Main service panel upgrade - SCE

[Hedges]

Don't include PV backfeed when totaling loads. (It drives current opposite direction, similar to turning off a load.)

You might want a safety switch for the branch going to PV. Others don't need it.

Without PV, you could have connected main lug only panels rated at least same as main breaker.
Given PV backfeed to that Meter Main, a main lug only panel would need to be rated for Main Breaker + PV backfeed.
Just use main breaker panels. Protected by their own main breaker, they can be 200A, 100A, whatever.

Note that any wires connected to meter main have Main Breaker + PV current available, so size or protect accordingly.

 

[Ampster]

Does anyone have experience with installing the meter in a separate meter socket? Do you recommend a separate meter socket and main panel or a hybrid panel/meter?

With PG&E I had to move my main service panel because of its proximity to the gas meter. That made it easier to coordinate because I got the.new meter approved by building department before hand so PG&E could schedule their crew to run a longer drop and I only lost service for less than an hour.
I could not find a meter with just a main breaker so I used a Solar Ready panel with a 225 Amp bus and a 200 Amp main breaker. I only used two breakers to feed sub panels inside because my second phase was to configure one subpanel as a critical (essential) loads panel when I added a hybrid inverter with battery backup. The good thing about the big main service panel was there was plenty of room for several sets of CTs to measure current for various monitoring devices. I also used wiring gutters above and below the sub panels for flexibility when I added the hybrid inverter. Here is a picture of the sub panels and hybrid inverter on the wall inside where the main service panel is just outside on same wall.

 

[Hedges]

My "gutter" is screwed to underside of floor joists.
Because my surface-mount panels are above the brick cripple wall trim, the panels have bottom edge around middle of joists. So I used 2x 45 degree conduit elbow to make "S" bends from panels to gutter
Once I replace old panel with 200A sub panel, it is to have a single 90 degree elbow over to main breaker only panel. Meant to be easy to stuff 3/0 (other conduit runs have 2 awg.)
This kept exterior fairly clean, unlike what I did in San Jose with conduit snaking everywhere. Only conduit is riser for overhead service, and nipple between Square D main breaker box and square D meter socket (I didn't think of the Siemens Meter Main until later.)

I will put similar "gutter" in crawl space behind garage wall. Breaker panel to go in garage, inverters in crawl space.

 

[zanydroid]

Total estimate maximum loads after upgrades: 54 KWH, 180A

Most of those should be kw not kWh.

You don’t need to factor in maximum load for a load calculation. Those allow a high degree of load diversity for a single family residence since there’s only so many things you can turn on with that few people.

The water heater you listed is a monster (45A). Is that two tanks? You should look into heat pump water heaters. Those are 3x more efficient and only use 500W on heat pump mode.

The AC likely doesn’t draw that much power, though in SoCal maybe you need a lot. Often the breakers are sized for surge load.

Hot tub is a big drain, yeah. That’s probably what will tip you over to 200A. I figured out how to my SF area house all electric but I can’t add any electrical toys without getting super creative, like adding an ESS. I do have more ports on my load manager but at some point you run out of loads that are easy to cut without affecting quality of life

 

[zanydroid]

This is alsmot perfect! then I would only need sub panels.
View attachment 209509do I have to use a safety switch between this panel and the subsequent sub panel? it already has a main breaker? should be sufficient?

The main breaker allows you to disconnect power while working downstream. And it looks like CTs will be easy to install. You can even get them under the feed to the 200A but that is kind of dangerous and may not be compatible with terminal cover. Easier to put it on the output side of the breaker. The wire goes out the bottom.

This picture does not have the newer style terminal covers on the hot side before the breaker, double check with building dept if they enforce that. Also the picture might not have all accessories installed

 

[zanydroid]

It might be easier to fit a top/bottom style again. Matching the width and height of the existing.

Or, a side by side where the meter is on the right instead of the left. Since you have more left clearance to grow.

 

[Solarisium]

Just talked to my SoCal Edison planner:
To sum it up:

• Talk to city for new mast/ conduits/ type of panel/ separate or combination etc!
• And this: “separate meter sockets are old school!” (Are they?! I lost trust at this point )
• Edison doesn’t have a list of approved panels.
• You can cut the meter seal yourself, pull it and install it yourself to the new panel!
• You can work on the Hot wires! Or you can also call the customer service so they come and disconnect the service! (That seems to be aligned with my observation of my neighbor’s service upgrade! I only saw contractors there and didnt see Edison’s crew!)
• You can decide on a new location for meter. Just call me OR send me pictures and I will approve it if it is within the guidelines.

Basically he gave me a whole lot of responsibilities!
Will be going to the City for those questions at some point this week. This seemed to be too good to be true! (Well, may be it is. Edison approved my solar interconnection without inspection and only bases off City’s inspection)

 

[Hedges]

PG&E has "Green Book" with many details, including separation of electrical from gas equipment.
If SCE doesn't, get PG&E's and follow it.

Yanking or inserting a meter would be no big deal, if main breaker off so zero current.

Cut and swing of overhead wires, preparing bare aluminum conductor, crimping onto new wires IS a big deal; it is hot work and unfused. Have the utility do that (and they'll move the meter at same time.)

I used Square D equipment. The only CSED they had was Homeline, not QO. No meter main.
So I used "old school" separate meter box and main breaker only box. (The Siemens Meter Main I gave a link to is more compact and cleaner.) "Compact" means a bit less room for Polaris. I see it has fewer N/G lugs than the one I used, might need a 3rd connector for those.

My city gives service upgrade permit without drawings. I just wrote a bit of text. At one point the inspector noted it did mention the disconnect switch I had installed. (He asked if I had a permit for PV, and I said not yet.)

Because I was putting new box on front of house facing street, it required some sort of architectural/zoning review. But at no cost, and no hearing. I had to pay $100 ~ $200 for the no-cost review, including submitting a form regarding affected trees and Superfund sites. Also photos showing all 10 of the fewer than 5 houses on either side of my house, on my side and across the street. And photos from 4 sides of my house.

I also paid two permit fees for the upgrade, about $150 + $100.

All told, permits were as much as I spent for several new boxes (I shop hard.)

PG&E had me agree to $3500 estimate but appears to not charge anything (no upgrade, just cut and swing.)

 

[Solarisium]

No, I will not work on the hot wires. I understand the risk.
If it was a like to like panel replacement, one can carefully with proper PPE can connect the wires to the meter, but this is not worth it.

Disclaimer: To whoever is reading this and receiving service from Edison, this experience may not apply to you, and you are probably required to disconnect the service and have the utility cut and swing. You must confirm with your planner.