicle if you are on the go a lot (a smaller power bank probably makes more sense here, but functionally its the same concept just smaller and no AC), or buy one and add a few solar panels if you want a solar setup but are intimidated by building your own with individual components. There are definitely reasonable use cases, and many which in the past would've required a generator.

I lived without electricity for 6 months when i was working overseas, I had a 13w foldable solar panel, a 10,000mah 'power bank,' and a solar lantern, I could charge my laptop at the field office every few days, but otherwise, my needs were met by that little system.

I do think its reasonable enough to market those little briefcase solar+battery+AC/DC outlets things as solar generators, even if they don't technically meet the definition and aren't capable of continuous output in the same way traditional generators are. Others might object and say even those devices shouldn't be confused with a generator, but for me, if it has the built in capability to not just store but generate electricity, I can understand the term being used.

Supervstech said:

I am an electrician, and I see the lx output, and customers ask for 100watt bulbs, yup, they of course mean “equivalent” to 100Watts... as it is a nigh impossibility they actually want 100Watt LED fixtures! I install THOSE in parking lots!

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I would pay a lot of money to see the look on their face if you followed directions and installed real 100w LED's throughout the house! That would be priceless

Dzl said:

I would pay a lot of money to see the look on their face if you followed directions and installed real 100w LED's throughout the house! That would be priceless

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The REAL eye opener would be the quote for those bulbs...

redacted