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AGM vs Flooded Operating Illogically .

aKO

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Jan 3, 2022
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I apologize in advance as this post is a bit long winded but i have tried to incorporate anything that might be relevant to the point of probable repeating myself .


Hoping someone noticed the same phenomenon with AGM batteries compared to Flooded that would explain wha I am observing . I have just installed AGM batteries to replace the Flooded ones I have become accustom to for years


My system is small but very predictable and I can almost look it the log files and know very closely what they will show me but not with these AGM batteries everything seems to defy logic .


My output during the day is always about 40-60 amps in the day and 80-100 amps at night and it used to be that the following day my panels would input 110 -120 amps into the batteries by about 1pm then another 80-110 before the sun goes do wn around 6pm .


My batteries were good quality branded ones and I have looked back an the logs takes 4years ago at the same dates when they were new to compare to what im seeing now so I have a like for like comparison . Very little has changed until a month ago when I damaged a battery and felt it would be better to replace the whole bank with Trojan AGMs .


I am now noticing these AGM batteries accept around 40-60 amp/ Hrs by 11am and then reach the voltage set point which is the only 0.2 volts less than my Flooded ones were when they go from bulk to Adsorption which then reduces over the rest of the day so I get anything up to between 120-130 amp/hrs max . I can run things that use a lot of power to increase that while in Absorption but that seems counter productive .


My new battery bank is 400 amp hours compared to the flooded ones that were 600 amp hours but as im taking the same out of then only the DOD is different . Bulk is supposed to take the batteries up to around 80% SOC but I don't see how it can be . I am still using a Morningstar TS60 PMW charge controller that I find very accurate and trust , thats not changed .


I know AGM Batteries have less resistance so accept a charge easier which might explain why the voltages increase to the set point so much sooner but that appears to be a handicap not an advantage as stopping all the charge going into the batteries far to soon cant be achieving what is good charging practice of having Bulk not end until approx 80% charged .


I look at the voltage when we retire and turn off around 250 watts of consumption and watch voltage rise from about 24.5 to 25.75 and check in the morning and voltage has gone down slowly over the 8 hours to around 24.4 from the constant 65 Watts draw on things we cant turn off and al that seems acceptable but comparing the input to the consumption we are always short a few hundred watts and I have no reason to believe the TS60 or my Inverter is giving me false readings as I have tried various experiments to confirm there accuracy .


I would be so grateful if anyone could offer an explanation to put my mind at rest
 
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One thing is new battery’s act funny until they get some age on them .
Then agm absorb more power faster then flood battery’s .
I use about 3500watts a day but it takes 4500 /5000 to fill them to 100% .
 
the constant 65 amps current draw on things we cant turn off
new battery bank is 400 amp hours compared to the flooded ones that were 600 amp hours but as im taking the same out of then only the DOD is different
Because of peukert and other weird chemical things your 65A steady load has more impact on the batteries
Plus you reduced capacity.

Now, instead of 65A being ~10% of capacity it is almost 20% of fully charged capacity.

I’m not an AGM fan but no matter: you reduced Ah capacity by a third so you in essence increased constant load by double. I think that’s probably a lot of it. Plus, 400Ah rated is 200Ah usable. From that perspective the 600Ah which is actually 300Ah usable it’s more like 20% and 40% reduction.

I’m sure others can elaborate better.
 
Sorry 12Voltinstal , i should have typed 65 Watts not 65 amps so im not sure if 65 Wats would have much effect . I understand the point you make , the SOD is the same on both battery banks however the Percentage of Discharge has increased so the only concern being the night time usage the 100 amp hours would represent less than 17% on the Flooded batteries but now 25% with the AGMs
 
100 amp hours would represent less than 17% on the Flooded batteries but now 25% with the AGMs
Is that factored for 12.1V being 100% usable discharged? (50% depth of discharge is 100%!empty! for lead acid batteries.)

80-109W is what I do overnight for the fridge and furnace. But I’m in Vermont so cold makes the batteries sluggish and talk with slurred speech.
 
Is that factored for 12.1V being 100% usable discharged? (50% depth of discharge is 100%!empty! for lead acid batteries.)

80-109W is what I do overnight for the fridge and furnace. But I’m in Vermont so cold makes the batteries sluggish and talk with slurred speech.
Not sure i understand the question or the part about 12.1v being 100% usable discharge , i thought the either Flooded or AGM the DOD would be almost the same .

The battery bank is 4x6v as i have a 24 volt system . Trojan give 24.45 as 50% depth of discharge and is the recommend figure to aim for .

The 65 watt consumption is our Internet , UPS , clock Radio , Inverters self consumption and a Laptop i keep connected to the Charge controller that i can access via the Internet . Fridge and freezer turn off as Input charge ends and comes on again when it resumes charging .Very sunny in the day but cold at nights here at the moment in Spain so its a god time to get to understand everything while playing it safe with consumption .
 
12.1v being 100% usable discharge , i thought the either Flooded or AGM the DOD would be almost the same .

The battery bank is 4x6v as i have a 24 volt system . Trojan give 24.45 as 50% depth of discharge and is the recommend figure to aim for .
So yes, use the 24.45 discharge floor voltage

My point I didn’t explain well is that your max use is 50% of labeled amp-hours, so your percentages need to reflect that
 
I have discovered that the end amps for Trojan to be 100% full is 0.05% of C20 which is 1.85 volts , done it a couple of times by turning off inverters about 20 mins before i know Charging time will end so theres no output only input for that time but mostly sticks around 2.8 volts 0.75% so getting close .

Daily input still around 130 amp/hrs , only 2/3 of what the the Flooded ones allowed in but the overall performance and and DOD by early morning just before the charging period starts is comparable .
 
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