RV / Crawler - Hauler 48v 120/240 Split phase setup

[MikesRV]

Good Afternoon All,


Forgive me for my lack of experience here, I have just began researching for this project.

I have been working on this 1985 35' RV that was originally intended to be a Horse Coach with 6 horse stalls in the back. I have been working converting this rig to carry my 1978 Toyota FJ40. As you can see from the pictures there has been some headway made on the garage conversion front.




My latest focus is on the electrical side of things. When purchased the RV was setup with 2 Onan 4000 watt 120V generators along with 2 separate 30 amp RV panels and 2 separate 30A shore power setups. The RV was originally separated front and back with two breaker panels.

My ultimate goal here is to setup a 48v lithium house battery bank and a 120/240v inverter setup with solar on the roof. I would like to retain one of the generators and remove the second one. I would also like to be able to power the system on 120v shore/ generator power and still be able to invert up to 240v. I am starting from scratch here so I am open to any and all suggestions.

So far I have been considering the following setups to get started on the battery/inverter front:

- EG4 6000XP with a separate 48v 100a Chargeverter

- 2 x Victron Quattro 3KVA 120vac 48vdc units in a split phase configuration. I haven't found a lot of information about this but from what I have gathered it is possible to have a master and slave 120v unit and have the master provide 48v DC to the slave and have the slave provide the opposite phase of 120v power for a true 120/240 split setup.

- 1 x Victron Quattro or Multiplus 5KVA 120vac 48vdc with a Victron Autotransformer on the outlet to create the 120/240 split phase output.

As for the batteries I have been pondering picking up 4 ECO-WORTHY 48V 50Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Batteries to get started.

Now the goal is to be putting 3600W of solar on the roof of the RV later in the year. At first just run the batteries off the shore power charge and top off with the Generator along with a alternator power via 12v-48v BB124870 DC-DC charger I just purchased from Sterling Power.

Here's a rendering of the proposed solar setup on the roof:



These are 5 x Canadian solar BiHiKu7N-MB-AG 655 and then 6 optional eBay 100W panels just to see what else fit. I would start with the 4 BiHiKu7N-MB-AG 655 on the back.

How would you guys recommend I kick this off?

Thank you,

Mike

 

[sunshine_eggo]

- 2 x Victron Quattro 3KVA 120vac 48vdc units in a split phase configuration. I haven't found a lot of information about this but from what I have gathered it is possible to have a master and slave 120v unit and have the master provide 48v DC to the slave and have the slave provide the opposite phase of 120v power for a true 120/240 split setup.

Not as stated. Inverter #1 does not provide DC to the slave. Both inverters are connected to the same 48V battery. The L1 (master) inverter and L2 (slave) inverter have a data cable connecting them to allow them to sync their sine waves. When properly configured, they can charge from both 120V input (30A shore) or 120/240V input (50A shore). When 120V is supplied only one inverter will pass through the 120V to loads and charge. The other inverter will keep inverting to supply 120V on its phase.

- 1 x Victron Quattro or Multiplus 5KVA 120vac 48vdc with a Victron Autotransformer on the outlet to create the 120/240 split phase output.

This will only allow charging from 120V.

The 100W panels will need their own charge controller. Each string in a parallel array needs to have Vmp within about 10%. Each string of panels will operate at the current of the lowest rated panel in the string.

5 big panels limit your options. Either 5S or 5P or 2S on one controller and 3S on another controller.

Looks like a really cool project!

 

[G00SE]

Following:

Are you on the crawler haulers fb group? This is the content I love! Especially Toyota crawlers.
Lots of people have been jumping on the ecoworthy batteries for good deals and seem to be fairly content with them. Definitely easier to move around.
I haven’t seen a 6000xp rv set up yet, there’s a lot of Victron rv designs out there to be sure. I imagine the Victron route will be more costly, potentially more robust but the new 6k from eg4 seems like a huge bang for the buck

 

[chrisski]

What are your power requirements? Recommend you find kWh and then use this to calculate if your 3600 watts of panels makes enough power for your needs and your 20 kWh battery.

My guess is 5 kWh power per sunny cloudless day in the winter and 20 kWh per day in the summer for flat panels.

A single 15 k BTU AC can suck 40kWh per day when running in a hot environment 24/7. Two of them and a hot water heater and other appliances can approach 100 kWh.

alternator power via 12v-48v BB124870 DC-DC charger I just purchased from Sterling Power.

How much charging can you do off this? You have 10 kWh + of batteries and the alternator charging usually provides a few hundred.

 

[MikesRV]

Not as stated. Inverter #1 does not provide DC to the slave. Both inverters are connected to the same 48V battery. The L1 (master) inverter and L2 (slave) inverter have a data cable connecting them to allow them to sync their sine waves. When properly configured, they can charge from both 120V input (30A shore) or 120/240V input (50A shore). When 120V is supplied only one inverter will pass through the 120V to loads and charge. The other inverter will keep inverting to supply 120V on its phase.

I think I can follow what you're saying here about the two inverters. The Master takes the 120V in, inverts it to DC, and passes the DC to the 48v battery bank where is is drawn by the Slave which will invert the DC to 120V AC 180 out of phase from the master. Is that correct?



Thanks for the clarification!


As for the 240v in- I'm not sure how often I will actually be able to get on a 50A 4 prong RV service so I think I could live with that sacrifice.

Thank you for the compliment!

Mike

 

[MikesRV]

Following:

Are you on the crawler haulers fb group? This is the content I love! Especially Toyota crawlers.
Lots of people have been jumping on the ecoworthy batteries for good deals and seem to be fairly content with them. Definitely easier to move around.
I haven’t seen a 6000xp rv set up yet, there’s a lot of Victron rv designs out there to be sure. I imagine the Victron route will be more costly, potentially more robust but the new 6k from eg4 seems like a huge bang for the buck

I have not joined the FB group. I joined one about Super-C RV's. I prefer forums like this to be able to go through legacy information easier.

I'm starting over so its a clean slate for the most part. Victron stuff seems great but they definitely like to spread the features out over their product line to get you on the hook for a bunch of extra components.

Its hard to beat the prices on those ECO-worthy batteries. I like that they have a metal case and are separated in a manageable form factor. Dimensionally they will fit perfectly where I intend to install them.

In the end its only an RV and I'm not sure its worth the expense and complexity of all the separate components. The reliability that comes with the Victron brand name is great but this isn't life or death for me with the RV, its simply a toy and already has a bit of redundancy built in.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[MikesRV]

What are your power requirements? Recommend you find kWh and then use this to calculate if your 3600 watts of panels makes enough power for your needs and your 20 kWh battery.

My guess is 5 kWh power per sunny cloudless day in the winter and 20 kWh per day in the summer for flat panels.

A single 15 k BTU AC can suck 40kWh per day when running in a hot environment 24/7. Two of them and a hot water heater and other appliances can approach 100 kWh.

How much charging can you do off this? You have 10 kWh + of batteries and the alternator charging usually provides a few hundred.

Right now all I have is a small refrigerator, a TV and a few odds and ends. Typical RV stuff. I'm pretty limited by solar area so it is what it is as far as that's concerned.

I'm planning to put together a reasonable system and adjust my loads accordingly. Its a bit backwards I agree. If I could charge some power tools and run a TIG welder while the Generator is running that would be pretty neat though! haha

The DC-DC is supposed to get me 800w into the batteries. Its not much, but its enough to keep the fridge running and hopefully top the batteries off on longer drives.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[MikesRV]

Here are a couple videos of the RV:

Thank you,

Mike

 

[G00SE]

ALH powered?

 

[MikesRV]

ALH powered?

BHW.

I had an ALH in my Toyota Mini-truck. Good little engines!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I think I can follow what you're saying here about the two inverters. The Master takes the 120V in, inverts it to DC, and passes the DC to the 48v battery bank where is is drawn by the Slave which will invert the DC to 120V AC 180 out of phase from the master. Is that correct?

I think AC-DC is called conversion.

You're viewing it as discrete events, but it's more of an everything, everywhere, all at once thing. The battery is just there. It's either charging or discharging based on the net of charges and loads. One inverter is charging it, the other is discharging it. The L1 inverter's sine wave IS the incoming power sine wave, and it signals the L2 inverter to stay in sync.

Something hinted at, but not stated explicitly and not intuitive to everyone... Inverters/chargers can do both, but only one at a time. It's using the same circuitry for charging/inverting, just in opposite direction. So when on 120V shore, the entire leg is powered by shore and any extra is used to charge. Since the second inverter isn't on input AC, it's modulating its 120V output in sync with but opposite to the L1 inverter.

 

[MikesRV]

I think AC-DC is called conversion.

You're viewing it as discrete events, but it's more of an everything, everywhere, all at once thing. The battery is just there. It's either charging or discharging based on the net of charges and loads. One inverter is charging it, the other is discharging it. The L1 inverter's sine wave IS the incoming power sine wave, and it signals the L2 inverter to stay in sync.

Something hinted at, but not stated explicitly and not intuitive to everyone... Inverters/chargers can do both, but only one at a time. It's using the same circuitry for charging/inverting, just in opposite direction. So when on 120V shore, the entire leg is powered by shore and any extra is used to charge. Since the second inverter isn't on input AC, it's modulating its 120V output in sync with but opposite to the L1 inverter.

Understood.

thank you for that.

Would you recommend I use this configuration over the others?

The 6000xp with the 100a charger is in interesting proposition, but seems a little like a Band-Aid. Its nice and relatively simple though! And the Chargeverter says it can take in 120 or 240V. It seems pretty flexible.

EG4 Chargeverter - GC | 48V 100A Battery Charger 5120W Output | 240/120V Input (PRE-ORDER)

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

Thanks,

Mike

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Victron is a 50 year old company with a very long track record of marine and RV use as well as a lot of EU residential.

Their equipment is generally bulletproof and lasts a long time. 5 year default warranty that can be extended to 10 year for 10% of the purchase price. You pay a premium for the reliability.

The CEO of the company is active on their support forum and directly manages the development of their operating system. In the last five years, I've had multiple NEW features added to my hardware due to firmware updates.

I'm biased.

Would I consider lower cost AiO for critical applications? No. Will I consider them for non-critical projects? Absolutely.