diy solar

diy solar

The 220 vs 110 massive debate rages on ...

SolarRat said:
But, if there is no ground to neutral connection anywhere on the circuit, why would any current leak or get lost? Ground is no longer ground, so a person holding the drill won't be conducting to anything but dirt? Not being argumentative, just very curious!
Click to expand...
Well, if more than 4 or 5 milliamps of current gets lost along the way, (like through your body to dirt), the GFCI will sense this minuscule 4 or 5 milliamp current imbalance between what is being fed to the device on the hot wire and what is returning from the device on the neutral wire and break the circuit thusly!
 
Last edited:
Which is safer? There is no clear answer. 220 will electrocute you easier, but the higher current with 120 is more likely to cause a fire. You are probably more likely to die from an electrical caused fire than from being electrocuted.
 
FilterGuy said:
Which is safer? There is no clear answer. 220 will electrocute you easier, but the higher current with 120 is more likely to cause a fire. You are probably more likely to die from an electrical caused fire than from being electrocuted.
Click to expand...
WELL WELL WELL Mr Big dealio Filter guy, all high and mighty and correct about every little thing because YOUR SF 49R's instead of MY Green Bay Packers made it to the super bowl this year.
Okay if your fingers complete the path between 115 VAC and ground or neutral, your gonna feel it just like Jimmy Grapollo will feel it tomorrow when he gets sacked during the biggest game to end all games. But, if your chubby digits complete a path across TWO, properly phased, 115 volt lines, your gonna run home crying to mommy, if your lucky!
 
offgriddle said:
WELL WELL WELL Mr Big dealio Filter guy, all high and mighty and correct about every little thing because YOUR SF 49R's instead of MY Green Bay Packers made it to the super bowl this year.
Okay if your fingers complete the path between 115 VAC and ground or neutral, your gonna feel it just like Jimmy Grapollo will feel it tomorrow when he gets sacked during the biggest game to end all games. But, if your chubby digits complete a path across TWO, properly phased, 115 volt lines, your gonna run home crying to mommy, if your lucky!
Click to expand...
Now that was a pretty "Cheesy" reply! :ROFLMAO:

Actually, I can't lose tomorrow. I grew up in the KC area and I now live in the SF area. (Or is it I can't win?)
 
FilterGuy said:
Now that was a pretty "Cheesy" reply! :ROFLMAO:

Actually, I can't lose tomorrow. I grew up in the KC area and I now live in the SF area. (Or is it I can't win?)
Click to expand...
You definetly got a win win situation goin on there, but do you have a favorite?
 
I guess it's the Niners...I went through the 80s and 90s with them and kinda got hooked. However, I also find it hard not to root for the 'home' team.

Everybody says it's going to be a close match. I hope it is. I would hate to see either team humiliated. (Plus, I hate ANY super bowl that is a blowout.... you would hope the 'top two' makes for an exciting game)
 
FilterGuy said:
I guess it's the Niners...I went through the 80s and 90s with them and kinda got hooked. However, I also find it hard not to root for the 'home' team.

Everybody says it's going to be a close match. I hope it is. I would hate to see either team humiliated. (Plus, I hate ANY super bowl that is a blowout.... you would hope the 'top two' makes for an exciting game)
Click to expand...
Yes, it's good when two strong teams that posess their own unique skill sets and specialties match up because it makes the outcome less predictable.
 
Building in SF did a party at was the most strange 3 phase I've ever seen. like 3 phase delta stinger. but one of the phases would rise and lower in voltage. Was told it was a type used for helping to start large motors. No transformer in the place this wild leg came from the power companys gear. I was using it phase to phase so no big deal, Long ago I use to haul around 3 phase water cooled lasers for entertainment. MmM 60amps of 3phase in a glass tube jacketed by water....
 
offgriddle said:
Why 220 VAC at the household outlet in Europe vs 110 VAC at the household outlet in USSA is a surprisingly emotionally charged topic with a a variety of answers, with the most Common answer being safety. I, however, personally believe that the reason why grandma plugs in her two hundred and twenty volt toaster on the kitchen counter next to the sink or why the wife plugs in her 220 VAC curling iron next to the bathroom sink or why dad cruises a 220 volt Norelco razor is because people in Urp are far more courageous, worry far less, therefore, are far more cool than their sissy, fellow humanoids living in the USSA.
Click to expand...

I was in Europe a few times in the Marine Corps and I noticed they drink a lot of warm beer and walk or ride bikes/scooters a lot...
(230 and don't have Lucas appliances/vehicle wiring is what I blame it on)

I'm on 120/240 and I have COLD BEER and I don't walk anywhere the car will fit ... ;)
 
JeepHammer said:
I was in Europe a few times in the Marine Corps and I noticed they drink a lot of warm beer and walk or ride bikes/scooters a lot...
(230 and don't have Lucas appliances/vehicle wiring is what I blame it on)

I'm on 120/240 and I have COLD BEER and I don't walk anywhere the car will fit ... ;)
Click to expand...
Now see had you joined the Air Force, after every 4 hour shift you would have chosen from a wide selection of imported and domestic ice cold beerZ that were on tap, served to you in a heavy, frosted glass mug while relaxing in the barracks lounge and munching on complimentary peanuts, pretzels and bacon wrapped scalllops in front of a wide screen satellite TV. Oorah.
 
SolarRat said:
But, if there is no ground to neutral connection anywhere on the circuit, why would any current leak or get lost? Ground is no longer ground, so a person holding the drill won't be conducting to anything but dirt? Not being argumentative, just very curious!
Click to expand...
But there IS a connection between neutral and ground in the circuit... at the main breaker panel, AND at the power distribution point, telephone pole transformer.
Without the transformer bonding to ground, a short could electrocute someone instead of tripping a breaker.
 
Supervstech said:
But there IS a connection between neutral and ground in the circuit... at the main breaker panel, AND at the power distribution point, telephone pole transformer.
Without the transformer bonding to ground, a short could electrocute someone instead of tripping a breaker.
Click to expand...

I was replying to a few posts before mine, which stated NO ground is needed to trip a GFCI. Obviously the neutral and ground are (should be) bonded in the main panel. But my question was, if there really was NO GROUND (as in no bonding in the panel, or an improperly set up RV system) then how would the GFCI trip? No voltage would get lost to "ground", because nowhere in the circuit is tied to an earth ground. I don't think a GFCI would trip if there wasn't a ground tie somewhere.
 
SolarRat said:
I was replying to a few posts before mine, which stated NO ground is needed to trip a GFCI. Obviously the neutral and ground are (should be) bonded in the main panel. But my question was, if there really was NO GROUND (as in no bonding in the panel, or an improperly set up RV system) then how would the GFCI trip? No voltage would get lost to "ground", because nowhere in the circuit is tied to an earth ground. I don't think a GFCI would trip if there wasn't a ground tie somewhere.
Click to expand...
The GFCI is comparing the amount of current flowing to a device on the hot wire and the current leaving a device on the neutral wire. If the GFI senses greater than a four or five milliamp current difference between the hot and neutral wires, it trips in about 1/30th of a second. The only thing that ground does on a GFI is ground the metal bracket that holds the receptacle in place and yes you should hook the ground up anyway.
 
SolarRat said:
I was replying to a few posts before mine, which stated NO ground is needed to trip a GFCI. Obviously the neutral and ground are (should be) bonded in the main panel. But my question was, if there really was NO GROUND (as in no bonding in the panel, or an improperly set up RV system) then how would the GFCI trip? No voltage would get lost to "ground", because nowhere in the circuit is tied to an earth ground. I don't think a GFCI would trip if there wasn't a ground tie somewhere.
Click to expand...
GFCI is designed to trip whenEVER there is an imbalance between the hot feed and the neutral return.

it does not need a ground at the receptacle to trip.

but, yes... there must be a ground in the power system for the power to bleed away.
 
The GFCI is comparing the amount of current flowing to a device on the hot wire and the current leaving a device on the neutral wire. If the GFI senses greater than a four or five milliamp current difference between the hot and neutral wires, it trips in about 1/30th of a second. The only thing that ground does on a GFI is ground the metal bracket that holds the receptacle in place and yes you should hook the ground up anyway.
 
offgriddle said:
The GFCI is comparing the amount of current flowing to a device on the hot wire and the current leaving a device on the neutral wire. If the GFI senses greater than a four or five milliamp current difference between the hot and neutral wires, it trips in about 1/30th of a second. The only thing that ground does on a GFI is ground the metal bracket that holds the receptacle in place and yes you should hook the ground up anyway.
Click to expand...
Sort of...

the ground connector in the metal box, and metal GFCI receptacle provides a fault path to the grounding system of the circuit.

it is not required for the GFCI receptacle to trip.
However, there must be a fault current path for a GFCI to trip.
 
Putting it another way.

a GFCI can trip if the hot in the GFCI circuit energizes the return path of ANY other circuit... grounding just gives it a readily accessible return path.

another neutral from a different circuit would also trip it...


and... putting your body between the GFCI circuit and its neutral return path will NOT trip the GFCI.
 
A GFCI can also trip if its neutral comes into contact with any grounding circuit... near zero shock potential, but still a micro amp voltage potential, and it can trip it.
 
Supervstech said:
Sort of...

the ground connector in the metal box, and metal GFCI receptacle provides a fault path to the grounding system of the circuit.

it is not required for the GFCI receptacle to trip.
However, there must be a fault current path for a GFCI to trip.
Click to expand...
Perzactly, and whether the box is metal or plastic ungroundrd or not, the green ground screw on the GFCI should be hooked to the ground wire. Of course the old OLD non metal clad wiring only had a hot and a neutral wire, but gfi's don't need no stinking ground to perform their protective function. ~ Imagine though the days before grounded wiring, the fuse had to blow when the amount of current flowing though the fusable link exceeded the rated amperage of the fuse, hopefully not by flowing through a living being!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MeicalNissyen
Positive attitude, Neutral preconceptions, looking for a Sine
Replies
2
Views
322
HRTKD
HRTKD
Back
Top