Unintended consequences of Solar that we see

Madcodger said:

I had a young person ask me for business advice recently. I told them to be honest and ethical, offer niche products/services with few competitors, that require unique skills or IP, and to never, ever, set up a business that requires the buyer to spend their own money, as opposed to someone else's.

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LOL
I tell those young people having a recession-proof skill no one else can do, and no one else wants to do, is a sure fire win.

On the consumers side. Yeah, we can put in a 6kw system for you. That would be $24,000. No we won't put in the string inverter you want. We only do Sol ark, Solar edge (add whatever name you want in here) with micro inverters or optimizers. You want anOutback system? Nope. I am the customer. I am paying the bill.

It is interesting that some are saying people have no idea what things cost and expect ti al to be chap, others saying that installers are taking the p155. For me, my 15kW panel system with 2 inverters and 15kWh of battery storage, with some DIY and some costs for an electrician coming in, is less than half what a colleague was quoted for a 3.8kW system with no battery, fully installed.

As for heat pumps, the UK Govt has a scheme where they offer a grant of £7500 - but it's paid to the installer. The last quote I got had £7k of kit, but was £14k after the govt. grant taken off, so they were wanting £7k to install it - it's take out a boiler and replace, wire in the heat pump. Maybe 2 people, maybe 2 days. No remodelling as enough space to do it. So there's a lot of excess profit being made at the moment, at least I the UK.

OffGridForGood said:

Shows you the expectations of people: "can I get a total solar turn-key system to run everything and A/C in my RV for a grand?"
yeah, I got that question a few times now too.
Or this other one, "I am building a new garage, can I make it totally on solar for less than the cost of running a subpanel from my house"

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You CAN do things inexpensively... IF YOU DO IT YOURSELF!!

Intended consequences - I get a new toy to play with that is infinitely tinkerable!!

Unintended consequences... as a redhead, I never thought I'd look up at the sun and smile.

Also, didn't expect single-digit kWh power use days! I was charged by 2 and couldn't use all potential power!

OffGridForGood said:

Unintended consequence - the hours spent reading posts!

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#1) …Uhhhh, how about 100’s of hours.. for years….. at least in my case….
# 2) ..I have way less money in the bank…..
#3) …I seem to have developed a Blueish tint when I look in the mirror…

J.

ericfx1984 said:

I have a lot of people that think I can do it for them for next to nothing... I had one local that lives in an RV... A 50 amp RV with two rooftop air conditioners ask if I could get him up and running... I ran some numbers for him and he was surprised

He figured that I could set him up for less than $1,000 and that that would run everything for basically as long as he wanted it to run

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THIS. I can't count on both hands and feet how many times people ask if they can put their 4000 sq/ft home on solar/battery for pennies. It's one of the main reason I won't do work for friends/family anymore (like I'm sure a lot of people here have already learned).

But ill give them advice on where to go, what to look out for, and what equipement they would want/dont need. Then once they get several quotes from solar installers, they always ignore everything i recommended, they go for the cheapest bid with Chinese microinverters, and very little (or no) options for battery backup, and still spend 2x more than they should have, just to ask me why it's not working the way they expected.

/endrant

Lt.Dan said:

THIS. I can't count on both hands and feet how many times people ask if they can put their 4000 sq/ft home on solar/battery for pennies. It's one of the main reason I won't do work for friends/family anymore (like I'm sure a lot of people here have already learned).

But ill give them advice on where to go, what to look out for, and what equipement they would want/dont need. Then once they get several quotes from solar installers, they always ignore everything i recommended, they go for the cheapest bid with Chinese microinverters, and very little (or no) options for battery backup, and still spend 2x more than they should have, just to ask me why it's not working the way they expected.

/endrant

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Young Mennonite neighbor 1/4 mile from me called and asked about my system. He was looking at grid tie and wanted a roof mount. There are 10 acres there, I looked at that place before purchasing this one. There is a shed on the property and the south side would be perfect for a ground mount, no trees just open field. I told him what I would do if I was him, it snows here and stays cold so panels might not clear on a fixed ground mount at 45°, I did a video this winter showing 9 days of lost production on a fixed ground mount. On the south side of the shed, he might be able to get by with a ground mount just due to being a few degrees warmer, however more snow could drift on the array.

Noticed the other day a van was there and installation of rails on the attached garage roof which is a 4/12 pitch. Panels and grid tie electrical installed the next. The only thing he had going for him was he installed a steel roof a year ago. Windbreak isn't that good there, with the roof eave facing south, it will get loaded with snow from the NW wind, no avoiding it.

The salesman told him just what he wanted to hear. I can only imagine what it cost him. Live and learn. He will be learning this next year.

plympton said:

Intended consequences - I get a new toy to play with that is infinitely tinkerable!!

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Tell me about it.



It. Never. Ends.

More tweaking yesterday, added / augmented some load shed automations as well as output source priority mode change and giving higher priority to home battery over EV charging.

Aside from free electricity tariff periods, self-consumption is the game with several loads automatically adjusting to available PV. Yellow production, red consumption, overlap orange = self consumption



Spike in consumption on 30 March is the free tariff period (which by the way are becoming more common here - another consequence of how much solar PV we have on the grid).

Then my wife puts on the dryer during this morning's peak hour, right when I want to preserve some battery for the crappy solar day ahead.
I. Will. Not. Say. Anything.

Might bring out the EV and draw some energy from it to charge the home battery, just for a bit of a fun experiment. We have some solid rain expect to start today and go through for a couple more days.

Every large roof looks like a lost opportunity to me now. I mean, why aren't they taking advantage of free energy? It's worse when I see large commercial buildings. Like WTH are they doing wasting all that great space....

I have to bite my tongue now when I'm in the car with my wife. I think she's tired of hearing the word "solar".

Opportunity costs. Companies get far higher returns investing money elsewhere.
When there is cheap money available, investors will borrow and offer power purchase agreements to such companies.

Sometimes beancounters sign really bad deals, because "cost per month" is all they know.

two related unintended consequences - (1) I'm constantly looking to expand my setup, and none of the first stage is even built yet. (2) I'm spending ages on eBay making offers on used kit that everyone on there laughs at because they don't realise how much new stuff is. Used pylontech 2000 batteries they won;t let go for less than £1200.....

and I guess the third is me pacing around n my garage roof wondering if its worth cutting down trees to fit two more panels on, when I already know my main roof will take 22 more.....

Do I need all this power? probably not. Do I want it - oh, yes (actually, cos doing the work is the hard part, the cost of adding a bit more in is actually minor - at least, that's what I tell myself).

xcentric said:

doing the work is the hard part, the cost of adding a bit more in is actually minor - at least, that's what I tell myself).

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Oh Yes!
That whole, I will convince myself that ...is only a small increase in effort since everything else will already be in place...or is that called
fooling myself

And suddenly, I want to be completely off grid even though that is not necessary (have net metering for 20 years). Cause, why should the utility get any money....

I hear ya!
Power...Must Have More Power...MORE I SAY!!

If I have enough power for myself and my neighbors.
Any shortcomings are my neighbors problems.

Lt.Dan said:

THIS. I can't count on both hands and feet how many times people ask if they can put their 4000 sq/ft home on solar/battery for pennies. It's one of the main reason I won't do work for friends/family anymore (like I'm sure a lot of people here have already learned).

But ill give them advice on where to go, what to look out for, and what equipement they would want/dont need. Then once they get several quotes from solar installers, they always ignore everything i recommended, they go for the cheapest bid with Chinese microinverters, and very little (or no) options for battery backup, and still spend 2x more than they should have, just to ask me why it's not working the way they expected.

/endrant

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We totally agree ……
I have several friends that have watched what I have done out here…..and see it working…
they are wanting me to help them with the solar stuff they want to create to power their big home and all appliances and etc….…..their budget is +/- a couple of grand… … im supposed to do it free …..
At first I tried to offer what advice I could or felt qualified to offer ….buttt…
No matter what I told them to consider or think about researching ,they do dumb stuff …because “some guy “ they met at the Piggly Wiggly told them that cheap China solar stuff is best..…and that eBay would insure they can’t get ripped off….or they already have alot of 12v car audio stuff from the 90,s …..or …or…or….

I have quit telling anyone I even have a system… and if they know already , I tell em it broke.

I know there are exceptions , but generally leave family and friends alone unless you wish to start a “ not for profit “ solar consulting business …so you can hear about every quirk that ever happens, and trouble shoot it on the phone …..forever ….


That’s just my take on it…….J

JRH said:

We totally agree ……
I have several friends that have watched what I have done out here…..and see it working…
they are wanting me to help them with the solar stuff they want to create to power their big home and all appliances and etc….…..their budget is +/- a couple of grand… … im supposed to do it free …..
At first I tried to offer what advice I could or felt qualified to offer ….buttt…
No matter what I told them to consider or think about researching ,they do dumb stuff …because “some guy “ they met at the Piggly Wiggly told them that cheap China solar stuff is best..…and that eBay would insure they can’t get ripped off….or they already have alot of 12v car audio stuff from the 90,s …..or …or…or….

I have quit telling anyone I even have a system… and if they know already , I tell em it broke.

I know there are exceptions , but generally leave family and friends alone unless you wish to start a “ not for profit “ solar consulting business …so you can hear about every quirk that ever happens, and trouble shoot it on the phone …..forever ….


That’s just my take on it…….J

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So True!!

frasere2 said:

I mean, why aren't they taking advantage of free energy?

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Because it costs money to harvest it and to set up the ability to consume it at the time of production. IOW it's not free at all.

Many rooftops are rented.

Many won't have the current ownership for long enough to warrant the spend.

Many cannot afford it.

Many have grid power that is still reasonably priced, or don't use that much electrical energy.

JRH said:

We totally agree ……
I have several friends that have watched what I have done out here…..and see it working…
they are wanting me to help them with the solar stuff they want to create to power their big home and all appliances and etc….…..their budget is +/- a couple of grand… … im supposed to do it free …..
At first I tried to offer what advice I could or felt qualified to offer ….buttt…
No matter what I told them to consider or think about researching ,they do dumb stuff …because “some guy “ they met at the Piggly Wiggly told them that cheap China solar stuff is best..…and that eBay would insure they can’t get ripped off….or they already have alot of 12v car audio stuff from the 90,s …..or …or…or….

I have quit telling anyone I even have a system… and if they know already , I tell em it broke.

I know there are exceptions , but generally leave family and friends alone unless you wish to start a “ not for profit “ solar consulting business …so you can hear about every quirk that ever happens, and trouble shoot it on the phone …..forever ….


That’s just my take on it…….J

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You are so right !
The unintended consequence of going solar...becoming a "not for profit family and friends solar consultant, installer and all hours trouble-shooter!"