Zero-export inverter, not backfeed to the grid

Ronny Hugo · Jan 31, 2023

Hi Kje, i tryid this one a 2kw inv with limiter.
Realy easy setup, i used some 100w panels 15 pc and where able to drop our consume down to 10w during the day. U can change the setup also then it wil feed power to grid.
Cheap,,but i dont think Norway like it

kje · Jan 31, 2023

timselectric said:
Off grid is what the discussion is about.
The OP was confused on terminology.

Is it called offgrid when the inverter is connected to the grid but not export anything?

Ronny Hugo said:
Hi Kje, i tryid this one a 2kw inv with limiter.
Realy easy setup, i used some 100w panels 15 pc and where able to drop our consume down to 10w during the day. U can change the setup also then it wil feed power to grid.
Cheap,,but i dont think Norway like it
View attachment 132413

Is it GTIL? Can it also charge batteries from solar?

Ronny Hugo · Jan 31, 2023

kje said:
Is it called offgrid when the inverter is connected to the grid but not export anything?

Is it GTIL? Can it also charge batteries from solar?

no, this one cant charge battery,,but u can use it with only battery,solar or wind.

timselectric · Jan 31, 2023

kje said:
Is it called offgrid when the inverter is connected to the grid but not export anything?

Grid-tied = is a bidirectional connection with the grid source.
Off grid = a stand alone system that works with batteries.
An off grid AIO (All InOne) = has a SCC (Solar Charge Controller), AC charger, inverter, AC input, and transfer switch, all built in to one unit.
Hybrid AIO = has functions from any of the above.

kje · Jan 31, 2023

timselectric said:
Grid-tied = is a bidirectional connection with the grid source.
Off grid = a stand alone system that works with batteries.
An off grid AIO (All InOne) = has a SCC (Solar Charge Controller), AC charger, inverter, AC input, and transfer switch, all built in to one unit.
Hybrid AIO = has functions from any of the above.

Yes thank you.
But I don't understand, is it called offgrid when the inverter is connected to the grid but not export anything? Is it your 1st alternative; "Grid-tied = is a bidirectional connection with the grid source" just not export anything? (Monodirectional?)

Inverter output to the house fusebox so the solar power is available in all the power outlets in the house?

timselectric · Jan 31, 2023

kje said:
Yes thank you.
But I don't understand, is it called offgrid when the inverter is connected to the grid but not export anything? Is it your 1st alternative; "Grid-tied = is a bidirectional connection with the grid source" just not export anything? (Monodirectional?)

Inverter output to the house fusebox so the solar power is available in all the power outlets in the house?

Grid-tied has the ability to export.
Off grid doesn't. But can use the grid if needed.

400bird · Jan 31, 2023

kje said:
Yes thank you.
But I don't understand, is it called offgrid when the inverter is connected to the grid but not export anything? Is it your 1st alternative; "Grid-tied = is a bidirectional connection with the grid source" just not export anything? (Monodirectional?)

Inverter output to the house fusebox so the solar power is available in all the power outlets in the house?

This is why all these marketing terms suck and seem arbitrary. Ask what a hybrid inverter is next!
Is it a hybrid of a charge controller and inverter? Nope, apparently not ?

Off grid sure does sound like there's no AC input from the grid, maybe a generator input.

timselectric · Jan 31, 2023

400bird said:
This is why all these marketing terms suck and seem arbitrary. Ask what a hybrid inverter is next!
Is it a hybrid of a charge controller and inverter? Nope, apparently not ?

Off grid sure does sound like there's no AC input from the grid, maybe a generator input.

Yup
Hybrid is a catch all.
Anything that doesn't fit completely in one of the other categories.

ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient · Jan 31, 2023

Danke said:
Yes, possible.

Sol-Ark does that. A Deye is similar and probably more appropriate for European market and also cheaper.

Examples:

View attachment 132276
View attachment 132277

Interesting how in the second diagram, they want a second grounding rod just for the inverter. Figured you would just tie back to the main ground in the main panel, but this diagram shows you are supposed to do both.

Also, I have always wondered how you would parallel two Solarks when installing line-side, like in the first diagram, but I cannot seem to wrap my head around how to do it. Installing a single Solark 15k line-side is so simple. I don’t believe you even need CTs that way if you are set to not export power.

Danke · Jan 31, 2023

ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient said:
Interesting how in the second diagram, they want a second grounding rod just for the inverter. Figured you would just tie back to the main ground in the main panel, but this diagram shows you are supposed to do both.

Also, I have always wondered how you would parallel two Solarks when installing line-side, like in the first diagram, but I cannot seem to wrap my head around how to do it. Installing a single Solark 15k line-side is so simple. I don’t believe you even need CTs that way if you are set to not export power.

ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient · Jan 31, 2023

Danke said:
View attachment 132459

Thank you so much. Going to stare at this for an hour or two!

kje · Feb 2, 2023

timselectric said:
Grid-tied has the ability to export.
Off grid doesn't. But can use the grid if needed.

Ok, is MPP max 11kw an off grid inverter?

Can I connect the MPP max 11kw to the house fusebox so it gives power to all the existing power outlets in the house?

Can the MPP max 11kw ensure that it doesn't give more power than we use in the house (no export to the grid)?

timselectric · Feb 2, 2023

kje said:
Ok, is MPP max 11kw an off grid inverter?

What model? I don't know if MPP makes a grid-tied inverter. The ones I am familiar with are not.

kje said:
Can I connect the MPP max 11kw to the house fusebox so it gives power to all the existing power outlets in the house?

If 11k is enough to cover your whole house.

kje said:
Can the MPP max 11kw ensure that it doesn't give more power than we use in the house (no export to the grid)?

Depends on model.

12VoltInstalls · Feb 2, 2023

timselectric said:
don't know if MPP makes a grid-tied inverter. The ones I am familiar with are not

Most of their AIOs are grid connected but no export. A few are ul1741 or whatever that standard is that I can’t recall atm

kje said:
Can the MPP max 11kw ensure that it doesn't give more power than we use in the house (no export to the grid)?

I’d start reading here: and here which will develop knowledge to increase your informed decision making capacity.

timselectric · Feb 2, 2023

12VoltInstalls said:
Most of their AIOs are grid connected but no export. A few are ul1741 or whatever that standard is that I can’t recall atm

That's what I thought. I have never heard of a grid-tied MPP. But wasn't sure if one possibly existed.
I try to avoid the words "grid connected" , because it confuses people.

kje · Feb 2, 2023

timselectric said:
What model? I don't know if MPP makes a grid-tied inverter. The ones I am familiar with are not.

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timselectric said:
If 11k is enough to cover your whole house.

Is it possible to have the MPP 11k in addition to the grid? So if there is no power from solar or battery witch is connected to the MPP 11k, we can use the regular grid?

timselectric said:
Depends on model.

Can this model of MPP ensure that it doesn't give more power than we use in the house (no export to the grid)?

Maintenance guy · Feb 2, 2023

This system you are referring to is a grid assist system. The power from the batteries and solar panels are NOT fed back into the grid yet the grid is connected to the system to power the house and charge the batteries when the solar panels are not producing power and the batteries are depleted .

When using this type of system the main AC lines need to be thicker to account for powering the house and the charging of the batteries at the same time. This method is in the manual of the Grow Watts
SPF 12000T DVM-MPV series and the Sigineer M12048D series if I remember rightly. There may be others that utilize this type of set up. Basically what you are doing is using the grid as backup instead of feeding into it which by the way is good for winter months.
A connection charge monthly from the utility company will be charged but that is like 25 or 30 bucks depending on the utility company. Plus the fact that a blue print is not needed for the utility company because it is NOT grid tie.
Regards,
M

12VoltInstalls · Feb 2, 2023

kje said:
it possible to have the MPP 11k in addition to the grid?

Yes

kje said:
So if there is no power from solar or battery witch is connected to the MPP 11k, we can use the regular grid?

Yes
I personally would not go battery-less. Even one small server-rack battery would(could?) sustain overnight with grid down, and you can minimize grid billing rather than have all or nothing daylight.

kje said:
Can this model of MPP ensure that it doesn't give more power than we use in the house (no export to the grid)?

That’s what the bulk of them are designed to do. A couple- or at least one- of the MPPSolar models are UL1741 tested and many probably most util jurisdictions will permit those.

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timselectric · Feb 2, 2023

kje said:
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Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MPP Solar PIP 11KW MAX 48V 230VAC 500VDC 150A Wi-Fi Solar Inverter at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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View attachment 132757

Is it possible to have the MPP 11k in addition to the grid? So if there is no power from solar or battery witch is connected to the MPP 11k, we can use the regular grid?

Can this model of MPP ensure that it doesn't give more power than we use in the house (no export to the grid)?

That's an off grid AIO. So it can not export.
It can run on battery.
It can pass the grid through to the loads.
It can blend grid and solar to share the loads.
But, you are still limited to the 11k.
So if that's enough , then yes it can work for your whole house.
If it's not enough, multiple units can be stacked together (up to 6 units) to increase their output.

kje · Feb 2, 2023

timselectric said:
That's an off grid AIO. So it can not export.
It can run on battery.
It can pass the grid through to the loads.
It can blend grid and solar to share the loads.
But, you are still limited to the 11k.
So if that's enough , then yes it can work for your whole house.
If it's not enough, multiple units can be stacked together (up to 6 units) to increase their output.

Ok thank you. Is this called grid assist?

Zero-export inverter, not backfeed to the grid

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