diy solar

diy solar

DIY PowerWall

Floma

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Joined
Sep 23, 2019
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2
Hi there,
I have the opportunity to buy the entire 85kWh battery of a crashed Tesla S (55000km or 35000 miles on the clock) for about 9200 USD. I do have a 11kWp solar panel on my roof and I consume about 11000kWh annually.
Is it possible/reasonable to build a big PowerWall? I read your article on the 5,4 kWh battery solution, can this be scaled up?
Be warned I have no knowledge or experience with electricity (beyond changing a light bulb or connecting a bicycle light?).
F
 
Hi there,
I have the opportunity to buy the entire 85kWh battery of a crashed Tesla S (55000km or 35000 miles on the clock) for about 9200 USD. I do have a 11kWp solar panel on my roof and I consume about 11000kWh annually.
Is it possible/reasonable to build a big PowerWall?
Yes!!!!
Be warned I have no knowledge or experience with electricity (beyond changing a light bulb or connecting a bicycle light?).
Um, so, sort of no, then. Someday that could begin to change. That depends on a lot of factors, even today, though. For instance, just because someone has only changed a light bulb doesn't mean they don't already have the intuition and intelligence to know how to do much more, but often someone wealthy enough to have access to a Model S pack (so likely intelligent) and still not have experimented with electronics is likely not interested in that sort of thing and wouldn't have the built in drive and intuition that matches those skills (construction, math, engineering, detailed, boring, dangerous, etc.).

Unfortunately, it requires a lot of construction, computer programming, and electrical skills. A lot of people want the marketplace to bridge that gap, and within a few years, I think it may, but right now, only "tinkerers and inventors" are working on it (using the words of Jack below).

I've most recently been watching EVTV for this, but a lot of people are doing it. I'm going to use EVTV as an example, and you can use plenty of other examples as you find them.

Currently, http://evtv.me/ has switched from doing car EV conversions to tinkering around and inventing various products centered around what you're discussing. However, he can't do product support, so he only wants those who are already pretty skilled getting his DIY products together. Alternatively, his fully built packages are very expensive and he doesn't make many of them, plus he still has to source the modules. It's a bad fit all around.

I think some other products and trailblazers may help, but let's at least talk about what I have heard of recently from EVTV, and then you can start to understand what alternative equipment providers have to offer in comparison, which is probably similar.

Here's just some talk about doing it:

While the optimal way to do it is use the full pack as is without taking it apart, the support for that approach has never been good by inverter manufacturers (they should fix that!!!), but it's still possible, but less supported. Having said that, you can also take the pack apart and do the usual various parallel setups. I wouldn't call either method "wrong", but no one today really supports the "right" way to do it, and now the "practical" way is just to split it apart and parallel them (in 2 series groups).

You could spend days watching videos on EVTV (linked above under "archive"), reading what wk057 did at http://wk057.solar/ (hunt around that site for his TMC forum links), and still not have read about every way someone's done it and not know enough to know what to do.

It looks like the best way to do it today is break open your Model S pack (boooo! such a waste ...) and go the 2S route. Note that you have to use specialized inverters and BMS equipment such as available here:


Here's parts of an email the owner of that store sent me regarding that approach:
{...}

I kind of lost the high voltage/low voltage debate. {...} And we're pretty much working it because the urge to experiment and grow is much stronger than the urge to just go after the simplest and most obvious end solution is. The Model S modules are plentiful, reasonably cheap and about the size and weight of a large piece of firewood.

And that has led us to 48v systems where you can start at two or four modules and work your way up from there as to adding capacity.

We offer a 15 kW inverter that has the ability to remotely shut off Solar Edge inverters and charge the batteries using AC coupling from the Solar Edge.

http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=Vicor

This provides enough power for most homes.

We have a controller that can operate from 2 Tesla Model S modules to 62 simply using different combinations of wiring harnesses.

http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=esp32bms

Please download and read the User Guide for this product and it provides a lot of basic information you might find useful.

And so you wind up with those two products and two or four modules as a starter system to learn and experiment with. It can be expanded to a couple hundred kWh of storage if necessary. And most people rig it up where they can use their existing grid system or their experimental by simply setting a switch. https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-DTNF...ole+double+throw+switch&qid=1569091676&sr=8-2

Hope this helps.

Jack Rickard
Since you have an opportunity for a full pack, you would start rather large, obviously (numerically speaking; you would break it into modules using the 2S route).

Most steps mentioned above have days worth of YouTubes, books, forum posts, etc. Reading them all could take months. That would be more than enough for someone with the right skills already. Some programming is required.
 
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Wow thank you guys for all the information. I’ll better think about it yet another time. “Likely not interested [enough] in that sort of thing” ? hits the nail on the head I’m afraid... Was looking for a short cut that seams unrealistic.

Thanks again ?
 
Wow thank you guys for all the information. I’ll better think about it yet another time. “Likely not interested [enough] in that sort of thing” ? hits the nail on the head I’m afraid... Was looking for a short cut that seams unrealistic.

Thanks again ?
You welcome my friend, we're here to help anyone.
 
Here's my install. I used a 60kW pack which I paid more for than your 85kW so that's a hell of a deal.

Can it be done? Yes.
Can it be done after reading this?
Be warned I have no knowledge or experience with electricity (beyond changing a light bulb or connecting a bicycle light?).
If you study NEC,Local codes, and Google a ton of stuff probably. If you're not comfortable with electricity then. No, it is not possible.
 
Wow thank you guys for all the information. I’ll better think about it yet another time. “Likely not interested [enough] in that sort of thing” ? hits the nail on the head I’m afraid... Was looking for a short cut that seams unrealistic.

Thanks again ?
That is an amazing price on the bank though... the individual modules sell for over 1200 every day... you are getting 16... so, abut 10K in profit selling the modules there...
 
Hi there,
I have the opportunity to buy the entire 85kWh battery of a crashed Tesla S (55000km or 35000 miles on the clock) for about 9200 USD. I do have a 11kWp solar panel on my roof and I consume about 11000kWh annually.
Is it possible/reasonable to build a big PowerWall? I read your article on the 5,4 kWh battery solution, can this be scaled up?
Be warned I have no knowledge or experience with electricity (beyond changing a light bulb or connecting a bicycle light?).
F
11Mwh a year = ~30Kwh per day
85Kwh / 24 = ~3.5 days you can run your house without any battery recharging.

We usually consider about 4 to 5 hours a day of sunlight in the poorest areas of the US so I'll use this.

At 11Kw of PV in one hour you will produce 11Kw of energy times 5 = 11Kwh.
85/11 = ~7.7 hours to recharge your system or about 1-1/2 days.

Just for reference systems are designed for about 24 hours of backup, 48 the most. You can certainly run with an 85Kwh pack but if it were me I'd run with half of that unless you are off the grid entirely which I don't advise.
In my systems my backup is just for times when the power fails in my areas which is several times a year. This way your battery backup isn't constantly cycling on a daily basis. What you ideally want to do is sell all the energy back to the grid you can after your needs are met which I do. This depends on your energy rates of course, if you have high rates there is a break point where it's in your favor to run powerwalls at certain hours of the day.

Without experience installing an 85Kwh backup is quite a task. Depending on your charge controllers and inverters you can get in real trouble figuring charging algorithms and that's not including wiring everything up.
 
Take a look at:

 
Yes!!!!

Um, so, sort of no, then. Someday that could begin to change. That depends on a lot of factors, even today, though. For instance, just because someone has only changed a light bulb doesn't mean they don't already have the intuition and intelligence to know how to do much more, but often someone wealthy enough to have access to a Model S pack (so likely intelligent) and still not have experimented with electronics is likely not interested in that sort of thing and wouldn't have the built in drive and intuition that matches those skills (construction, math, engineering, detailed, boring, dangerous, etc.).

Unfortunately, it requires a lot of construction, computer programming, and electrical skills. A lot of people want the marketplace to bridge that gap, and within a few years, I think it may, but right now, only "tinkerers and inventors" are working on it (using the words of Jack below).

I've most recently been watching EVTV for this, but a lot of people are doing it. I'm going to use EVTV as an example, and you can use plenty of other examples as you find them.

Currently, http://evtv.me/ has switched from doing car EV conversions to tinkering around and inventing various products centered around what you're discussing. However, he can't do product support, so he only wants those who are already pretty skilled getting his DIY products together. Alternatively, his fully built packages are very expensive and he doesn't make many of them, plus he still has to source the modules. It's a bad fit all around.

I think some other products and trailblazers may help, but let's at least talk about what I have heard of recently from EVTV, and then you can start to understand what alternative equipment providers have to offer in comparison, which is probably similar.

Here's just some talk about doing it:

While the optimal way to do it is use the full pack as is without taking it apart, the support for that approach has never been good by inverter manufacturers (they should fix that!!!), but it's still possible, but less supported. Having said that, you can also take the pack apart and do the usual various parallel setups. I wouldn't call either method "wrong", but no one today really supports the "right" way to do it, and now the "practical" way is just to split it apart and parallel them (in 2 series groups).

You could spend days watching videos on EVTV (linked above under "archive"), reading what wk057 did at http://wk057.solar/ (hunt around that site for his TMC forum links), and still not have read about every way someone's done it and not know enough to know what to do.

It looks like the best way to do it today is break open your Model S pack (boooo! such a waste ...) and go the 2S route. Note that you have to use specialized inverters and BMS equipment such as available here:


Here's parts of an email the owner of that store sent me regarding that approach:

Since you have an opportunity for a full pack, you would start rather large, obviously (numerically speaking; you would break it into modules using the 2S route).

Most steps mentioned above have days worth of YouTubes, books, forum posts, etc. Reading them all could take months. That would be more than enough for someone with the right skills already. Some programming is required.

SMA has an inverter capable of using the whole pack without rewiring it.

DC voltage range/ DC rated voltage 100 V - 550 V / 360 V

 
SMA has an inverter capable of using the whole pack without rewiring it.

DC voltage range/ DC rated voltage 100 V - 550 V / 360 V

I was very excited about this product when you referred it until I looked at its specs: an anemic 3,600 watts, maybe even less! Also, it seems to have a requirement for a battery backup unit which might not allow DIY batteries.
 
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I was very excited about this product when you referred it until I looked at its specs: an anemic 3,600 watts, maybe even less! Also, it seems to have a requirement for a battery backup unit which might not allow DIY batteries.

Umm.. Did you not loot at the datasheet?

1577661190705.png

There's 3 models, the highest is 6kW. For DIY batteries you'll need a BMS with CAN output which is how the inverter gets stats on the battery. Both SimpBMS and EVTV Controller have support for CAN, or you can write your own if you use TomDebree or Collin Coders GitHub
 
Umm.. Did you not loot at the datasheet?

View attachment 4140

There's 3 models, the highest is 6kW. For DIY batteries you'll need a BMS with CAN output which is how the inverter gets stats on the battery. Both SimpBMS and EVTV Controller have support for CAN, or you can write your own if you use TomDebree or Collin Coders GitHub
Then it's doable! :):coffee:

I wasn't sure if their interface had required certificates that we can't get. You think it doesn't require an ungettable key?
 
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