Need "Ignition Protection" on T-fuses in room with Honda 7000 generator in it?

AlaskanNoob · Mar 27, 2023

Small insulated Solar Shed will have a gas Honda 7000 generator in it that will exhaust to outside the shed. But it will be in there. Do we need to make sure our t-fuses have ignition protection because of that generator?

ElectricIslander · Mar 27, 2023

Hmm, I gather you are concerned about potential ignition of gasoline vapors?

That could happen, especially if the generator starts into a short circuit load after lying inactive while gas fumes accumulate. Boats deal with this by use of a mandatory fan that must run before starting the engine.

While running, the constant flow of cooling air into and out of a properly ducted generator shed installation would dilute gasoline vapour emanating from the vent in the generators tank.

Ways to mitigate the risk of fire (and carbon monoxide poisoning) would include:

Mounting fuse box externally on outside wall of shed under eaves
If necessary to mount inside, mount high as gasoline fumes are heavier than air
Enclose generator in a vented airtight box within your shed (I posted photos of my Honda 2200 in a box like this in another post on this forum). enclosing in a vented box also provides another layer of protection against the killer, Carbon Monoxide.
Make sure that shed is heavily ventilated or open sided !!!

AlaskanNoob · Mar 27, 2023

ElectricIslander said:
Hmm, I gather you are concerned about potential ignition of gasoline vapors?

That could happen, especially if the generator starts into a short circuit load after lying inactive while gas fumes accumulate. Boats deal with this by use of a mandatory fan that must run before starting the engine.

While running, the constant flow of cooling air into and out of a properly ducted generator shed installation would dilute gasoline vapour emanating from the vent in the generators tank.

Ways to mitigate the risk of fire (and carbon monoxide poisoning) would include:

Mounting fuse box externally on outside wall of shed under eaves

If necessary to mount inside, mount high as gasoline fumes are heavier than air

Enclose generator in a vented airtight box within your shed (I posted photos of my Honda 2200 in a box like this in another post on this forum). enclosing in a vented box also provides another layer of protection against the killer, Carbon Monoxide.

Make sure that shed is heavily ventilated or open sided !!!

Sounds like a vote for t-fuses not needing to be ignition protected?

Great tips and I'll definitely plan to keep that generator in it's own airtight box and vent the exhaust to the outside, and we'll make an inflow pipe with a fan to bring in air from the outside of the shed to feed to the generator.

Nan_wpg · Mar 27, 2023

Is this even a thing? Where are the vapors coming from? The carb air vents? Or are you planning a worst case (spill)?

our cabin shed is 10 x 12. It has the gas cans and generator in it. Dumb dumb nephews smoke in there when it’s raining.

don’t class t fuses prevent arcs? With sand or something?

AlaskanNoob · Mar 27, 2023

Nan_wpg said:
Is this even a thing? Where are the vapors coming from? The carb air vents? Or are you planning a worst case (spill)?

our cabin shed is 10 x 12. It has the gas cans and generator in it. Dumb dumb nephews smoke in there when it’s raining.

don’t class t fuses prevent arcs? With sand or something?

I don't know. I would think filling it up with gas would lead to some gas vapors in the shed. But I don't know how much gets in the air after that. I've just read that t-fuses should be ignition protected if there is any gas in the area which there will be in our case.

From talking to a consulant, it seems t-fuses aren't rated for ignition protection although unofficial testing hasn't shown it to be an issue, but there are some fuse blocks with covers that are. So we'll just go with that for worst case.

Nan_wpg · Mar 27, 2023

How big of a shed are we talking? Blue sea sells ignition protected fuses or fuse holders

AlaskanNoob · Mar 27, 2023

About 13' x 13'. The plan so far is to get those Blue Sea ignition protected fuse holders. The consultant we hired said:

Class T fuses themselves have not yet received an official rating of "ignition-protected". However, they are encased in metal and have been found on several unofficial testing occasions to fail completely enclosed, with no external spark, and thus in the industry are known to be effectively "ignition-protected". Blue Sea Systems sells a fuse block for them that is ignition-protected, and I recommend that fuse block for your system since the generator is inside:
The 5007100 for fuses to 200A, or the 5502100 for fuses above 200A.

ElectricIslander · Mar 28, 2023

The gasoline sitting in the tank has a vapor pressure which causes gasoline vapor to flow out the vent hole in the tank cap. That vapor will gradually accumulate in the shed potentially to the ignition concentration, unless positively ventilated.

Nan_wpg · Mar 28, 2023

I dunno. I’ve been storing gas powered things in my garage/cabin shed for decades.

but, I’ve never had anything dc powered, but the nephews smoke in the shed.…..

TomC4306 · Mar 28, 2023

AlaskanNoob said:
plan to keep that generator in it's own airtight box and vent the exhaust to the outside, and we'll make an inflow pipe with a fan to bring in air from the outside of the shed to feed to the generator

I built an enclosure for a portable generator and had 2 in pipe custom bent with a glass pack muffler and ran it outside the enclosure and had an air intake with a large high flow fan but it wasn't enough air. The only way I could keep that thing running was with the doors of the enclosure open. Now my backup generator is my solar system.

AlaskanNoob · Mar 28, 2023

TomC4306 said:
I built an enclosure for a portable generator and had 2 in pipe custom bent with a glass pack muffler and ran it outside the enclosure and had an air intake with a large high flow fan but it wasn't enough air. The only way I could keep that thing running was with the doors of the enclosure open. Now my backup generator is my solar system.

That's good to know. We will try to with a large air intake and fan and see how it goes. If it doesn't work we may have to put it outside elevated under cover but then we'll be trying to start it at -5F at times which it can do and has "cold climate technology" but it would prefer warmer solar shed temps.

HarryN · Mar 28, 2023

I was under the impression that T fuses were inherently ignition protected?

Bluedog225 · Mar 28, 2023

There are safety standards for generators in enclosed spaces. To include the provision for ignition sources.

They are written in blood. I’d learn and follow them.

ElectricIslander · Mar 28, 2023

AlaskanNoob said:
That's good to know. We will try to with a large air intake and fan and see how it goes. If it doesn't work we may have to put it outside elevated under cover but then we'll be trying to start it at -5F at times which it can do and has "cold climate technology" but it would prefer warmer solar shed temps.

Take a look at the small sound / weather protection enclosure that I built within our "temporary" 3 sided shelter built out of scrap wood left over from our cabin build. I has two 3" to 4" air intake holes which are sufficient for our Honda Eu2200i. It also has the benefit of being another layer of containment keeping gasoline and carbon monoxide fumes separate from the breathing air in the shed since all the fumes go up the adjacent 8 foot high metal stove pipe which is within a rock wool insulated wooden chimney to further absorb sound. No need for an intake fan as the generator cooling fan flow is ducted up the chimney, drawing the contained exhaust up with it and the generator intake air also pulls air into the enclosure box. If you are building a fully enclosed shed though, an intake or exhaust fan is necessary to make sure that carbon monoxide does not linger, and one also needs a carbon monoxide alarm (or several) as CO can be deadly (near our place two people died at a cabin from a propane fridge that had incomplete combustion due to a poorly maintained burner).

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/honda-30is-—-“indoors”-exhaust-extension.58733/#post-739884

AlaskanNoob · Mar 29, 2023

I think we're gonna just build a smaller generator shed attached to the solar shed and run the cables through the wall. That way we can keep it completely separate. And we'll still use the ignition protected fuse blocks. I'm sure it's overkill, but we simply cannot have a fire where we're at and we'll more than likely upgrade to a larger diesel generator in the future anyway so we might as well plan for it now.

ElectricIslander · Mar 30, 2023

Good idea to make them completely separate, use fire resistant construction materials and go diesel.

My off grid cousin on another nearby PNW island recently had a mystery diesel generator shed fire in the middle of the night which burned down their attached shop with all of his tools in it and their trusty old Kubota generator. It could have been a wiring fault, they'll never know. Nothing left but a 3 foot high pile of charred rubble. Neighbours and relatives pitched in to cleanup, donate tools and labour to rebuild.

DIYrich · Mar 30, 2023

IMHO, the generator is more likely to ignite the fumes than the class t fuse blowing.

Solution: Don't store fuel in the generator/shed when not running.

AlaskanNoob · Mar 30, 2023

ElectricIslander said:
Good idea to make them completely separate, use fire resistant construction materials and go diesel.

My off grid cousin on another nearby PNW island recently had a mystery diesel generator shed fire in the middle of the night which burned down their attached shop with all of his tools in it and their trusty old Kubota generator. It could have been a wiring fault, they'll never know. Nothing left but a 3 foot high pile of charred rubble. Neighbours and relatives pitched in to cleanup, donate tools and labour to rebuild.

Oh, that sucks. That's exactly what we want to avoid. Once we get the system setup we'll be looking at installing some kind of fire detection and mitigation tools. Something to remotely shut off all the electronics and spray fire retardant or something.

DIYrich · Mar 31, 2023

Avoid fire retardant chemicals with forever chemicals (pfas).

OzSolar · Mar 31, 2023

Huh... I always thought that ignition protected had to do with a fuse's ability to survive the starting amps when used on a starter. Learned something new today!

Need "Ignition Protection" on T-fuses in room with Honda 7000 generator in it?

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