diy solar

diy solar

House burned down

And you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
i know what im talking about i use the same type of bms (diy bms /stuart pittaway) its like the batrium but much much cheaper.
my paralel banks have their own seplos bms in dumb protection mode and 70v rated mega fuses on heat resistent fuse holder.

the diy bms communicates over canbus with the inverters. if something goes wrong in the paralel bank the seplos will disconnect it or the mega fuse blows. the fuse holder can resist an eventual arc or heat from the fuse.

additonaly all parts for battery build are flame or heat resistant nothing can burn in that room. all brickwalls and concrete, special cables(not the cheap pvc insulated) and so on...
 
What should I do with my 8 50Ah not DIY batteries that already have a BMS. Since they are only 50 Ah getting 8 Class T's set up would starve my children for a month.

Class T
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/LFT300601C $20 x 3
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Littelfuse-JLLN060-60-Amp-Fast-Acting-Class-T-Power-Fuse-300V $16 x 8

Or mrbf
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bussmann-Eaton/CFBAR1-250SP $9 x 8
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bussmann-Eaton/MRBF-070 $11 x 8

So, class T for $188 or mrbf for $160 - not as bad as you were thinking I am betting. Were it me I would do the class T right off the bus bar.

Save your children's lives ;)


Well, just saw your post, adjust the quantity count and it is very doable.
 
i know what im talking about i use the same type of bms (diy bms /stuart pittaway) its like the batrium but much much cheaper.
my paralel banks have their own seplos bms in dumb protection mode and 70v rated mega fuses on heat resistent fuse holder.

the diy bms communicates over canbus with the inverters. if something goes wrong in the paralel bank the seplos will disconnect it or the mega fuse blows. the fuse holder can resist an eventual arc or heat from the fuse.

additonaly all parts for battery build are flame or heat resistant nothing can burn in that room. all brickwalls and concrete, special cables(not the cheap pvc insulated) and so on...


The OP was using a Mega fuse in a flame resistant housing with batteries sitting on steel shelves. The problem was the fuses didn't extinguish the arc from 6 batteries dumping intonthe 7th. Minimum 750amps and max of 9000amps. That is based on a single cell going to a dead short. Mega fuse of that size style has an AIC of 2500amps.
 
Right on! But I certainly shy away from pressure contact based fuses and holders. Do you think Im overreacting?

At lower amps possibly. They had a few styles. One is a style with a holder and indicator. So it is covered and clipped into place.

When I have dealt with this sort of fuse before it took a screwdriver to pry a dead fuse out of the slot.
 
I have 8 48v 50ah batteries cross wired, in groups of 2 . This gives my 4 wires to each bus bar instead of 8
Should I just get 4 Class T fuses? Why would that be better? I still would have 4 groups of 2 that could feed each other
Two is better than four or eight. You are at least limiting the energy that can be backed to that of a matched unit.
 
The problem was the fuses didn't extinguish the arc from 6 batteries dumping intonthe 7th. Minimum 750amps and max of 9000amps.
the problem was there was no bms in each paralel bank.
have you seen a commercial paralel setup with no bms in each bank?
 
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the problem was there was no bms in each paralel bank.
have you seen a commercial paralel setup with no bms in each bank?

A single BMS would have failed in that situation. Odds of a failure as a short are high. But by that point the fuse had already blown and arced.

Anyways, believe what you want.
 
If he had bought pre-packaged 48v LiFePO4 batteries with UL/CE approvals, this would probably not have happened. But no, he chose to buy 96 280AH cells (!) (from an unspecified source, covered with dodgy "ROHS CE FCC" stickers, battery cells DO NOT require FCC "approval") and connected them in 16s4p (I'm guessing) with a Batrium BMS. Batrium is okay but it was never really meant to control such a large pack. And he doesn't appear to have put insulating sheets between the cells, just clunked them onto cement-board shelves. Then (I presume) patted himself on the back for DIYing such a massive system and saving a fortune.
He was running 16s7p. Personally I think his design needed a watchmon and shunt for each string. Because even if the Batrium noticed problems with a cell(s), triggering a single disconnect that basically just disconnects your loads, but does nothing to disconnect the seven strings from each other.

When he built them back in 2020/2021 insulating sheets between cells apparently wasn't a thing, so it's hard to judge him for that.
 
A single BMS would have failed in that situation.
do you read what i wrote?
one bms in every battery bank AND fuse

my paralel banks have their own seplos bms in dumb protection mode and 70v rated mega fuses on heat resistent fuse holder.

have you seen a commercial paralel setup with no bms in each bank?
guess what...

we are here to learn how to avoid what happened.

if you want to learn the hard way, place your class t fuses and ignore the bms per battery bank

i will try to fit class t 250A fuses in to the lynx power in with a bit modification they should fit
nobody said class t fuses are a bad idea
 
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He was running 16s7p. Personally I think his design needed a watchmon and shunt for each string.
Watchmon still doesn't have even a MOSFET to automatically isolate a string under a detected failure. While different BMS architectures are fine/interesting, fundamentally you need an automatic isolation mechanism, and for anything that does not fail safe with the available fault current you also need the Class T fuse.

All of this may or may not have saved the day, unfortunately. You also have the issue of the string with the failed cell that was replaced; we will. never know if the other 15 cells on the string, or other cells from that lot, had a flaw that caused the primary failure in venting.

This was an extreme design, especially when it was built. That increases risks.
 
The OP was using a Mega fuse in a flame resistant housing with batteries sitting on steel shelves. The problem was the fuses didn't extinguish the arc from 6 batteries dumping intonthe 7th. Minimum 750amps and max of 9000amps. That is based on a single cell going to a dead short. Mega fuse of that size style has an AIC of 2500amps.
I wonder what burned first? The flame resistant fuse holder or the steel shelves?
 
The reason for the following very detailed calculation is to recognize things that are not obvious at first. Of course, after 27 pages of speculation, it's just another one. I apologize in advance for the jumble of numbers.

Assumption: one of the 116 cells has a dendrite breakthrough - nearly shorted

condensed summary mOhm:
cell resistance 0.317
48 V bank: 5.8
six 48V banks: 0.966
45V bank: 5.8 but more
Maximum possible current: 443A

Detailed calculating
of R_Ohmic foreach Cell with its bus bar:
- Cell resistance 4 years old -condition unknown estimated: 0.3 milliohms.
- Each cell terminal compression connection will have 0.05 milliohms of compression contact resistance of approximately 0.05+0.05 milliohms.
- Busbar: 2mm x 20mm x 70mm Nickel plated cooper core is about 0.07milliohms.
(Nickel plating increases the busbar resistance by about 20%)
see left in picture:
https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/good-battery-connecitons-png.135622/
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/raw-cell-busbar-ampacity.80414/#post-1032751
1. Result for one cell : 0.3+0.05+0.05+0.07 =0.317 milliohms.

16 cells: 16 x 0.317 milliohms = 5,072 milliohms
2 x 1,2m 70mm2 wire with cabel lug : 0.348 milliohms
Megafuse350 A Littelfuse resistance 0,13 milliohms
https://www.littelfuse.com/media?re...8&filename=littelfuse-datasheet-mega+32v-r2.5
Fuse holder compression contact resistance and steel : ca 0.25 milliohms
2. Result one 48V bank with 16 cells and 2 x 1,2 m wire and fuse with holder: 5,072+0,348+0.13+0.25= 5.8 milliohms

3. Result of 6 parallel 48V banks 5,8 milliohms : 6 = 0.966 milliohms

4. Result one 45 V bank with 16 cells (one cell 0V assumed nearly 0 ohms shorted) and 2 x 1,2 m wire and fuse with holder: 5,072+0,348+0.13+0.25 = 5.8 milliohms (but more)

Now we should see that the six currents of 6 parallel 48V banks are feeding one 45V bank. The difference is only 3 V and nothing else.

Under these conditions, an absolut maximum current of (48V-45V) 3V !!! /(0.966+5,8 milliohms) = 443A through this one bank and its fuse is possible. 73,88A in each of the 6 other banks.

But the real current could be easely in the 264A....349A Range. E.g. the dendrite resistance in the shorted cell are much more higher than 0 Ohm. 349A x (0.13 + 0.25 milliohm) of the Megafuse and holder = 0.132V. The power consumption and heat dissipation of the red glowing fuse in its holder are now 0.132V x 349A= 46.5 Watt for a very very long time. (continous current)

Conclusion:
See Datasheet above: At a room temperatur of 20C the the maximum permissible continuous current of this 350A fuse is 263A. The range 263A ....349A for this is not allowed, as it is dangerous due to its continous heat dissipation. (greater 350A is allowed because the fuse will break after hours.)

It is clear to me that other conceivable errors can lead to significantly higher currents that would absolutely overwhelm the fuse. E.g.: the internal cell short circuit, which cannot be prevented by any external measure, can also lead to a very undesirable causal chain; enormous heat, hydrogen !!!, gas development, heating of neighboring cells, etc...

Thanks - great forum
 
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Under these conditions, an absolut maximum current of (48V-45V) 3V !!! /(0.966+5,8 milliohms) = 443A through this one bank and its fuse is possible. 73,88A in each of the 6 other banks
Why are you only assuming 3V drop? Take it all the way to zero. 52V/0.0058=8965A per bank.
 
What are you thinking? Why would it be 52?
How much short circuit current each bank can generate. I see the logic now with 3V. But assuming only 1 cell went short may not be what happened later into this event. As one cell goes short and gets hot then neighbor cells will do the same after some time. A cascading failure.
 
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