diy solar

diy solar

I Can't Afford So-Called "Tier 1" Equipment. What's Good at Tier 2?

Well be sure to post on the forum @EastTexCowboy so we can follow along!
I pulled the trigger a few weeks ago on a third MPP 6048, this will bring my output up to 19.5kW (so 'She' can have her cake and eat it too, Er I mean she can have her Dryer and run the double oven too, LOL) Gotta say my woman was not so excited about the solar at first ie back in Feb 2021, but once she saw what it could do during a 4 day utility outage, well then all of a sudden Green light - then the low utility bills really clinched it, leading to lots of "what else can we move onto solar" questions. LOL.
Eventually we will out-grow the 19.5kW output, and I can see moving to either twin EG18kpv units (24kW output max) or see what else is new and exciting by then.
Maybe Tim will convince me to go with 8 Growatts, and a big ass isolated transformer, maybe, If I could only find them at the kinda prices he got them for...
I like my MPP's - they just seem to work, and are easy for me to understand and build onto. I don't need a lot of fancy features, we have no intention of ever feeding into the grid, the company paid for everything (ut-oh keep that quiet, you guys have IRS we have CRA!! gotta watch what I say)
When it comes time to upgrade, the MPP's will have a good home in my cabin property, maybe just in time for me to retire and spend more time up there...
Life is good! even if the 3/4 plywood sheets are getting heavier each year (I swear they are).
 
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hwy17 said:
Need to post a rough budget and system requirements or goals, and if you have any equipment already or need everything.

The issues I see people having with SS are:

1. Not reading the return and replacement policy in detail and then getting mad about shipping cost, turnaround time, or refund only policy and then getting mad about it. You're probably immune to these if you can pick up.

2. Not researching and learning about known quirks and limitations EG4 equipment before purchasing. Avoidable.

3. EG4 equipment comes with unknown quirk due to unknown mid run product change. These suck, but they own up to them.

4. New EG4 product comes with unknown or poorly described quirk that first buyers discover and is not something that will be resolved.

I really only feel bad for the 3rd and 4th category, and it sounds like SS sometimes offers refunds for these cases. You can just stay away from brand new products though.
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None of those issues trouble me much because I have done a lot of reading and I am somewhat familiar with quirks, limitations, shipping costs, risks of damage, etc. The red flags I'm seeing are more about the many people who have reported extremely poor customer service, hard to reach tech support, lack of knowledgeable techs, long hold times, etc. (plus equipment that breaks). It sounds to me like they have much more business than they have capacity to deal with. If someone is a friend of someone on the staff, they're probably in good shape, but if they're an average Joe looking for support, they are probably SOL.

My budget is around $15-17K. I've done extensive power usage monitoring and calculation, and I need about a 7-8kW off-grid system. I also need split-phase because I have a 240V deep well pump that we run for about half an hour once per week. We have a small 12V system now but it will have to be completely replaced.
 
Great Gatsby! I got busy with work for a couple of days and just checked this thread and there's 10 pages of replies to my OP. Very sorry it took so long to get back to everybody. For those of you who asked:

We have a small 12V off-grid system now, which we have been using for 3 years. It is old, underpowered, and will have to be completely replaced. My budget is around $15-17K, before tax. I'm a cheapskate, so I'll DIY whatever parts of the install I can do myself, and consult with a local electrician to make sure it's safe. I've done extensive power usage monitoring and calculation, and I need about a 7-8kW system. I also need split-phase because I have a 240V deep well pump that we run for about half an hour once per week. It would be great to be able to run a small mini-split for a few hours a day during the hottest parts of the year. I've been researching this for 3 years and I've covered all the basic stuff like sun hours, roof angle, wind, temperatures, etc., as well as I can. Right now it's just about getting the best bang for the buck.
 
forbin said:
None of those issues trouble me much because I have done a lot of reading and I am somewhat familiar with quirks, limitations, shipping costs, risks of damage, etc. The red flags I'm seeing are more about the many people who have reported extremely poor customer service, hard to reach tech support, lack of knowledgeable techs, long hold times, etc. (plus equipment that breaks). It sounds to me like they have much more business than they have capacity to deal with. If someone is a friend of someone on the staff, they're probably in good shape, but if they're an average Joe looking for support, they are probably SOL.

My budget is around $15-17K. I've done extensive power usage monitoring and calculation, and I need about a 7-8kW off-grid system. I also need split-phase because I have a 240V deep well pump that we run for about half an hour once per week. We have a small 12V system now but it will have to be completely replaced.
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Well they have your money.. why would they need to talk to you ? There’s billions more customers that will spend money and don’t want to talk…they just want to buy some stuff… Not everyone for sure, but an awful lot doing business here and overseas…if you can’t drive to their place of business and walk in , don’t buy from them…
that’s been my policy for 30 years.. it has never let me down.
 
forbin said:
None of those issues trouble me much because I have done a lot of reading and I am somewhat familiar with quirks, limitations, shipping costs, risks of damage, etc. The red flags I'm seeing are more about the many people who have reported extremely poor customer service, hard to reach tech support, lack of knowledgeable techs, long hold times, etc. (plus equipment that breaks). It sounds to me like they have much more business than they have capacity to deal with. If someone is a friend of someone on the staff, they're probably in good shape, but if they're an average Joe looking for support, they are probably SOL.

My budget is around $15-17K. I've done extensive power usage monitoring and calculation, and I need about a 7-8kW off-grid system. I also need split-phase because I have a 240V deep well pump that we run for about half an hour once per week. We have a small 12V system now but it will have to be completely replaced.
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Contact Ian for a deal, he runs specials like this one and just add another LV6548 to the package. https://watts247.com/product/lv6548-6-5kw-3-7kw-bundle/

If you need panels included, this deal fits your budget. https://watts247.com/product/12000t-24kwh/
 
forbin said:
Great Gatsby! I got busy with work for a couple of days and just checked this thread and there's 10 pages of replies to my OP. Very sorry it took so long to get back to everybody. For those of you who asked:

We have a small 12V off-grid system now, which we have been using for 3 years. It is old, underpowered, and will have to be completely replaced. My budget is around $15-17K, before tax. I'm a cheapskate, so I'll DIY whatever parts of the install I can do myself, and consult with a local electrician to make sure it's safe. I've done extensive power usage monitoring and calculation, and I need about a 7-8kW system. I also need split-phase because I have a 240V deep well pump that we run for about half an hour once per week. It would be great to be able to run a small mini-split for a few hours a day during the hottest parts of the year. I've been researching this for 3 years and I've covered all the basic stuff like sun hours, roof angle, wind, temperatures, etc., as well as I can. Right now it's just about getting the best bang for the buck.
Click to expand...
LOL - See what can happen when you post a question and then leave all of us alone to Run with it!

Budget set, good, $15-17K ( we will need to look at how much for each component next). Does this value account for any rebates (State/Federal)?
120/240 Split phase system needed good to know.
Three years of research done - very good.
Questions and comments:
1. You have done the research, so tell us how much PV you see being needed, and set aside $ from the budget for this. Any you already have?
2. Did you say if Utility is available for back up? - I didn't see that covered. ie can you rely on utility if several days of poor solar weather in a row?
This question is to direct us on how much may be needed for batteries (most expensive part of the overall set up). And how reliable the system needs to be since if you have no alternative source of energy, then the risks are much higher.
3. I recommend setting a full 2k for wire/breakers/fuses/disconnects (from my own experience).

You have determined you need an inverter of about 6-8kW power output:
I feel (and it is only my opinion) that the mid-priced equipment that would do this would be a pair of MPP 6548's (as suggested already by @Zwy ) for a very competitive price point.
But depending on the amount of budget needed for PV and Battery bank, you may have room to consider better equipment (better = lower standby consumption) with better features. I know I would be tempted to consider the new EG18kpv (12kW output inverter) especially if it was likely that future requirements would lead to needing more output capacity. This equipment will be about a third of your budget though, maybe out of reach.
 
forbin said:
None of those issues trouble me much because I have done a lot of reading and I am somewhat familiar with quirks, limitations, shipping costs, risks of damage, etc. The red flags I'm seeing are more about the many people who have reported extremely poor customer service, hard to reach tech support, lack of knowledgeable techs, long hold times, etc. (plus equipment that breaks). It sounds to me like they have much more business than they have capacity to deal with. If someone is a friend of someone on the staff, they're probably in good shape, but if they're an average Joe looking for support, they are probably SOL.

My budget is around $15-17K. I've done extensive power usage monitoring and calculation, and I need about a 7-8kW off-grid system. I also need split-phase because I have a 240V deep well pump that we run for about half an hour once per week. We have a small 12V system now but it will have to be completely replaced.
Click to expand...
If you need customer service, tech support, knowledgeable techs, fast response to questions. I really do not know who you will buy from whether Tier 1 or Tier none.

Customer support is most often an automated system with automated answers. Tech support is often a script reader. And knowledgeable Tech support is one guy that is so busy he can only help you a year from now.

Figure out what you want and read equipment reviews on the devices that seem to meet your needs.
 
OffGridForGood said:
LOL - See what can happen when you post a question and then leave all of us alone to Run with it!

Budget set, good, $15-17K ( we will need to look at how much for each component next). Does this value account for any rebates (State/Federal)?
120/240 Split phase system needed good to know.
Three years of research done - very good.
Questions and comments:
1. You have done the research, so tell us how much PV you see being needed, and set aside $ from the budget for this. Any you already have?
2. Did you say if Utility is available for back up? - I didn't see that covered. ie can you rely on utility if several days of poor solar weather in a row?
This question is to direct us on how much may be needed for batteries (most expensive part of the overall set up). And how reliable the system needs to be since if you have no alternative source of energy, then the risks are much higher.
3. I recommend setting a full 2k for wire/breakers/fuses/disconnects (from my own experience).

You have determined you need an inverter of about 6-8kW power output:
I feel (and it is only my opinion) that the mid-priced equipment that would do this would be a pair of MPP 6548's (as suggested already by @Zwy ) for a very competitive price point.
But depending on the amount of budget needed for PV and Battery bank, you may have room to consider better equipment (better = lower standby consumption) with better features. I know I would be tempted to consider the new EG18kpv (12kW output inverter) especially if it was likely that future requirements would lead to needing more output capacity. This equipment will be about a third of your budget though, maybe out of reach.
Click to expand...

When I said we need a 7kW system, I meant PV input power to the charge controller, not output. There's room for 16 x 455W panels on the sun-facing side of my roof, so that's 7280W (theoretical max, obviously). That's all the room we have for now, so that's about the best we can do. I want an AIO with hefty VOC so the whole array will feed into a single MPP without a combiner box if possible, but I also want 2 x MPPs so I can add another array later (extend back porch, put panels on that roof). We currently use about 5kW/day, but we're wanting to build a system that would support more like 25kW/day. We get about 4.9-5.1 sun hours a day here, so if we figure about 30% overall system loss, that would net us the 25kW we need. We would only use that much in the height of summer. The rest of the year, we would get some autonomy.

There's no utility around these parts. We're off-grid, baby! That said, I can't figure out how to build a system with 2-3 days of autonomy within my budget, so I'm sure we'll still end up using the generator from time to time. We have 4 of them. Currently, we run the generator several hours per day on most days, so reducing it to once in a while would be awesome.

We have the budget for the project right now, but we have to clear a bunch of trees first, so we have some time. We have not calculated federal tax rebates into the equation.
 
KITROBASKIN said:
Can you chunk your well use to run shorter durations? Might this help with battery expense?
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We don't have a pressurized system, just a raised water tank that we fill once per week. Half an hour fills it. Then we feed it into the cabin with an RV pump until the following week.
 
hwy17 said:
You can afford Tier 1, just make your usage fit in 6.8kw and get an XW Pro. It can peak to 8.5kw for 30 minutes.
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Sorry, I meant 7kW input power. For output power, we would need more like 9kW to handle the startup surge on the well pump.
 
forbin said:
Sorry, I meant 7kW input power. For output power, we would need more like 9kW to handle the startup surge on the well pump.
Click to expand...
It sounds like two of the LV6548s might be a good fit for you. They will handle everything you've mentioned. There are drawbacks, like the high idle consumption, but staying within that budget is going to likely rule out the more expensive options. Keep us updated on your build.
 
forbin said:
Sorry, I meant 7kW input power. For output power, we would need more like 9kW to handle the startup surge on the well pump.
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XW Pro will start your well pump, I guarantee it. (Guarantee value 1/10 of 1 cent, not eligible for redemption in the lower 48 or outside the lower 48)

See the overload curve here:

solar.se.com

XW Pro 120/240V

The Schneider Electric XW Pro 6848 solar inverter provides flexible design with optional generator integration for home and small businesses.
solar.se.com solar.se.com
 
I would consider the EG18kpv: if you can squeeze it into the budget (less battery maybe for now at least) otherwise I agree with @EastTexCowboy hard to beat the price and utility of a pair of 6548.
Single run high voltage for the PV = EG18kpv (up to 600v)
Expansion in future for more PV = EG18kpv (has three built in inputs)
all in one 120/240 = EG18kpv gives you both in one unit
more reliable equipment (due to the off grid no utility) = EG18kpv, but at considerable cost increase over the 6548's

7kW of PV x 5 hours sun = 35kWh/day likely (depends on location and time of year) check with your research. Do you see needing this much energy per day?
 
Reviewing your budget:
MPP 6548 pair option:
Watts24/7 list these at $2,100 for the pair,
7kW of solar PV (you may see used available in your area?) new may be $5,000 depends what you pick.
Racking another $1500 ish depending on your situation.
Disconnects, wire, fuses, etc say 2,000
That brings you to $10,600 leaving $6,000 for four EG4 Power LiFePO4 batteries, from Signiture Solar. for a total of $16,600

EG18kpv option:
The inverter I believe is $5600
7kW of solar PV is still 5000, plus racking say $6500
Disconnects wire, fuses - will be less costly using this inverter since higher DC voltage and fewer runs of wire, lets say $1400
That brings you to $13,500 and you have budget for maybe three EG4LiFe Power Batteries for a total of $18,000

With your off-grid situation I would personally look for a 'deal' on PV or used for these, and then apply those cost savings towards the EG18kpv and more batteries. You should expect to still need the generator for poor solar weather, but be sure to have enough battery that the generator can just run a few hours at it's best efficiency output to charge the batteries and be 'good' for at least 24 hours at a time.
 
forbin said:
We don't have a pressurized system, just a raised water tank that we fill once per week. Half an hour fills it. Then we feed it into the cabin with an RV pump until the following week.
Click to expand...
I do a similar thing with my setup. 1800 gallon water storage tank, 150 feet in elevation above the house on the mountain. I top it off once a week as a precaution.
Theoretically I can go almost 4 weeks between using out 240v water pump. All spring fed. House is 100% gravity. Strong pressure.
Working steadily getting my Growatt(s) fully implemented. Totally off grid eventually.
 
NCislander said:
I do a similar thing with my setup. 1800 gallon water storage tank, 150 feet in elevation above the house on the mountain. I top it off once a week as a precaution.
Theoretically I can go almost 4 weeks between using out 240v water pump. All spring fed. House is 100% gravity. Strong pressure.
Working steadily getting my Growatt(s) fully implemented. Totally off grid eventually.
Click to expand...
That does lead to another option: smaller Inverter, and only fill the water tank while the generator is running anyway, once a week.
This option would depend on what the other (non-well pump) loads are, and what size of Inverter would suit. For a smaller system I like the MPP 6048 (and yes I know a lot about this unit) since this can output 120 & 240 in a single unit, and if the 6552 Watts output is sufficient this could be another option. Single 120 max loads need to be about 3200W or less, typically this is too small for a whole house.
 
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