diy solar

diy solar

New Tariffs in the States

Bop said:
That's less than half the size of the deposit being mined in the Northern Territory here, and the NT mine is only one of 9 currently in operation in Australia, with all the rest currently in Western Australia (most of which are bigger than the new NT mine, which has only been in operation a few years)
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I didnt knew this. How does this affect the prices of batteries in your country? Do you still have to import cells from China for you diy project?
It seems that with all that Lithium abundance you could have very cheap Australian produced batteries and not care about tariffs for the cells, same situation that the US could have. Australia is a very sunny country. Looks like all the ingredients are there for solar utopia.
 
Aridom82 said:
I didnt knew this. How does this affect the prices of batteries in your country? Do you still have to import cells from China for you diy project?
It seems that with all that Lithium abundance you could have very cheap Australian produced batteries and not care about tariffs for the cells, same situation that the US could have. Australia is a very sunny country. Looks like all the ingredients are there for solar utopia.
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No more domestic auto production in Aus so seems unlikely they would set up LFP cell production lines.

I ve seen a few articles where an inventer in Aus has a great product/idea, but ends up having to build it in China or other overseas country because the domestic demand can't justify building it on shore with high wages and difficulty hiring workers etc keeping prices for a domestic solution too high for general adoption.

But apparently you can get a grid tied system installed for less than a $1 per watt there so there's definitely some cheaper equipment overall versus US.
 
Brucey said:
No more domestic auto production in Aus so seems unlikely they would set up LFP cell production lines.

I ve seen a few articles where an inventer in Aus has a great product/idea, but ends up having to build it in China or other overseas country because the domestic demand can't justify building it on shore with high wages and difficulty hiring workers etc keeping prices for a domestic solution too high for general adoption.

But apparently you can get a grid tied system installed for less than a $1 per watt there so there's definitely some cheaper equipment overall versus US.
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There is a small LFP production line being touted, but it would be a flea in comparison to the big existing manufacturers...
Sadly, Australia's governments have since the 1970's, run Australian manufacturing into the ground, and at this point little to none is being 'made in Australia' anymore....
(At one point we had a thriving electronics industry and car manufacturers here... all gone...)

We exported cars around the world from the 1960's onwards (the first Aussie LHD imports into the US were in 1960 into Hawaii!!!)- if you owned a late model Chevrolet SS or got a ride in the back of a Caprice PPV (police car) made before 2017 (bad boys, bad boys, what ya gunna do...) or owned a Pontiac G7- thats an Aussie built car... all made in Melbourne...

The last Chevrolet SS ever made in Australia...
1715429513221.png
The Caprice PPV (better known in Australia as the Holden Statesman in RHD form) also made in Australia...
1715429723016.png
All gone...

The chances of a successful LFP battery being developed and manufactured in Australia these days- buckleys...
😭
 
As for Aussie solar prices- well a 6.6kw gridtie is just over $2000 US..
Thats from picking up the phone or dropping an email, to sitting back and watching it power your house... (and that is literally the only thing you have to do- no 'permits' or negotiating with electric companies trying to get approvals...)
1715430697106.png
1715430853310.png1715430871935.png

A 6.6kw near zeros many houses electricity bills (makes about 40kWh a day, while the 13.2kW system would take a massive house here in Australia to not handle its electric bills... it makes about 80kWh a day)

I see people quoting $20k US, $30k US, or even more for their entire system (one recently was $60k US for the entire system up and running... 🤯 and I'm thinking- what the hell are these systems- gold frames and diamond glass????)
 
... and the Utility companies lobby for this aggressively. CEO bonuses are at stake here folks! Have some mercy.
 
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Reactions: Bop
So a 100% tariff on batteries would mean doubling the cost for us? I am not sure if there is some funky math that makes it 100% on a particular portion divided by the chance of a full moon on a stormy summer evening in Nebraska or other weird illogical math these guys like coming up with.
 
OpenNRG said:
How can you keep politics out of this thread.

It isn't an act of God doing it. It's the F****** politicians. They ruin everything!!
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That does seem a little dumb doesn't it...
It wasn't the US consumers that brought in the tariffs, it wasn't the Chinese manufacturers that brought in the tariffs, it wasn't 'little green from Mars' or the Galactic Federation....

Guess who it was????
 
SparkyJJO said:
So a 100% tariff on batteries would mean doubling the cost for us? I am not sure if there is some funky math that makes it 100% on a particular portion divided by the chance of a full moon on a stormy summer evening in Nebraska or other weird illogical math these guys like coming up with.
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Yes- thats how tariffs work...
If a particular item costs $100, and a 100% tariff is put on it- then the total tariff is also $100...
Making the total price $200 (doubling the price)
That's the way tariffs have been calculated since I was a kid... (and thats just when i became aware of how they worked)
 
Bop said:
Yes- thats how tariffs work...
If a particular item costs $100, and a 100% tariff is put on it- then the total tariff is also $100...
Making the total price $200 (doubling the price)
That's the way tariffs have been calculated since I was a kid... (and thats just when i became aware of how they worked)
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Just making sure it wasn't stupid politician math.
 
In the past I have seen China get round tariffs by subsidising the manufacturer with hidden subsidies. Rebates on local business taxes so the local govt pays them to be located in their area and still gets all local services free. Rebates on export selling prices so they only need to have an external buyer on the invoice and they can charge 50% or local price and get the missing 50% back as a rebate from the Chinese Government.
 
Bop said:
As for Aussie solar prices- well a 6.6kw gridtie is just over $2000 US..
Thats from picking up the phone or dropping an email, to sitting back and watching it power your house... (and that is literally the only thing you have to do- no 'permits' or negotiating with electric companies trying to get approvals...)
View attachment 214680
View attachment 214682View attachment 214683
Click to expand...

I was wondering ... and the ad says right there, "Rebate"

So maybe rooftop solar isn't cheaper in Australia (except for lack of red tape.)
Surely imported hardware costs just as much (except for tariffs), and labor rates probably not that much different.

Are your solar prices due to major subsidies, either paid by taxpayer, or pollution taxes, or purchase of clean energy credits?

50% rebate


And more,
"The subsidies initially included a national rebate of A$8,000 for a small 1kW array – more than the sticker price in parts of the country. "

www.theguardian.com

‘Go hard and go big’: How Australia got solar panels onto one in every three houses

Households have continued to use state help that was first created more than a decade ago
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
OpenNRG said:
How can you keep politics out of this thread.
Click to expand...

Simple: by discussing the implications of a price increase, and the facts surrounding it and not delving into "It's the F****** politicians. ". We know that, the decision is made. No point in discussing that because guaranteed this will devolve into a heated argument about 'your favorite political party', 'China bad', and a bunch of stuff and gets this thread nowhere but the 'chit-chat zone'.
 
wpns said:
Tariffs are paid on entry, so anything sitting in a US warehouse won’t cost any more.
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If only this were true.

When the steel tariffs hit several years ago, the cost of a 10' piece of 12ga 2" slotted angle went from $11 per stick to $55. When arguing with my supplier about it, I asked him if the $55 pieces were in the warehouse BEFORE the tariffs hit.

He wasn't thinking and said "Well, yeah."

I asked what was wrong with that picture. He didn't get it.

I switched to EMT to build racking and no longer buy from that guy.

Free enterprise run amuck - screw everyone as much as possible, especially if you have a convenient scapegoat.
 
OpenNRG said:
How can you keep politics out of this thread.

It isn't an act of God doing it. It's the F****** politicians. They ruin everything!!
Click to expand...
The tarrifs are a political decision, but discussing political parties responsible or favoring one vs other cannot be discussed. It will throw off the topic.
 
v_green57 said:
If only this were true.

When the steel tariffs hit several years ago, the cost of a 10' piece of 12ga 2" slotted angle went from $11 per stick to $55. When arguing with my supplier about it, I asked him if the $55 pieces were in the warehouse BEFORE the tariffs hit.

He wasn't thinking and said "Well, yeah."

I asked what was wrong with that picture. He didn't get it.

I switched to EMT to build racking and no longer buy from that guy.

Free enterprise run amuck - screw everyone as much as possible, especially if you have a convenient scapegoat.
Click to expand...

It doesnt seem to make sense, but it does...

Material hike, instantly reflected on pricing, material price dip also reflected instantly...
Gotta afford the inventory to keep stocked.

Same thing with gas prices...

Gulf war hits, stations and refineries instantly raise prices to cover future costs...

Even though all the fuel was in place before the price hike...

Companies have to be able to buy replacement inventory with funds from the current sales.
And price drops also instantly reflected to keep up with competition.

It sucks.
Its true.
 
Supervstech said:
Material hike, instantly reflected on pricing, material price dip also reflected instantly...
Gotta afford the inventory to keep stocked.

Same thing with gas prices...

Gulf war hits, stations and refineries instantly raise prices to cover future costs...
Click to expand...
You missed a step. When oil prices drop, it takes a lot longer for the 'expensive' oil to work its way through the refinery process and the other supply chains. Gas prices _always_ rise immediately on oil price hikes, but _never_ fall for weeks after price cuts.
 
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