diy solar

diy solar

Where is @Will Prowse?

You are not going to get `1800 amps thru a LiFePO4 BMS, even if it uses external relays.
Lead Acid Engine Starting batteries are highly specialized battteries developed over years for that high amp draw of an engine starter. LiFePO4 batteries cannot compare to that ampacity spec. They are a deep cycle battery. different bird.
If you see my last post, I was talking about lithium titanate, rated for much higher C rates.

1800CCA is different from actual current draw, hence why I wanted to measure current draw. Actual current required might be under 8-900a.

Lithium titanate also doesn't suffer low/high temps like LiFEPo4 either.
 
You are not going to get `1800 amps thru a LiFePO4 BMS, even if it uses external relays.
Lead Acid Engine Starting batteries are highly specialized battteries developed over years for that high amp draw of an engine starter. LiFePO4 batteries cannot compare to that ampacity spec. They are a deep cycle battery. different bird.
It is a VERY rare engine that pulls anywhere close to 800A… most gasoline engines are in the 150-300 range. Most diesels are in the 350 to 600 range. My huge v8 IDI high compression navstar diesel takes around 550 so I doubt any exceed that often… what is needed is low fade high duration cranking. The ability to sustain cranking long enough to build heat to start a big diesel. Load the glow system up, AND run the starter. It’s a tough chore for many batteries. Lithium easily handles the capacity and duration, but cannot handle the amperage, THROUGH a BMS. High C rate lithiums can do it. Most LFP cells are rated at 2C max. With a 280Ah cell that’s over 500A, plenty for most starting. Headways are good for 10C, so easily handle the amperage, just not through a BMS. And only LTO can handle much cold weather charging…
 
It is a VERY rare engine that pulls anywhere close to 800A… most gasoline engines are in the 150-300 range. Most diesels are in the 350 to 600 range. My huge v8 IDI high compression navstar diesel takes around 550 so I doubt any exceed that often… what is needed is low fade high duration cranking. The ability to sustain cranking long enough to build heat to start a big diesel. Load the glow system up, AND run the starter. It’s a tough chore for many batteries. Lithium easily handles the capacity and duration, but cannot handle the amperage, THROUGH a BMS. High C rate lithiums can do it. Most LFP cells are rated at 2C max. With a 280Ah cell that’s over 500A, plenty for most starting. Headways are good for 10C, so easily handle the amperage, just not through a BMS. And only LTO can handle much cold weather charging…
I have an old 7.3 powerstroke, im in the same boat as you. I know the glow plug system draws 300a alone, which is a chore itself! Unfortunately my clamp meter only reads to 400a, so I won't be able to find out.
 
300A ... didn't realize it was so much, but I'm finding references to about 25A per plug, 200A for eight.




I have GMC K2500 with 6.5 turbodiesel.
I should check it next time with clamp ammeter.

"draws 300a alone"

You use glow plugs alone, then after they shut off use starter alone, correct? So never both at once?

I would have thought 4x 280 Ah could deliver several "C" for seconds or minutes, or for a big engine 2p4s with 560 Ah.

I'm still thinking of putting battery & inverter in my truck. Might do a cheaper 12V system (rather than 48V). I would want to have self jump-start capability. K2500 is supposed to have 2x 800 CCA batteries in parallel. I've used 700 Ah Optimas, now Oddessy. My hope is 280 Ah LiFePO4 could start it if needed. Would think even if that is abusive, would be OK for occasional use (unlike your replacement plan.)

Obviously you would connect starter bypassing BMS. BMS could disable solenoid at low battery.
But you need to prevent high voltage disconnect which would blow alternator diodes. What you might do instead is shut off regulator (easier said than done for internal regulator.)
 
300A ... didn't realize it was so much, but I'm finding references to about 25A per plug, 200A for eight.




I have GMC K2500 with 6.5 turbodiesel.
I should check it next time with clamp ammeter.

"draws 300a alone"

You use glow plugs alone, then after they shut off use starter alone, correct? So never both at once?

I would have thought 4x 280 Ah could deliver several "C" for seconds or minutes, or for a big engine 2p4s with 560 Ah.

I'm still thinking of putting battery & inverter in my truck. Might do a cheaper 12V system (rather than 48V). I would want to have self jump-start capability. K2500 is supposed to have 2x 800 CCA batteries in parallel. I've used 700 Ah Optimas, now Oddessy. My hope is 280 Ah LiFePO4 could start it if needed. Would think even if that is abusive, would be OK for occasional use (unlike your replacement plan.)

Obviously you would connect starter bypassing BMS. BMS could disable solenoid at low battery.
But you need to prevent high voltage disconnect which would blow alternator diodes. What you might do instead is shut off regulator (easier said than done for internal regulator.)
Most diesels have a glow time, then a start sequence.
Many operate the glow, then during cranking the glow continues.
Especially the modern DI diesels with their intake heaters...
 
Yes the 7.3 Powerstroke runs the glow plugs for a duration of time based on intake temperatures and oil temperatures. Once the key is on, the glow plugs are running for anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 minutes, while cranking or running not. The time duration is shorter or longer dependent on temperatures.

With it being a 25 year old truck, I imagine that older wires and higher resistances adds to the current draw. What might be 25a at the glow plug, could be 30a at the battery right?

Idk what mine are for sure, but thats definitely something I can check! I'll try and measure it tomorrow morning when its nice and cold.

As for the alternator, I wonder if separating the alternator from the rest of the vehicle entirely? Just run a dedicated 12v to 12v charger to the battery from the alternator, then all the loads run off the battery terminals, and like suggested above, bypass the BMS for the starter only. This reduces the need for an overly large BMS for the starter, charges the battery like it should, and requires no physical modification to hardware.
 
My 95 suburban diesel works when I remember to trigger the glow plugs.
all Mercedes diesels crank up with varying degrees of success in cool weather.
 
''''''''''''''''''''

With it being a 25 year old truck, I imagine that older wires and higher resistances adds to the current draw. What might be 25a at the glow plug, could be 30a at the battery right?

.................
Current into a circuit equals return current to the source.
25 amps in causes 25 amp return. A circuit cannot create current.
 
Current into a circuit equals return current to the source.
25 amps in causes 25 amp return. A circuit cannot create current.
... but bad connections and such certainly can increase resistance which would increase current...
 
Exactly. Resistance builds up heat which is expelled through connections and through wire. Does the heat just magically appear?

With it being a 25 year old truck, I imagine that older wires and higher resistances adds to the current draw. What might be 25a at the glow plug, could be 30a at the battery right?

Bad connections can make the current go down due to higher resistance, but the current will always be the same at all points in the circuit.

.. but bad connections and such certainly can increase resistance which would increase current...
In order for the current to increase due to a bad connection the Voltage at the source would have to increase..

1666824473824.png

  • The current in the circuit will always be the same at all points in the circuit.
  • The current in the circuit can be calculated as the Voltage of the power source divided by the sum of all resistance in the circuit.
  • The voltage drop across the various resistance points in a circuit will always add up to the voltage of the power supply
  • The power being provided by the Power Supply will be the same as the sum of the power dissipated at each resistance point

  • If the resistance in a connection goes up, the current in the circuit will go down because the total resistance of the circuit went up (I = V/R),
  • If the resistance in a connection goes up, the voltage drop at the connection will go up and the power dissipated at the connection will go up. Note that when the voltage at the connection goes up, the voltage at the load must go down. (This is assuming everything else, likw Vs, stays the same)

The above statements are for DC. AC is more complicated but at a first approximation, it is the same.
 
Bad connections can make the current go down due to higher resistance, but the current will always be the same at all points in the circuit.


In order for the current to increase due to a bad connection the Voltage at the source would have to increase..

View attachment 117967

  • The current in the circuit will always be the same at all points in the circuit.
  • The current in the circuit can be calculated as the Voltage of the power source divided by the sum of all resistance in the circuit.
  • The voltage drop across the various resistance points in a circuit will always add up to the voltage of the power supply
  • The power being provided by the Power Supply will be the same as the sum of the power dissipated at each resistance point

  • If the resistance in a connection goes up, the current in the circuit will go down because the total resistance of the circuit went up (I = V/R),
  • If the resistance in a connection goes up, the voltage drop at the connection will go up and the power dissipated at the connection will go up. Note that when the voltage at the connection goes up, the voltage at the load must go down. (This is assuming everything else, likw Vs, stays the same)

The above statements are for DC. AC is more complicated but at a first approximation, it is the same.
Learn something new every day!
 
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