Thanks, I must be mistaken then, I always thought it was battery capacity divided by the number. I guess I understood it the inverse way..5 x 100 = 50
Thanks, I must be mistaken then, I always thought it was battery capacity divided by the number. I guess I understood it the inverse way..5 x 100 = 50
Answers:@TacomaJoe, there are several things you say here that are interesting to me -- but I'm just not educated enough yet to understand them. I appreciate that you are experienced with a system you feel is working well. Can you give me some more details? Here's what I don't understand:
1) What would you advise specifically regarding a BMS if I had an 800Ah system like I mentioned?
2) You seem satisfied with the 2000W inverter -- is that what you'd recommend, or something different -- for my proposed 800Ah system?
3) I think you are recommending "multiple batteries of lower capacity" -- if so, what exactly do you mean? Using many 100Ah? 200Ah? or is two 400Ah okay? Or is your three 280Ah the sweet spot?
Sorry for all the questions. I'd also appreciate references for where I can educate myself. I've read "Mobile_Solar_Power_-_Made_Easy" but it seems we are talking beyond the level of detail in that book.
Thanks again
Answers:
#1: Ah capacity and BMS discharge current are two different things. You may have 800Ah of capacity but the BMS may limit the discharge current to 150A so that's your limit. See #3 below.
#2: I selected a 2000W inverter because it is all I need to run the microwave in my trailer. I don't need to run A/C to keep cool. So I'm covered to heat my morning drink and more than enough W to run the normal loads (charging laptop, watch TV). A larger inverter will have a higher idle load so the 2000W made sense to me.
#3: A 2000W inverter would be starved if the BMS could only deliver 150A. My 3 batteries can deliver 120A each, even when I'm making 2000W, each battery is under 80A. In my thinking, I'm not taxing my BMS at all. Mine are DIY using 280A cells that were available is the reason for my capacity.
More thoughts; I think 2000W is about the limit for a 12V system. I think with 3000W, 48V would be ideal. I only have 300W of solar (that's all I could fit on the roof) so my charging is slow so I may have a net negative (use more than I make) but the capacity covers the difference until as a last resort I fire up the generator and hit them with 70A.
Thanks @TacomaJoe and @time2roll. After considering all the posts so far, I'm beginning to see what factors are important. Most importantly, I think I will choose 800Ah. Now I need to decide between the type of batteries I mentioned in the original post: two 400Ah server racks, or four 200Ah "regular" SOK batteries.160 amp charging is not necessary for LFP. Even a 20 amp charger on utility power is fine. Just takes longer.
@sunshine_eggo thanks for explaining. Unfortunately, your posts are still leaving me scratching my head. For example, in each post you talk about lead-acid batteries and yet my post doesn't mention those at all ("I want to buy lithium phosphate batteries, but need to decide how much" -- I even listed which lithium phosphate batteries I was looking at).
Also, in the first post you write for the "charge current. 0.2-0.4C is typically a sweet spot." and yet in this last post you write that a lithium phosphate battery is "charged at 0.5C"
Rated charge current: LFP batteries have a BMS. Both the BMS and the cells of the battery have limits. Generally speaking, a 100Ah battery can be discharged at 1C (100A) and charged at 0.5C (50A).
But still, I wanted to apply your numbers to my specific question, so I took the lowest charge current value you give (0.2C), and I think that would mean an 800Ah battery system should be charged at a minimum of 160A. I'm understanding that right? If so, I don't think I'll ever supply that at one time with my 900W solar array even if I added alternator charging with 2 Victron Orion 12|30's. So, once again, I'm bewildered by your posts.
LFP are far more flexible. Just don't exceed their rated charge current. 0.2-0.4C is typically a sweet spot.
As I said in my original post, "If you have actual experience, I'd find your advice especially helpful!" -- I said this because, as someone who has spent plenty of time in both theoretical and experimental science, I've come to value experimental results much more than theorizing. In my experience, theorizing is easy but there's usually something you miss. Actual experience/experiments are much more helpful for a simple man like me. Thanks again.
LFP are far more flexible. Just don't exceed their rated charge current. 0.2-0.4C is typically a sweet spot.
Your PV determines your daily energy usage.
Your Battery determines how long you can go without charging.
Have you conducted an energy audit and determined your needs? See link #1 in my signature.
Thanks @TacomaJoe and @time2roll. Now I need to decide between the type of batteries I mentioned in the original post: two 400Ah server racks, or four 200Ah "regular" SOK batteries.
Any advice on that?
It seems all that thread is about which server rack battery to choose, but that wasn't my question. I probably wasn't clear enough.Which server rack battery has fewest issues: SOK, Trophy, or Jackiper?
Will says all three of these have been reliable. I ruled out EG4 variants due to customer service. Which of SOK, Trophy, or Jackiper have the least issues for everyone? (48V versions) Like random BMS errors, precharge resistor, issues with inverters, or anything else. I was leaning towards...diysolarforum.com
Can you elaborate on the BMS limitation and how it is different then 4*100 ampHr batteries with 100A BMS in an example?One thought on battery selection is to keep in mind the BMS current limit. A 400Ah battery with a 100A discharge current won't do well with a 3000W inverter. Having multiple batteries of lower capacity makes sense when you consider adding the individual discharge currents.
I have three 280Ah batteries on my 2000W inverter and have plenty of overhead. I can take a battery out of service and not be handicapped.
So, j/c, what is the BMS rating? 100A, 200A, etc?One thought on battery selection is to keep in mind the BMS current limit. A 400Ah battery with a 100A discharge current won't do well with a 3000W inverter. Having multiple batteries of lower capacity makes sense when you consider adding the individual discharge currents.
I have three 280Ah batteries on my 2000W inverter and have plenty of overhead. I can take a battery out of service and not be handicapped.
We too have very limited real estate on our truck camper roof (ie- We currently have 4*100 w panels in parallel, with a 520 aHr battery bank (2*260 aHr LFP (HP) SFK batteries in parallel) an Epever 4210AN (which allows I think it’s up to 520W @12V)… But …because we are frequently moving (and lately plugged in much more frequently than we had been when we bought the LFP batteries, as a result of buying a used TT campground membership, go figure) we have not had any issues (even without the campground stays) keeping our battery bank charged and topped off with both the 400 watts of solar together with (more so it seems) the DCDC charger. And … on our recent 2 week camping trip, we actually tripped the battery bank a couple weeks ago as we only had a 3210AN Epever SCC at that point, and I’m guessing we must have went over the limitation of the solar panels, which pushed the LFP 125 aHr BMS’ to trip and shut down. Live and learn.…You will find the limited real estate on the roof will be the limiting factor. You will need load management is the point I'm making, you can get by if you are conservative on usage. If you move every few days for extended time frames, you might have enough alternator charging to cover some shortfalls.
Can you elaborate on the BMS limitation and how it is different then 4*100 ampHr batteries with 100A BMS in an example?One thought on battery selection is to keep in mind the BMS current limit. A 400Ah battery with a 100A discharge current won't do well with a 3000W inverter. Having multiple batteries of lower capacity makes sense when you consider adding the individual discharge currents.
I have three 280Ah batteries on my 2000W inverter and have plenty of overhead. I can take a battery out of service and not be handicapped.
We too have very limited real estate on our truck camper roof (ie- We currently have 4*100 w panels in parallel, with a 520 aHr battery bank (2*260 aHr LFP (HP) SFK batteries in parallel) an Epever 4210AN (which allows I think it’s up to 520W @12V)… But …because we are frequently moving (and lately plugged in much more frequently than we had been when we bought the LFP batteries, as a result of buying a used TT campground membership, go figure) we have not had any issues (even without the campground stays) keeping our battery bank charged and topped off with both the 400 watts of solar together with (more so it seems) the DCDC charger. And … on our recent 2 week camping trip, we actually tripped the battery bank a couple weeks ago as we only had a 3210AN Epever SCC at that point, and I’m guessing we must have went over the limitation of the solar panels, which pushed the LFP 125 aHr BMS’ to trip and shut down. Live and learn.…
So my question pertains to Zwi (and sunshine_eggo, etc) if it would have made any negative or positive difference if we had a larger rated BMS on each of the LFP batteries? Would it still have over voltage‘d and shut down the bms?
3 way fridge on 12V will suck some serious power plus it usually will attempt to maintain temp, not lower it. Very inefficient. You were wise to use propane.…. As we had been planning to run off the 12V setting on the 3 way fridge via the battery bank and the solar panels at that point, while we went biking. But sadly we ended up putting it back to propane, just to be safe that it didn’t shut off again while we were out riding, and then lose the food in the fridge and freezer, as we didn’t have any hookups where we were at that point.
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Can you elaborate on the BMS limitation and how it is different then 4*100 ampHr batteries with 100A BMS in an example?
For example, we have a 12v system on our truck camper, have just swapped over to an Epever 4210 AN SCC (from a 3210 AN after tripping the over voltage which resulted in the BMS shutting down the battery bank, I presume that the 400 watts of solar actually obtained the max voltage despite being flat on the roof while in coastal VA a few weeks ago, as we had recently doubled the panels from 2 up to 4*100W panels in parallel for total of 400W; and our battery bank is using (2) 260 aHr (HP) LFP SFK batteries in parallel for total of 520 aHr capacity, but … they only have the 125A BMS.
If you have a 400Ah battery with a 100A BMS, you will have 400Ah of capacity but can only use that capacity at a rate of less than 100A. I need 150A or so to run my 2000W inverter and with the 100A BMS I couldn't get the full use of the inverter. If you have 4*100Ah batteries in parallel, you get to add the BMS ratings, so you can pull up to 400A from your bank which will handle up to your 3000W future inverter.
My Epever would push one cell of one battery into overvoltage protection. I have reduced my boost to 14.0V and my float to 13.8V and no longer have a problem. I have since top balanced the one battery and the cell is behaving better now. With these voltages, my batteries are full and happy.
Your 560Ah battery bank can provide up to 250A. I prefer not to push mine and the typical max draw would be about 75% of the BMS (188A for you).
I realize that air conditioning is a monster power hog. (We don’t have any real inverter currently (we only have a small 750W non sine wave inverter that handles a small crock pot we use to make chili and soups etc while we are driving between destinations/camping spots, etc) …. We actually can not use air conditioning on anything other than shore power. We do have a generator, but we haven’t attempted running it while on the generator. Plus, I hate using it as it’s so loud, but on rare occasions when it is very hot and humid, we will use it to initially cool down the small camper and then just run the fans.Not quite following but either the BMS tripped from over voltage of the cells or low voltage disconnect. The BMS is doing what it designed to do. You need to adjust charge settings and determine if it was an over voltage caused by a bad cell or just not having the correct charge settings.
Yes, the reasons can range from an unbalanced pack where one cell hits 3.65V limit for LFP or the charge settings are too high on the SCC. The BMS is doing it's job.
With the 2 batteries in parallel, you can pull 250A (125A each) according to SFK specs for the 260Ah.
3 way fridge on 12V will suck some serious power plus it usually will attempt to maintain temp, not lower it. Very inefficient. You were wise to use propane.
If you power up the inverter and have a shunt, see how many watts you pull using AC power. It will surprise you. Only time I would use AC is connected to shore power. I only used 12V when traveling on the roadway and propane when parked and not connected to shore power. We no longer use the 3 way, I have a Dometic CFX95 in the back seat area of the truck cab. I run this off the solar system.
If there is alternator charging for backup, then it is wise to have more battery. The reason? Larger battery can get a system thru days of un-ending clouds and low yield. On days with high yield, the batteries can get full or close to full. It takes a long time to run a large battery bank from full to 20%. This allows many days between necessary charging.More battery gives you a higher starting point, but after that initial use, then the limiter is your panels/ how much they can recharge the batteries per day. Not a lot of use having more storage than your ability to fill that storage, unless you plan more panels one day.
Your irradiance by city link is broke....
Have you conducted an energy audit and determined your needs? See link #1 in my signature.