That is is a terrible increase in taxes I was frustrated with the $600. The town near us has gone crazy on property taxes. They pay more than almost 3x for the same value.
States/Cities Attempting To Limit You Self Produced Power...
- Thread starter JeepHammer
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Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
No that is often called taxation. It may be looking like Socialism in terms of appearing like wealth distribution. My definition of Communism is government ownership and control of land like we see in China today.
EastTexCowboy
Solar Wizard
Yeah, I agree. The thing is they don't really care. As a friend of mine was told at a protest hearing a few years ago, "If you don't like it, move."
Well thats the problem with how they worded it.
It is meant to effect the ones selling power back to the grid but they worded it so it could effect people that use power from the grid in a hybrid setup. True offgrid isnt effected. I don't have a problem with it effecting those wanting to feed to the grid. They have to take into account for that but they need to word it to that effect to keep from effecting others.
There is a federal lawsuit against the power company and the state on this one right now. Hope they win.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
California passed property tax reform fifty years ago and the State had to compensate by increasing income taxes. Several of my friends have moved to Texas from California. If enough people move from California maybe they will try to reform the property tax system the same way with the same result of long term increasing income taxes. It is just trading one form of taxation for another.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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It's a good way of discriminating against the riff raff and keeping them out. If you can't afford it, you aren't wanted there, pauper!
JeepHammer
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I believe so...
Local power grids are WAY more economical, less prone to damage/outtages, have WAY less power losses...
And let's face it, we have reached the point where this stuff is almost 'Plug & Play'.
Around 2000 the government/military had a study done, the military/DOD listened to the experts and started local sustainable power grids. Wind, solar, even a chicken shit/methane bio reactor in Delaware since they raise so much poultry...
I grew up (and still live in) coal country. The shallow coal, that nature spent millions of years washing many of the contaminants out of... Is just flat gone.
What's left is dirty, deep, dangerous and expensive to extract. The previous transportation system, barges on rivers that are half dry now, rail cars on tracks the train companies refuse to maintain/upgrade, trucks that diesel fuel has topped $5 a gallon, and is still $4 a gallon in many places, the cost of trucks, trailers, taxes, insurance, etc has priced that transportation too high...
And thats before you consider how corrosive coal is to the power plants requiring rebuilds often, the exhaust pipe pollution, the fly ash disposal after coal burned...
No wonder power plants have switched to methane pipelines that deliver 24/7/365 without complaints, derailments, disposal fees, longer life on the generation equipment, etc. It's really a no-brainer if you want to increase business profits...
Coal is dying a slow, but unnatural death since politicians are involved. If it was actually free market, it would be dead already.
These HUGE power grids are rapidly becoming unsustainable because of the resources required to build/maintain them and the increasing cost of those resources/finished products. Frankly put, they are no longer the ONLY game in town, the ONLY choice, and the ONLY way not to sit in the cold & dark.
As charge density increases in new battery technology, you can already power a reasonable size home off something the size of a large coffee table, this lop-sided disconnect in logic will get worse.
If CATL and a couple other makers are truthful, they just doubled charge density, that's literally a complete game changer. Not in production yet, but it's supposed to be coming... (I'm not holding my breath, but I'm hopeful)
Here is something interesting if you like battery porn...
The Age of Silicon Is Here…for Batteries
The mainstay material of electronics is now yielding better energy storage
spectrum.ieee.org
Tulex
Solar Wizard
They just went through all the towns in my county in upstate NY. My assessment went up 27%, and that's after just being assessed at double the previous amount from when we bought the property 5 years ago.
Thats one nice thing about Alabama the property taxes are cheap.
Ive got one house that is $8 a year
JeepHammer
Solar Wizard
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And why I refuse to discuss politics with most people, lack of understanding/education... Takes too much time correcting the basics/educating then trying to get the person to update the 'Opinion' on the new, correct information.
No shade on the other person, this is America and they can 'Believe' whatever they want, but that doesn't make it fact... And it takes WAY too much of my time to try and straighten things out.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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In california, solar power is exempt from property tax assessment.
If they get away with this, they are taxing the real property (PV panels on roof) but giving the money to utilities.
Whether that flies will depend on court's interpretation.
But the bigger hit is on the wealthier and property-rich. Which the state needs for revenue.
Businesses and retirees can move. Real estate can't; maybe if prices were depressed the tax revenues would suffer, but climate and desirability keeps prices up.
Don't think it has anything to do with backfeed. Rather, avoided usage of the grid most of the time. Their reasonable claim is that we still use the grid occasionally, when PV doesn't produce. To the extent we use it each night, we are using the grid and paying for it when otherwise idle, actually reducing their costs (doesn't require added capacity like daytime usage.) To the extent we use it during storms, true that we are getting a free ride. That's why "demand charge" based on peak could be appropriate.
Whether my PV is backfeed, zero-export, or separate off-grid system, it is still meeting my needs when PV is sufficient, and I'll use the grid when it isn't.
Well there is a problem with that. I have multiple properties and some have solar and some don't.
The properties that don't have solar but no one lives there have a $20 a month power bill. So I pay $20 a month for the privilege to have power there.
Sounds like that is all they need to me.
The house with solar and the $20 a month bill because it doesnt use power and the one that simply just doesn't use power and is $20 a month too is the same.
So what purpose does a tax on the one with solar serve? Other than to rip folks off it would seem.
That reform helps protect people from wild tax increases per year, however if you go out and buy a new home, you now have that new annual tax value, and now your rate of increased tax protection begins again from that point. Back in 08 they were slow to make corrections the other way so I had to get their attention for a correction.
The state is now busy trying to find revenue by fines on small businesses. I know of several that had enough. The big stores are leaving too. My son almost got mowed over by a cart full of stolen goods out of a Home Depot. Soon the state will have only dependents and no revenue streams. Instead of enticing, they’re chasing productive people away. Exit tax….really? Shows the mindset.
cs1234
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Yes, it charges more to the wealthy and property rich. Some of them won't like it and leave. But, if it's a desirable area, which parts of California most certainly are, people from other places will fill the void left by the rich property owners that leave. Somebody purchased their property when they left, assuming residential real estate, and those new people are likely to be down with the political environment in California more so than the people that sold and left, at least for a little while.
States like Texas and Florida are doing it as well, through the laws they pass, but on the opposite spectrum, hoping to attract more like minded people to their states.
Whether California, Texas, Florida, etc.. are doing it on purpose or not, I really can't say. It could just be an unintended feature of their actions.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
That is a national trend that has impacted retail across the country.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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I run a small business in Texas. I could give you many stories of fines and audits done by the state against me. It's not a California thing, it's a big guy vs little guy thing. They can get away with it, so they do. They give money and tax breaks to the large powerful corporations, and turd all over the little ones. I understand my role as a peasant and I'm happy to be alive in this day and age vs olden times, but man does it chap my hide sometimes.
SignatureSolarJames
Try Solar, the Grid will always take you back
Welp, I doubt we all agree about politics here but the cool thing is the denominator that I think we all share is a value for freedom and the conviction that it is worth getting your hands dirty to have.
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EastTexCowboy
Solar Wizard
Although we have relatively high property taxes, Texas doesn't have an income tax. So it all depends on your situation, how much property you own, how much taxable income you have, etc. The last several years of being in business before I semi-retired I came out way ahead on this method. But over the course of my life it would probably be pretty close to even.
There's a quote that is attributed to John Dillinger when asked why he robbed banks. He said, "Because that's where the money is." Same thing on taxes. It takes tax money to run the machine and not much of it is going to come from people who have little or no money. I'd be happier if there wasn't so much government waste but I've worked with a lot of government entities and seen up close how their finances work, and it's almost impossible to curb the waste. It's the nature of the beast.
One thing for sure. Every time a new regulation is added it creates a need for more government employees to monitor, enforce, and document everything. It's self-perpetuating and can only get worse.
cs1234
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Everything about our societies and economic systems require a growing influx of new people to prop it up. It will certainly get interesting when/if we don't have enough new people to prop it up for us anymore. Can only suck so much blood out (government or corporations), before there is no blood left to suck.
