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Can Solar & Wind Fix Everything (e.g., Climate Change) with a battery break-through?



The cover of Rifkin’s 2003 book.

Reed and Eddy ignore the energy intensity of making hydrogen, only offering that by using “electricity to split water” the electrolyzer “produces hydrogen, a carbon-free gas that could help power mills like the one in Duisburg.” That’s true. But how much electricity is needed? And where the heck is German industry, which is already being hammered by expensive gas and power, going to get the juice? At what cost? Those questions are not addressed.

To be clear, lots of other media outlets are hyping hydrogen. And the hype is surging because of fat government subsidies. Reed and Eddy explain that the German government has earmarked some $14.2 billion “for investment in about two dozen projects to develop hydrogen.” Here in the U.S., the 45V tax credit in the Inflation Reduction Act provides lucrative subsidies for hydrogen production. Big business is lining up to get those subsidies. In February, energy giant Exxon Mobil warned that it might cancel a proposed hydrogen project at its Baytown, Texas refinery depending on how the Treasury Department interpreted the “clean” hydrogen rules in the IRA.

Regardless of tax credits and subsidies, making and using hydrogen is a high-entropy, high-cost process. As a friend in the oil refining business told me last year, “If you like $6-per-gallon gasoline, you’re gonna love $14-to-$20-per-gallon hydrogen.”

As for Brick’s “thermodynamic obscenity” line, the numbers — which I’ll examine in a moment — are easy to understand. Hydrogen is insanely expensive, in energy terms, to manufacture. It takes about three units of energy, in the form of electricity, to produce two units of hydrogen energy. In other words, the hydrogen economy requires scads of electricity (a high quality form of energy) to make a tiny molecule that’s hard to handle, difficult to store, and expensive to use.

Among the biggest challenges in handling and storing the gas is the problem of “hydrogen embrittlement,” which can occur when metals are exposed to hydrogen. That means we can’t use existing gas pipelines or tanks to move and store the gas. As for using the gas, yes, it can be blended with natural gas and put into turbines or reciprocating engines. However, the best way to use it is in a fuel cell. And from where will those devices come? I’m old enough to collect Social Security. I’ve been reporting about the energy sector for nearly four decades, and yet, in all that time, I’ve seen precisely three fuel cells.

How much would the hydrogen economy cost? In 2020, Bloomberg NEF estimated that producing enough “green” hydrogen to meet 25% of global energy demand would require “more electricity than the world now generates from all sources and an investment of $11 trillion in production and storage.”

The obscene thermodynamics of hydrogen can be understood by looking at an announcement made last year by Constellation Energy. According to a March 10, 2023 article in Nuclear NewsWire, a new hydrogen production project at the company’s Nine Mile Point nuclear plant in New York, “is part of a $14.5 million cost-shared project between Constellation and the Department of Energy.” Of that sum, $5.8 million was coming from the DOE. The article explained that “Using 1.25 megawatts of zero-carbon energy per hour,” the plant’s electrolyzer will produce “560 kilograms of clean hydrogen per day.”

The math is simple. The plant uses 30 megawatt-hours of electricity to produce 560 kg of hydrogen per day. One MWh of electricity is equal to 3,600 megajoules of energy, and one kg of hydrogen contains about 130 MJ of energy. Therefore, Nine Mile Point uses 108,000 MJ of electricity to produce 72,800 MJ of hydrogen, or 1.5 MJ of electricity for 1 MJ of hydrogen.

Such a lousy EROEI (energy return on energy invested) should immediately disqualify hydrogen from serious energy policy discussions. But that, of course, hasn’t happened. It must also be noted that the EROEI is worse than what I stated above because the hydrogen, once produced, must be stored and fed back into another energy conversion device to make electricity or heat. In that process, more energy will be lost.

I’ll end with a bit more history. In 2004, the National Research Council and the National Academy of Engineering published a 267-page report called “The Hydrogen Economy: Opportunities, Costs, Barriers, and R&D Needs.” In the concluding section, the report said, “making hydrogen from renewable energy through the intermediate step of making electricity, a premium energy source, requires further breakthroughs in order to be competitive.” It continued:

There are major hurdles on the path to achieving the vision of the hydrogen economy; the path will not be simple or straightforward. Many of the committee’s observations generalize across the entire hydrogen economy: the hydrogen system must be cost-competitive, it must be safe and appealing to the consumer, and it would preferably offer advantages from the perspectives of energy security and CO2 emissions. Specifically for the transportation sector, dramatic progress in the development of fuel cells, storage devices, and distribution systems is especially critical. Widespread success is not certain.
Widespread success of the hydrogen economy wasn’t certain in 2004, and it’s not certain now. Or, to put it in ecclesiastical terms, there’s nothing new under the hydrogen sun.
 
D71, I got to believe Darwin's idea of natural selection did not include brain size
his was strongest(biggest club for humans) but, humans have been circumventing
nature for a long long time, humans have even found a way to destroy nature on a whim
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and it's also true we have circumvented natural selection by strength by giving everyone the
power of our federal government, nature never envisioned public schools or even the local police.

not sure 100000yr old information is much use today, if your talking about sea turtles or jack rabbits maybe
but not humans.

but the video was entertaining, just not factual.

in the real world the smartest among us could come from the most dysfunctional family or be born with
a silver spoon(mud huts or gold toilets) .
Man defining has and will lead to Carl Sagan method. Never fear the UN tried to and did pass resolutions to disarm countries with nukes. Wonder why? 🤣 About liketelling all ppl to turn in guns … the Rich Elite will still have their armed security details. In the event of a real nuke you know ppl like Soros will have his stink dusty ass taking up a spot in the shelters. He and his type are wealthy because they figured out the slow screw. Then “they” bought the right ppl to promote and push their agendas. A king with no Army is not a ruler…and their wealth is subject to be taken….stolen. In days of old the King was often a bad mf’er that surrounded himself with bad mf’ers. Now we have ppl like Gates and Zuckerbucks surrounded by armed security. Imagine them taking up a spot in fall out shelters.

Mostly likely after an event the ppl in charge of security will end their rule. It is not hard to eliminate a midget. Hmmmm … I’m not buying it. Zelensky suspend elections for his reign and we allowed it. We have a whole lot of problems because we then sent him billions more dollars vs pulling our selves up and fixing here. In the end Ukraine will end and we will also pay to rebuild all of it. More money not spent here. Are you getting it yet?

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China had its hottest year on record in 2023
Opinion: Obviously the whole world did (see NASA Analysis Confirms 2023 as Warmest Year on Record), but that global average... so some places were normal and some were cooler.

Climate Change equals more home runs (15 unexpected effects of climate change)

PragerU's anti-climate "kid videos" claim that those who promote climate science are comparable to the Nazis who operated the Warsaw Ghetto


If we want to reduce CO2 ..... we better stop ignoring the elephant [china]...

Last year China installed more renewables than the rest of the world put together (see How China Became the World's Leader on Renewable Energy). The country that seems to concern most now a days is India. The reason is that India's growth curve looks like China's growth curve a quarter century ago and some of their leaders were none to polite when it suggested they might not want to grow fossil fuel usage, suggesting back that it was a problem western countries created in growing their economic wealth and they could clean up their mess.

For many nations, fossil fuels bring an unwelcome dependence on other nations. Now that renewable LCOEs are on par, there's no reason to not take advantage of them. It's not like China deployed all that renewable because they're worried about the climate, it's because it's cheaper, reduces the air pollution, and it reduces reliance on others.

There's also international interest in India's elections because of the politics. While Trump is scrounging for money by promising to end EVs, those same fossil fuel companies are making plays in India. India also has their own fossil fuel industry, which had aggressive climate changes goals (and is back-sliding).

Personally, I don't think we have to worry about India just because of the changing economics around renewables. India has a good relationship with China, China has a glut of panels and EVs that India needs. India even recently removed restrictions on the import of EVs (ref). While many parts of India are ideal for wind power, the country doesn't have a strong national grid like the U.S. does. Distributed microfarms comprise the majority of their solar, and they want to push more roof-top solar (ref).

At least that is what I think is going on based on articles. If any readers live in India would love to here their thoughts as to what's going on.
 
China had its hottest year on record in 2023
Opinion: Obviously the whole world did (see NASA Analysis Confirms 2023 as Warmest Year on Record), but that global average... so some places were normal and some were cooler.

Climate Change equals more home runs (15 unexpected effects of climate change)

PragerU's anti-climate "kid videos" claim that those who promote climate science are comparable to the Nazis who operated the Warsaw Ghetto





Last year China installed more renewables than the rest of the world put together (see How China Became the World's Leader on Renewable Energy). The country that seems to concern most now a days is India. The reason is that India's growth curve looks like China's growth curve a quarter century ago and some of their leaders were none to polite when it suggested they might not want to grow fossil fuel usage, suggesting back that it was a problem western countries created in growing their economic wealth and they could clean up their mess.

For many nations, fossil fuels bring an unwelcome dependence on other nations. Now that renewable LCOEs are on par, there's no reason to not take advantage of them. It's not like China deployed all that renewable because they're worried about the climate, it's because it's cheaper, reduces the air pollution, and it reduces reliance on others.

I guess it all depends on what is being measured ...... per the graph the CO2 output from Asia is still on a vertical rise and dwarfs that of all other nations.
 
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Many of the ‘Climate Experts’ Surveyed by the Guardian in Recent Propaganda Blitz Turn Out to be Emotionally-Unstable Hysterics​






The Guardian last week published its survey of ‘climate experts’. The results are a predictable mush of fire-and-brimstone predictions and emotional incontinence. This stunt may have convinced those already aligned to the newspaper’s ideological agenda to redouble their characteristically shrill rhetoric, but encouraging scientists to speculate and emote about the future of the planet looks like an act of political desperation, not scientific communication.

For the purposes of creating this story, the Guardian’s Environment Editor Damian Carrington contacted 843 ‘lead authors’ of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s reports (IPCC) and 383 responded to his questions. The actual substance of the survey does not seem to have been published by the paper, but the main response Carrington wanted to get from his respondents was an estimate of how much global warming there will be by the end of the century. “World’s top climate scientists expect global heating to blast past 1.5ºC target,” claims one headline. A graphic in the article shows the responses:
Screenshot-2024-05-12-at-23.55.19-1024x373.png

The obvious problem this raises is that such a wide range of views on the next three quarters of a century discredits the notion that the IPCC represents a ‘scientific consensus’ on climate change. The ‘consensus’ – the putative expression of agreement by the worlds ‘top climate scientists’ – is the lynchpin of the narrative, epitomised by the Guardian, that the climate debate is between scientists and denialists. “Seventy seven per cent of climate scientists expect a rise of at least 2.5ºC,” explains the chart. Well, yeah, but 23% of climate scientists do not. And a good number of those connected to the IPCC believe that there will be just 1.5 degrees of warming – a third less warming than is anticipated by their colleagues at the other end of the spectrum. Clearly, there is, or needs to be, a debate.

This in turn raises the question of why this survey was necessary at all. The IPCC’s main output is an Assessment Report (AR), of which six have so far been produced since 1990. Each AR consists of three main volumes, each produced by a Working Group (WG), whose focus is on assessing the available research on “the physical science” (WG1), impacts and vulnerabilities (WG2), and mitigation options (WG3). A Guardian opinion survey is hardly going to shed any light on science that these scientists, who authored the reports, have not already published. It would seem rather silly to ignore the thousands of pages of summaries of the state of scientific understanding that hundreds of scientists and other experts have compiled and substitute it with a DIY opinion poll.

Opinion isn’t science. Even scientific opinion is not science. Yet Carrington seems to believe that tapping into the emotions of scientists is of greater value than reading their work. And all sorts of mush seems to have been unleashed by his project. “‘I am starting to panic about my child’s future’: climate scientists wary of starting families,” claims one headline based on the survey. According to the article, the victim of the panic is a Professor Lisa Schipper, whom Carrington describes as “an expert on climate vulnerability”. Schipper’s profile, however, reveals her actual occupation: “I am particularly interested in socio-cultural dimensions of vulnerability, including gender, culture and religion, as well as structural issues related to power, justice and equity.” I’m smelling a rat here, and more than a whiff of humbug. Schipper is not a climate scientist at all, as Carrington seems to imply in both his headline and his article.
Another article – an interactive page on the Guardian website – claims: “We asked 380 top climate scientists what they felt about the future.” The article quotes, among others, Lorraine Whitmarsh from the University of Bath, who tells Carrington:
[Climate change] is an existential threat to humanity and [lack of] political will and vested corporate interests are preventing us addressing it. I do worry about the future my children are inheriting.
But Whitmarsh is not a climate scientist either. According to her academic profile at Bath, She did a BA in Theology and Religious Studies with French at the University of Kent, graduating in 1997. She followed this with a Masters in ‘Science, Culture and Communication’, before completing a PhD in Psychology in 2005. Now Director of the Centre for Climate Change and Social Transformations (CAST), Whitmarsh researches “perceptions and behaviour in relation to climate change, energy and transport” and “regularly advises governmental and other organisations on low-carbon behaviour change and climate change communication”.
 
I have discussed the nature of climate psychologists’ work before in the Daily Sceptic. And of course, CAST is of that lofty academic milieu which wraps naked Stalinism in motherhood-and-apple-pie. “We want to work closely with people and organisations to achieve positive low-carbon futures — transforming the way we live our lives, and reconfiguring organisations and cities,” says the group’s website. What it doesn’t have an answer to, however, is people who do not share CAST’s radical ideology and do not want their lives, cities or organisations transformed or reconfigured by self-regarding shrinks – who are manifestly the ones in need of help.

There are of course a number of respondents with scientific backgrounds who have replied to Carrington. But these scientific credentials do not seem to have made those who own them any more rational. “Sometimes it is almost impossible not to feel hopeless and broken,” says climate scientist Ruth Cerezo-Mota, who at least appears to have a PhD in Atmospheric, Oceanic and Planetary Physics, “after all the flooding, fires, and droughts of the last three years worldwide, all related to climate change…”
But perhaps Cerezo-Mota forgot to read IPCC AR 6 in which her colleagues conclude that any detectable increase in floods and meteorological and hydrological droughts cannot be attributed with confidence to anthropogenic climate change. And perhaps she forgot that two decades of wildfire data in all regions of the world show significant declines.
I think it is probably for the best that such nervous wrecks do not reproduce. Their grasp on the data is particularly myopic. Despite their apparent belief that the climate crisis is upon us, life for children born in recent years is immeasurably better that of earlier generations. Rather than being dominated by the weather, today’s children are not only far more likely to survive their fifth birthday, they are going to live longer, healthier, wealthier and safer lives than any generation before them.
Screenshot-2024-05-13-at-00.15.52-1024x787.png

That is, unless these crazy climate scientists get their way. Because they would strip away every last benefit of industry, capitalism,and freedom to ‘save the planet’, and deny those children the abundant and affordable resources that has created their historically unprecedented position.
It goes further than humbug. I sense very little data and science underpins their anti-natalism, but a great deal of ideology and manipulation. So how can we explain these scientists’ views, if we don’t believe that they emerge from science?

One answer might be that, for nearly 40 years now, green ideology has been poured into classrooms throughout the world, without any care for the consequences. It has largely bounced off most people. But several generations of children have now come up through this system into the adult world, through higher education. The institutions of climate and environmental science have increasingly become the centres to which unhinged individuals are drawn. Emotionally unstable people naturally seek reasons to explain their dysphoria and believing there is a crisis unfolding in the skies above their heads (rather than in them) is a way to explain their anxieties. After all, if you were not a climate loon, why would you volunteer your time to the IPCC? Gradually, rational views have been weeded out of these institutions.

I believe that is the implication of Carrington’s series of Guardian articles and his survey. It shows that people with no scientific expertise to speak of are nonetheless routinely presented as ‘scientists’ and experts. It shows that even those with scientific expertise will happily and radically depart from both the consensus position and the objective data on both meteorological events and their societal impacts. And it shows they have no reluctance to use their own emotional distress as leverage to coerce others. Carrington thinks that showing us scientists’ emotional troubles will convince us to share their anxiety. But all it shows is that it would be deeply foolish to defer to the authority of climate science. It’s an unstable mess. Science must be cool, calm, rational, detached and disinterested, or it is just a silly soap opera.
 
Calling CO2 plant food is simply irrelevant to the problem global warming due to massive amounts of greenhouse gases we pump into the atmosphere, as no one is arguing to remove CO2 from the atmosphere to pre-industrial levels. So what is the purpose of describing CO2 as plant food, if not an attempt to obfuscate the issue at hand? It is like arguing that water is necessary for plant growth whenever a toddler drowns.

Get with the times, we have not called it global warming in a very long time. That term went out of fashion in 2009 with "Climategate" where we all found out they lied about the data they are collecting.

 
There is no manmade climate crisis or any kind of climate "crisis". The whole thing is hoax, end of story.
The only crisis we have is that of egotistic parasites and psychopaths who want to control everyone.

After all, we all know that climate change makes for shorter winters . . . except for when it makes for harsher winters.
And climate change means less snow . . . except for when climate change means more snow.
And climate change causes droughts in California and floods in Texas and Oklahoma, and generally makes wet places wetter and dry places drier, except when it makes wet places drier and dry places wetter.
And climate change causes more hurricanes at the same time as it causes fewer hurricanes.
Climate change causes more rain, but less water? . . . And less rain, but more water?
Climate change decreases the spread of malaria at the same time as it increases the spread of malaria. (But don’t worry! The Terminator himself advises us not to listen to those climate change cynics, hey guys?)
Climate change makes San Francisco foggier.
Climate change makes San Francisco less foggy.
Climate change causes duller autumn leaves.
Climate changes causes more colourful autumn leaves.
Climate change makes for less salty seas.
Climate change makes for saltier seas.
Climate change causes the polar ice caps to melt.
Climate change causes the polar ice caps to freeze.
Climate change makes the earth hotter, unless the earth isn’t getting hotter, in which case climate change can explain that, too!
 
Anytime you hear anyone talking about "Reducing Carbon" or anything "Carbon" you immediately know they are in on the scam.
End of story.

The only carbon they want to eliminate is you.
 
There is no manmade climate crisis or any kind of climate "crisis". The whole thing is hoax, end of story.
aenyc, let me fix that for you

There is no manmade climate crisis or any kind of climate "crisis for us in the USA today.
tomorrow's problems are not on us, end of story.
 

That data doesn't seem to match up with the data I found ..... I wonder which is propaganda and which is real?

From the chart below, it you assume that CO2 is the cause of climate change ..... and you look at where the radical increase in CO2 output is coming from .... it's pretty obvious what the problem is.
The US hasn't outputted the largest amount of CO2 since 2000 and is on the decline.
It's not cow flatulence.

1715624021672.png
 
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aenyc, let me fix that for you

There is no manmade climate crisis or any kind of climate "crisis for us in the USA today.
tomorrow's problems are not on us, end of story.

There is no "climate crisis" today OR tomorrow.
The REAL problem of tomorrow is stuff i mentioned - geoengineering, bioengineering, pollution and sensorship. Now THESE are REAL problems both today, and especially tomorrow.

This is the stuff you SHOULD be worried about.

"I'm obviously most worried about bird flu. Right now, it takes five amino acid changes for it to be effectively infecting humans. That's a pretty heavy species barrier - but this virus is already in 26 mammal species, as you most recently saw cattle. But in the laboratory, I could make it highly infectious for humans in just months."
"That's the real threat. That's the real biosecurity threat that these university labs are doing bio-experiments that are intentionally modifying viruses - and I think bird flu is going to be the cause of the Great Pandemic - where they're teaching these viruses to be more infectious for humans."

"It's notable that Redfield made these statements just a couple of weeks after on Courageous Discourse we warned about the USDA/China Doing Gain-of-Function Work on H5N1 Bird Flu Since 2021," cardiologist Peter McCullough wrote on X.

Former CDC Director Robert Redfield:

1). “I’m obviously most worried about bird flu.”

2). “Right now it takes a five amino acid change to make it effectively infecting humans.”

3). “That’s a pretty heavy species barrier…”

4). “But in the laboratory, I could make it highly… pic.twitter.com/PYpKD2v0SN
— Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH® (@P_McCulloughMD) May 13, 2024
As the source of the virus transmission to dairy cattle remains unconfirmed, the potential for human-to-human infections looms. In such a scenario, it becomes crucial to monitor the role of universities in gain-of-function research closely.
 
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Bob, or one represents cumulative co2 levels, I'm checking now
China is outputting a radical amount of CO2 and still increasing at almost a veridical rate .... India is coming on strong. If the politicians want to solve "a CO2 problem" they need to focus where the increase is coming from instead of trying to eliminate cow farts.
 
China is outputting a radical amount of CO2 and still increasing at almost a veridical rate .... India is coming on strong.
Bob, both are still building coal fired energy plants at about 1 per week, while we have not added more coal
to our mix in 20yrs, we could point a finger at them, but they may remind us we became rich striping the
resources from our lands and dumping the waste in the air and on world, they may through back at you
"look what you did to lake Erie"
"look what you did to bikini islands"

Capture492.PNG

I'm not pushing CCT ,but we do have a checkered environmental past.

the way we are doing it, by example (push EV, reduce fossil fuels) is the right approach IMO

both china and India once their people can eat will look at our example for their long term survival.
 
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Bob, both are still building coal fired energy plants at about 1 per week, while we have not added more coal
to our mix in 20yrs, we could point a finger at them, but they may remind us we became rich striping the
resources from our lands and dumping the waste in the air and on world, they may through back at you
"look what you did to lake Erie"
"look what you did to bikini islands"

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I'm not pushing CCT ,but we do have a checkered environmental past.

the way we are doing it, by example (push EV, reduce fossil fuels) is the right approach IMO

both china and India once their people can eat will look at our example for their long term survival.

You are trying to expand the discussion into a bunch of strawman arguments ...... To me it's very simple ..... If the goal is REALLY to decrease CO2 in the atmosphere, it is clear that the effort should be concentrated on where there is the biggest bang for the buck so to speak.

You also jump right to the conclusion that the answer would be to punish China.
 
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