diy solar

diy solar

LFP for EV's projected to be less than $56 per kWh within 6 months

Hedges said:
Nope. My employer chooses to contribute something like 4% of my salary, if I contribute some.
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?

Hedges said:
Above my ($30k?, over age 50) normal contribution I can make non-deductible contributions. Swept next day into backdoor Roth. I keep making a mistake and maxing out the grand total limit before getting employer's match in the last one or two paychecks. Looks like $73,500 for the coming year. I plan to retire to the Bay Area, not move away.

Yeah, I know. My contribution is more than some people's income. Silicon Valley giveth, Silicon Valley Taketh Away. I gotta pay my $1000/month property taxes. For some people that's $2000/month. Want a burger? Includes $20/hour wages for burger flipper.



Exactly. I consider "fuel" cost, capital cost, TAXES, etc.
If I can repair a car by spending $800 on a new head, that's less than half of sales tax for the cheapest new car on the market. Registration is less too.

"Affordable". If battery costs more than fuel savings, we ain't buying. For some people, it does save money.
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Hedges said:
Lithium batteries a couple years ago were quite expensive, so I selected AGM for grid-backup.
If a car with worn out battery could be reconditioned by dropping in 64s or 128s, 50 Ah or 100 Ah LiFePO4 cells, repowering would be a viable option. Cubans reportedly keep '50's American cars on the road by installing Russian tractor engines.

When I was growing up, people bought cars and put in a good aftermarket radio. Today, cars come with good radios, but cost for it is high.

I prefer to by cars from estate auctions, got my truck when PG&E sold at auction.

The cars today have way too much stuff. Entry level is $20k. Average car is $40k?
People in my neck of the woods do buy high end things (see note above about Silicon Valley income and cost of living), but like many products price is similar elsewhere in the country, where it is a bigger bite. Here, the car might be 1 or 2 months pay to many people. Elsewhere, over a year's income.
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As if to prove my point again.

You're driving outdated junk in order to prove frugality. You can afford something better but won't so people will go "oh look at that poor dude in the honda civic" then the other voice in your head pipes in "did you know that guy maxed out his 401k last year, he's worth 3 million dollars and it's because he wouldn't buy stuff that he could easily afford".

Manufacturers cannot sell cars for less than they cost to build.

Otherwise they wouldn't be able to back end fund 401ks to the tune of $70,000.00 per year.
 
Checkthisout said:
So now a Rivian won't work because it has too many doors.

So you want a 2 door, 2wd, small work truck with hand crank windows, vinyl seats, no cup holders no air conditioning and you'll pay $40,000.00 for it?
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No air conditioning? I didn't say that. I can't tell if you are obtuse or just a moron.

Rivian is a full size, 4 door pickup. Not what I want or need. But, maybe auto makers will finally make something reasonable now that battery prices are coming down?

No, I want a 2 door, small, EV work truck. Period. I don't need 4 doors. I do need a longer bed. 250 - 300 mile range would be ideal. Our Ranger does not get driven a lot — just trips to the lumber yard and the dump. Plywood, 2 X 4s, etc. and an overhead rack for the long stuff. It ain't no cowboy cadillac. We have several other vehicles. It would be stupid to put $80,000+ into a vehicle that will spend most of it's life parked.

My wife wants me to convert one of our antiques into an EV. I can probably get that done before anyone makes an EV I would actually want to own.
 
Well with lower cost cells the EV conversion kits should be dropping in price to convert the old HiLux
 
Q-Dog said:
No air conditioning? I didn't say that. I can't tell if you are obtuse or just a moron.
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Ok. So what features are you deleting to get the costs down to what you can afford?

Q-Dog said:
Rivian is a full size, 4 door pickup. Not what I want or need. But, maybe auto makers will finally make something reasonable now that battery prices are coming down?
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My entire point is that it's the base cost of building the vehicle that you cant afford to pay for, not lane-keep assist and screens. Those add barely any cost to the vehicle.

Q-Dog said:
No, I want a 2 door, small, EV work truck. Period. I don't need 4 doors. I do need a longer bed. 250 - 300 mile range would be ideal. Our Ranger does not get driven a lot — just trips to the lumber yard and the dump. Plywood, 2 X 4s, etc. and an overhead rack for the long stuff. It ain't no cowboy cadillac. We have several other vehicles. It would be stupid to put $80,000+ into a vehicle that will spend most of it's life parked.
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Then it would also be silly to put 40k into an optionless 2wd "work truck" that just sits.
Q-Dog said:
My wife wants me to convert one of our antiques into an EV. I can probably get that done before anyone makes an EV I would actually want to own.
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This is a good idea. Already licensed. Just fab up batteries and a motor.
 
Checkthisout said:
Ok. So what features are you deleting to get the costs down to what you can afford?



My entire point is that it's the base cost of building the vehicle that you cant afford to pay for, not lane-keep assist and screens. Those add barely any cost to the vehicle.



Then it would also be silly to put 40k into an optionless 2wd "work truck" that just sits.


This is a good idea. Already licensed. Just fab up batteries and a motor.
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It isn't about what I can afford. It is about what I want. I retired at 50 because I could. I mean, how much $$$s does anyone need? I can buy a loaded up F150 this afternoon. That isn't what I want. Neither is the Rivian. Not interested in a full sized pickup. Or an SUV. Everything is just too damned big.

So, maybe, with lower battery prices auto makers will start making EVs for the masses — give us more choices. And maybe then there will be something I do want.

I don't know how many more projects I have in me. I almost bought a restored VW single cab pickup just to convert it to an EV. That would cost a fair bit more than the F150 EV, but it is closer to what I really want.
 
Checkthisout said:
You're driving outdated junk in order to prove frugality. You can afford something better but won't so people will go "oh look at that poor dude in the honda civic" then the other voice in your head pipes in "did you know that guy maxed out his 401k last year, he's worth 3 million dollars and it's because he wouldn't buy stuff that he could easily afford".
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Anybody who complains about cost of living ought to try wearing their threads until threadbare, saving leftovers for next meal, driving their cars into the ground.

If only our government was frugal, it wouldn't consume nearly so much of the GDP.

You're actually spot-on about my personal finances. You just don't know about my extravagances (which I tell myself are investments.) I do spend money, just not on the things normal people do.

Checkthisout said:
Manufacturers cannot sell cars for less than they cost to build.
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True. And there is no reason for them to manufacture cars for people to replace their old ones every 2 or 5 years. Make them last, and we buy new when old one wears out.

Do you trade in your major appliances every few years for shiny new models?

Should I sell my older cars, so someone else can drive them? Why them, not me? I am part of that food chain, just choose to be downstream. I'm the guy keeping waste out of the landfill, reducing the rate at which fossil fuels are consumed smelting crushed cars and recycling the materials. "Reduce, reuse, recycle"?
 
Hedges said:
Anybody who complains about cost of living ought to try wearing their threads until threadbare, saving leftovers for next meal, driving their cars into the ground.

If only our government was frugal, it wouldn't consume nearly so much of the GDP.

You're actually spot-on about my personal finances. You just don't know about my extravagances (which I tell myself are investments.) I do spend money, just not on the things normal people do.



True. And there is no reason for them to manufacture cars for people to replace their old ones every 2 or 5 years. Make them last, and we buy new when old one wears out.

Do you trade in your major appliances every few years for shiny new models?

Should I sell my older cars, so someone else can drive them? Why them, not me? I am part of that food chain, just choose to be downstream. I'm the guy keeping waste out of the landfill, reducing the rate at which fossil fuels are consumed smelting crushed cars and recycling the materials. "Reduce, reuse, recycle"?
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So at the end of the day, you're not a customer they can make money off of hence the reason they don't build $40,000.00 stripped 2wd work trucks.

You would be nowhere to be found if they did because you won't buy it at any price.
 
Q-Dog said:
It isn't about what I can afford. It is about what I want. I retired at 50 because I could. I mean, how much $$$s does anyone need? I can buy a loaded up F150 this afternoon. That isn't what I want. Neither is the Rivian. Not interested in a full sized pickup. Or an SUV. Everything is just too damned big.

So, maybe, with lower battery prices auto makers will start making EVs for the masses — give us more choices. And maybe then there will be something I do want.

I don't know how many more projects I have in me. I almost bought a restored VW single cab pickup just to convert it to an EV. That would cost a fair bit more than the F150 EV, but it is closer to what I really want.
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Round in circles we go.

The masses don't want stripped, optionless vehicles.

Nobody buys a 2wd work truck with a single cab and no options for $40k.

It would just sit on the lot and rot.

Hence my example with the Nissan Leaf.
 
Checkthisout said:
You would be nowhere to be found if they did because you won't buy it at any price.
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You haven't SEEN what I HAVE bought.

(The lady who took my loan application had a very unhappy look on her face!)

When someone buys a bond on the secondary market, none of that money goes to the company which originally floated the bond. Yet, a secondary market is very beneficial to the companies, because it improves the marketability of their bonds.

Similarly, the used car market supports new car sales, because that is where residual value comes from. Making finance and lease more affordable.

With batteries being a large portion of EV cost, if they could get transferred to other vehicles, or to ESS markets, that would improve EV residual value therefore supporting sales. Imagine if Tesla modules were rectangular packs that could be removed and charged/swapped as a stack crosswise on a semi-tractor.
 
So anyone thinking about layout for the LF560s? Seems like with cells being double wide a single 16 cell row would be the logical choice? I've asked my son for help with the fixture (metal endplates and threaded rods).
 
Checkthisout said:
Round in circles we go.

The masses don't want stripped, optionless vehicles.

Nobody buys a 2wd work truck with a single cab and no options for $40k.

It would just sit on the lot and rot.

Hence my example with the Nissan Leaf.
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The cheapest F150 on the 2 lots near me (single cab) are $35.5K. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me they could make a small EV pickup for $40,000.

I see single cab work trucks every day. Somebody is buying them.
 
Sorry, $36k

www.lightningowners.com

Ford Lost $36,000 For Every Electric Vehicle Sold Last...

Crazy to see how much Ford is losing on EVs! https://www.theautopian.com/ford-lost-36000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold-last-quarter-so-was-toyota-right/ Despite the higher volume, EV losses continued to rise in the third quarter, with the company posting an operating loss of $1.3 billion, up...
www.lightningowners.com www.lightningowners.com
 
Brucey said:
So anyone thinking about layout for the LF560s? Seems like with cells being double wide a single 16 cell row would be the logical choice? I've asked my son for help with the fixture (metal endplates and threaded rods).
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I was thinking along the lines of 2 x 8 cell rows, stacked using a shelf. This would be useful if space constrained.
 
Q-Dog said:
The cheapest F150 on the 2 lots near me (single cab) are $35.5K. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me they could make a small EV pickup for $40,000.

I see single cab work trucks every day. Somebody is buying them.
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Fleets and dealers who sell them to fleets.

Then fleets get rid of them and people use them as wheelbarrows.

Ford loses money at $35k.
 
Hedges said:
With batteries being a large portion of EV cost, if they could get transferred to other vehicles, or to ESS markets, that would improve EV residual value therefore supporting sales. Imagine if Tesla modules were rectangular packs that could be removed and charged/swapped as a stack crosswise on a semi-tractor.
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Honda got a class-action lawsuit over windshields that break too easily on the Element. The windshield was more vertical and hence more prone to being struck by rocks.

Who exactly is going to take on the cradle-to-grave liability for a 400-800 volt battery pack out of a car?
 
timselectric said:
I would, if it had an 8' bed.
But, I don't think that they will ever offer that.
So, I will have to build my own.
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I did, for $3800 including buyer's premium.
Then I paid $500 for four factory fresh tires on mag wheels (somebody paid 10x what I did for a truck, drove straight to the tire shop for big wheels.)

125k miles, 6.5L turbodiesel, Allison, 4wd.
It doesn't have A/C. Does have block heater. And a radio.

That was 15 years ago, so new trucks even more today.

Electric would actually work for most of the runs I do. But not cost-effective for 2000 miles/year.

Checkthisout said:
Then fleets get rid of them and people use them as wheelbarrows.
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Precisely. A great value for that.

Maybe I should by a Neighborhood Electric Vehicle for my commute. Depending on cost of any required registration and insurance.

Checkthisout said:
Who exactly is going to take on the cradle-to-grave liability for a 400-800 volt battery pack out of a car?
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I don't know, but California is pushing battery storage for the home. Ought to be deployed as utility-scale, where it is more economical and won't burn the house down.
 
So Ford sells an 80k truck.

Or they sell let's say 4 $20k vehicles.

You make more money on the 80k sale for one unit than you do selling 4 units.

You have 4 transport fees, 4 times the book keeping and 4 spots tied up on your assembly line and 4 times the labor costs. 4 times the liability for recalls etc.
 
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