Feast or Famine, The off grid solar dilemma.

Hedges · May 24, 2023

Mattb4 said:
Never knew such a thing existed. I have to research if there is any available in the US market. My ~28 year old 240vAC dryer is an energy hog but it does dry things (a typical load in under 40 minutes). I can not power it from my PV so it like my electric range ( almost never use it with all my countertop cookers/ovens) remain grid powered. Like others mentioned a clothes line can handle clothes dryer duties if needed.

Yes, they're in the US, several brands and multiple technologies for ventless.

I got a Bosch condensing dryer that is air-cooled, due to no vent in a rental condo. It does dump excess heat in the room (but not moisture like previous conventional one.

Washer/dryer combo, which I got second hand (Fager) and used until it stopped working, uses cold water to condense.

Then there are the heat pump. More expensive, like $1300 vs. $1000 (vs. < $500 for common brand conventional dryers.)
I would expect these to be more economical.

Make sure condensing dryers are flat. I put on a shelf which sagged, and water didn't run off to pan so didn't dry. (placed over a top loader so couldn't stack as intended.)

Ampster said:
I think the power requirements may be the same in terms of circuits and receptacles but the power consumption is a lot less for any heating task. No wasted heat because only the pan gets hot. There is no heating element that has to transfer heat to the pan, which is why induction heating is more efficient.

Anybody got inrush and power factor data or scope traces for these?
I could imagine them being nice or nasty, depending on how designed.
Makes a difference on how much inverter is needed.

OffGridInTheCity · May 24, 2023

Mattb4 said:
Just for fun here is the list of all my countertop cookers.

900w Microwave
1800w induction hot plate
1500w pizza oven
1500w convection oven air fryer
1500w George Foreman grill
Electric skillet (not sure of the wattage)
1200w Bread maker
2 slice toaster. (wattage?)
1500w countertop oven big enough to handle a 15-18 lb Turkey.

Not a cooker but for me *the* essential kitchen appliance is the K-Cup machine (1500w spikes)! I live on coffee

Mattb4 · May 24, 2023

Crowz said:
Same here but we have a waffle iron too...

Ah the Ghosts of countertop cookers past. The waffle maker, deep fat fryer and electric griddle saw much use in their time but eventually were tossed out as no longer fitting my diet or household population of 1. More dubious use cookers such as the hard boiled egg maker, Brat cooker, the rather odd clam shell toasted cheese sandwich thingy, and some weird others that elude my mind at the moment, have also come and gone.

Those are just the plug in cookers, I am not counting all the other stuff like coffee makers, blenders, slicers (it slices, it dices, it even juliennes) that populate the countertop, drawers and storage areas.

ETA: I forgot the crock pot. It has not been tossed out but it has faded into the rarely used category.

Hedges · May 24, 2023

Mattb4 said:
the rather odd clam shell toasted cheese sandwich thingy

Still got one, used it just the other day.
Makes a sealed sandwich, so you can have an egg with liquid yolk like over easy, and carry it in your hand.

EastTexCowboy · May 24, 2023

Zwy said:
I have found a larger battery bank while running smaller PV array actually works best.

The larger battery bank gets the system thru the lean periods of cloudy days, non existent PV. It's unusual to get 4 straight days without some yield.

When the sun is shining, the "excess" generated is for recharging the larger bank. Once you have a bank that can cover 4 or 5 days of minimum loads (no electric dryer-we use one, no dishwasher), then it makes it much easier. It is simple loads management.

I have yet to run my battery bank down below 30%.

Like I said, 4 to 5 days in reserve from the battery bank will get a system thru low periods of yield.

I'm close to that but I'm going to need one more rack of batteries to get me there I think. I've had one occasion where it went to bypass this year and that was after three days of rain. We didn't really scale back on usage because I wanted to see how well it performed, but I don't have the ovens or the clothes dryer on solar. I may add those eventually but it hasn't been an issue. In a jam I could move them over, but frankly I'm out of space for breakers. I'm already adding some piggyback breakers for light load circuits. I could add a subpanel to the CL panel but I'm planning on waiting for that until I upgrade the inverters, assuming that I eventually do that. Actually, who am I kidding? I know I'm going to want to upgrade inverters. Just a matter of how long I can force myself to wait.

MrM1 · May 24, 2023

Yeah I keep kidding myself that we could just do power management (and it would work) , but truth be told, I know an inverter upgrade is in my future

Nobodybusiness · May 24, 2023

upnorthandpersonal said:
Guess you have actual sun in winter! I'm used to not having daylight to speak of for about a month.

We do but it’s lower in the sky and more sporadic than the rest of the year.

I thought maybe you had some report showing it couldn’t be done or something.
You seemed sure.

Granted it’s not Finland but it does get cold.

SilverbackMP · May 24, 2023

Mattb4 said:
On the subject of using gas/propane based appliances as an off grid substitute for electrical generated from PV. I do not see that as a great option. It just shifts where your money goes to get your energy needs fulfilled. Plus there is the hassle with tanks and getting resupply.

Propane/natural gas appliances used to be the only option if you were off grid and many folks on and off grid still have them. Dryers, ranges, gas water heaters, and furnaces are conventional. Refrigerators, not so much.

Propane/NG in the US is still cheap in many locations.

As for resupply, you simply call or they show up automatically a couple a times a year.

mvonw · May 24, 2023

Mo battery. Mo betta

upnorthandpersonal · May 24, 2023

Nobodybusiness said:
I thought maybe you had some report showing it couldn’t be done or something.
You seemed sure.

My original reply was kind of in jest. Personally, I would not be able to do it, no matter how many panels I would put up, hence the 'real winter' joke attempt - which obviously failed.

SeaGal · May 25, 2023

Mattb4 said:
Just for fun here is the list of all my countertop cookers.

900w Microwave
1800w induction hot plate
1500w pizza oven
1500w convection oven air fryer
1500w George Foreman grill
Electric skillet (not sure of the wattage)
1200w Bread maker
2 slice toaster. (wattage?)
1500w countertop oven big enough to handle a 15-18 lb Turkey.

That does it... I'm coming round to yours next Christmas for the Air Fried Roasties, Turkey and that Julienne of vegetables. ??

And we'll have a feast, not a famine

SamDeleted · May 25, 2023

upnorthandpersonal said:
Guess you have actual sun in winter! I'm used to not having daylight to speak of for about a month.

It's bad enough in the UK , can't imagine living up there in dark snowy Scandinavia

SeaGal · May 25, 2023

Yes, but this time of the year he is "not-used-to-having-any-night-time-to-speak-of-for-about-a-month". So I guess it evens out. He just needs a few MWh of batteries to get through the Winter

upnorthandpersonal · May 25, 2023

SeaGal said:
Yes, but this time of the year he is "not-used-to-having-any-night-time-to-speak-of-for-about-a-month". So I guess it evens out. He just needs a few MWh of batteries to get through the Winter

Yeah

Maybe I should start a GoFundMe!

kennyb · May 25, 2023

upnorthandpersonal said:
It's the normal here in Europe. Same with washing machines.

We purchased the Bosch HP dryer recently for our new build. So many people have told me it's "too small". But in all my travels I can't say I've ever seen an "American" sized unit outside of Canada and the USA.

upnorthandpersonal · May 25, 2023

kennyb said:
We purchased the Bosch HP dryer recently for our new build. So many people have told me it's "too small". But in all my travels I can't say I've ever seen an "American" sized unit outside of Canada and the USA.

Same. I've lived in the States for a few years; I still don't understand why everything needs to be so much bigger. Even with my family of four, I've never thought "if only we had a larger washer/dryer". Or bigger house for that matter: what do you do with all that space? Never mind the energy requirements...

Mattb4 · May 25, 2023

upnorthandpersonal said:
Same. I've lived in the States for a few years; I still don't understand why everything needs to be so much bigger. Even with my family of four, I've never thought "if only we had a larger washer/dryer". Or bigger house for that matter: what do you do with all that space? Never mind the energy requirements...

Larger washer dryers are very handy when doing bedding and large clothes items. And in terms of energy doing one large load versus several small loads is likely not much difference.

I agree the ever increasing homes sizes of the last few decades (coupled with smaller families) seems like an odd thing.

SamDeleted · May 25, 2023

upnorthandpersonal said:
Same. I've lived in the States for a few years; I still don't understand why everything needs to be so much bigger. Even with my family of four, I've never thought "if only we had a larger washer/dryer". Or bigger house for that matter: what do you do with all that space? Never mind the energy requirements...

The dryers have to be bigger cause their meals are bigger so their clothes are bigger

Mattb4 · May 25, 2023

SamG340 said:
The dryers have to be bigger cause their meals are bigger so their clothes are bigger

Puny little foreigners with their puny little cars and homes.

kennyb · May 25, 2023

upnorthandpersonal said:
Same. I've lived in the States for a few years; I still don't understand why everything needs to be so much bigger. Even with my family of four, I've never thought "if only we had a larger washer/dryer". Or bigger house for that matter: what do you do with all that space? Never mind the energy requirements...

I'm guilty of the bigger house. While I'm currently living comfortably in 301sqft with my wife an baby, the house is 2700sqft. It's hard to build small because resale value - which is a horrible reason, but it is what it is. I've done my best to be as energy efficient as possible and our projected heating and cooling load is 20w/m^2, which I think is reasonable considering the layout and size.

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