Poll: Nissan Leaf vs Chrysler Pacifica vs BMW i3 Battery Packs

[luisenriquereyes]

I am building a 48 Volt off grid system with a 5.5 kWh solar array powered by these Magnum Energy components:

48 Volt 4,400 Watt Magnum Inverter (Model: MS4448PAE)

100 Amp Magnum Charge Controller (Model: PT-100)

These are the three battery pack modules I am interested in:

48 Volt Nissan Leaf Battery Pack 3.5 kWh 66 Ah

Specs:

Remaining Capacity: Tested 70%+
Year of Vehicle: 2015

Total Voltage: 48V
Amp Hour: 66 Ah

Max Voltage: 58.8 V
Nominal Voltage: 52.5 V
Min Voltage: 40.0 V

Number of Cells: 7
Construction: 7 in-series

Weight: 70 lbs

Price: $800

60 Volt Chrysler Pacifica Battery Pack 3 kWh 45 Ah

Specs:

Remaining Capacity: Tested 90%+
Year of Vehicle: 2017

Total Voltage: 60 V
Amp Hour: 45 Ah

Max Voltage: 67.2 V
Nominal Voltage: 59.2 V
Min Voltage: 48 V

Number of Cells: 16
Construction: 16 in-series

Weight: 54 lbs

Price: $700

48 Volt BMW i3 Battery Pack 4.1 kWh 92 Ah

Specs:

Remaining Capacity: Tested 90%+
Year of Vehicle: 2017

Total Voltage: 48 V
Amp Hour: 92 Ah

Max Voltage: 49.2 V
Nominal Voltage: 44.4 V
Min Voltage: 32.4 V

Number of Cells: 12
Construction: 12 in-series

Weight: 59 lbs

Price: $775

I would purchase two packs and connect them in parallel to double their amperage rating.

Please vote for your favorite or favorites or suggest a different pack to help me in my purchasing decision.

Thank you very much

 

[Getyourbone]

I think if you compare you inverters high/low voltage specs, the one that matches up best is the Nissan.

The Chrysler does match the specs.

With the bmw, it looks like you would lose a fair bit on the low side



Nissan







BMW



Chrysler

 

[Getyourbone]

Larger view

 

[luisenriquereyes]

I think if you compare you inverters high/low voltage specs, the one that matches up best is the Nissan.

The Chrysler does match the specs.

With the bmw, it looks like you would lose a fair bit on the low side

Thanks for your observation. Why do you think the Nissan matches up best?

I see that the Nissan's high is 58.8 but the inverter can go up to 67.6

The Nissan's low is 40.0 but the inverter low is only 50.0

Chrysler matches up the best instead?

The Chrysler's high is 67.2 and the inverter can go up to 67.6

The Chrysler's low is 48.0 and the inverter low is 50.0

So comparing the Nissan and the Chrysler, the Chrysler battery wins?

 

[Getyourbone]

Others certainly can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe LBCO @40v is “low battery cut off” or “low battery cut out”… LBCI would be the parameter for Reconnection of the inverter @ 50v

 

[Getyourbone]

But you may be right I think it’s the toss of the dice / flip the coin kind of thing... either way… There may be other things that make one or the other stand out… Would love to hear others’ opinions

 

[Getyourbone]

A 15s configuration is actually what would allow for falling right smack in the middle… Chrysler at 16s is on the high side but fits and Nissan at 14s is on the low side but fits.

 

[Chris81964]

Thank you for watching my video and asking for my opinion. I have installed the Nissan leaf and the LG Chem battery from the pacifica. The leaf battery (14S) falls within the voltage range of most inverters out there. 58.8 at 4.2 and 57.6 at 4.1 per cell. The LG Chem at 4.1 V is 65.6 which exceeds the voltage of most inverters. Some of these batteries need to see 4.1 V to get any meaningful capacity from them. They don't have a lot left below 3.5/3.6 V. The Leaf has given me the most flexibility and I have done videos on them

 

[Getyourbone]

Thank you for watching my video and asking for my opinion. I have installed the Nissan leaf and the LG Chem battery from the pacifica. The leaf battery (14S) falls within the voltage range of most inverters out there. 58.8 at 4.2 and 57.6 at 4.1 per cell. The LG Chem at 4.1 V is 65.6 which exceeds the voltage of most inverters. Some of these batteries need to see 4.1 V to get any meaningful capacity from them. They don't have a lot left below 3.5/3.6 V. The Leaf has given me the most flexibility and I have done videos on them

So do you think the same can be said with Tesla modules...? Does a 12s for “48v” or 7s for 24v work due to your comments above or do you really need 14s / 6s configuration to have it make sense in similar system?...it has always be my take that 14s is config that makes the repurposed modules work...any deviation from that and one really needs to reevaluate as the value of the concept “degrades” rapidly.

Love to hear your opinion...

 

[Chris81964]

So do you think the same can be said with Tesla modules...? Does a 12s for “48v” or 6s for 24v work due to your comments above or do you really need 14s / 6s configuration to have it make sense in similar system?...it has always be my take that 14s is confit that makes the repurposed modules work...any deviation from that and one really needs to reevaluate as the value of the “degrades” rapidly.

Love to hear your opinion...

What works for you is determined by your inverter. If the inverter gives you enough of voltage range to allow for the choice you make then it does not matter if it is a 5 6 14 15 or 16S. The Outback works up to 66 V in 48V and I think 34 V in 24V. My Conext CSW 4048 is more limited in the range I can use. The Victron max is 64V and there is a claim that you might be able to do 66V (my phoenix does not go that high).
At the end of the day, your choice of modules and configuration is determined by your inverter. Thank you for asking to hear my opinion. I hope I at the very least gave an answer that is helpful.

 

[Getyourbone]

Oh no no no...thank you!

I understand the need for the battery to fit the inverter specs...and I guess that is what I try to explain in other posts on the issue.

Almost all inverters do not have a low enough cut out/cut off given the normal nominal capacities most speak of (24v,48v,...)to allow for full use of of usabable capacity of the modules

If I try to read into what you are saying is don’t be so worried about the low side as much as the high side of the voltage range...? Following me? Am I making sense?

 

[Chris81964]

Oh no no no...thank you!

I understand the need for the battery to fit the inverter specs...and I guess that is what I try to explain in other posts on the issue.

Almost all inverters do not have a low enough cut out/cut off given the normal nominal capacities most speak of (24v,48v,...)to allow for full use of of usabable capacity of the modules

If I try to read into what you are saying is don’t be so worried about the low side as much as the high side of the voltage range...? Following me? Am I making sense?

You make perfect sense. One correction LBCO is critical or else you destroy the batteries. I have mine set between 3.4 and 3.6 per cell. Generic BMS' are set to 3.0 cutoff. Which is 42V. I think that is too low. The cells in the Nissan start to drift and go out of balance when you get below 3.4V per cell. Thank you again for reading and asking for clarification. Use them between 3.5 and 4.1 and I think you will be fine.

 

[Getyourbone]

Given those parameters to operate under I think it prudent for people to under stand they are not going to get remotely close to the “marketed” “advertised” capacity per cycle..at the same time, because less has been drained from the module, it will take less time/energy to get it back to full.

Doesn’t the chart below show that cutting off in your range leave a very significant amount of energy unused and therefore need to increase you battery bank accordingly to achieve desired usable capacity?

I believe this is for 2018 Nissan cell specs...this should be gen 2?… Gen 1 modules might be slightly different

 

[luisenriquereyes]

You make perfect sense. One correction LBCO is critical or else you destroy the batteries. I have mine set between 3.4 and 3.6 per cell. Generic BMS' are set to 3.0 cutoff. Which is 42V. I think that is too low. The cells in the Nissan start to drift and go out of balance when you get below 3.4V per cell. Thank you again for reading and asking for clarification. Use them between 3.5 and 4.1 and I think you will be fine.

Thank you Chris. Great input from an experienced user.

My Magnum inverter High Battery Cut Out (HBCO) is 67.6 V so it should work with the LG Chem because 4.1 V x 16S is 65.6 V

The Low Battery Cut Out (LBCO) of the Magnum inverter is 40.0 V so it should work with the LG Chem because 3.5 V x 16S is 56.0 V

Is my math correct?


If my math is correct then the following should apply to the Nissan Leaf:

My Magnum inverter High Battery Cut Out (HBCO) is 67.6 V so it should work with the Nissan Leaf because 8.2 V x 7S is 57.4 V

The Low Battery Cut Out (LBCO) of the Magnum inverter is 40.0 V so it should work with the LG Chem because 7.0 V x 7S is 49.0 V


So they both should work but the LG Chem Pacifica batteries, with the Magnum inverter, gets to use more Volts between high and low compared to the Nissan Leaf:

Voltage Range if cells used between 3.5 and 4.1 Volts:

LG Chem Pacifica: 9.6 V
Nissan Leaf: 8.4 V

 

[Chris81964]

Thank you Chris. Great input from an experienced user.

My Magnum inverter High Battery Cut Out (HBCO) is 67.6 V so it should work with the LG Chem because 4.1 V x 16S is 65.6 V

The Low Battery Cut Out (LBCO) of the Magnum inverter is 40.0 V so it should work with the LG Chem because 3.5 V x 16S is 56.0 V

Is my math correct?


If my math is correct then the following should apply to the Nissan Leaf:

My Magnum inverter High Battery Cut Out (HBCO) is 67.6 V so it should work with the Nissan Leaf because 8.2 V x 7S is 57.4 V

The Low Battery Cut Out (LBCO) of the Magnum inverter is 40.0 V so it should work with the LG Chem because 7.0 V x 7S is 49.0 V


So they both should work but the LG Chem Pacifica batteries, with the Magnum inverter, gets to use more Volts between high and low compared to the Nissan Leaf:

Voltage Range if cells used between 3.5 and 4.1 Volts:

LG Chem Pacifica: 9.6 V
Nissan Leaf: 8.4 V

You are right on the money. Always add a bms. It is extra insurance. You can't go wrong with one.

 

[luisenriquereyes]

You are right on the money. Always add a bms. It is extra insurance. You can't go wrong with one.

Thank you very much ??

 

[ThinBlueLine]

I’m going to use Nissan Leaf batteries for a home I’m building just outside San Antonio Texas.
Will use mppt solar hybrid controller. Still working out the details.