diy solar

diy solar

I Can't Afford So-Called "Tier 1" Equipment. What's Good at Tier 2?

1201 said:
So my question if my battery is low, let's say at night when there is no pv, why would I want to keep pulling from battery instead of switching 100% to grid. It seems like pulling using a charger to charge battery and pull from it would shorten the lifespan of the battery, and would also be more energy intensive than just switching fully to grid.
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It's a personal preference thing, I guess.
My goal is to not use the grid at all. But if I must, I want to use as little as possible.
Instead of switching over at say 20%. And switching back at say 50%. I would rather float at 25%, and let the sun bring it back up in the morning.
 
BTW, I was only trying to settle all the speculation and guesswork from previous posts regarding the MPP 6048's since I know a good deal about these, not trying to say these are any better than other options, everyone has different situation, needs and budgets.
Ditto the LVX 6048's which I know less about (don't have one) but these were my other focus at the time I started on this journey, so I feel I can comment as far as I have done, and reference to the vids on YT that Will and Ian took a deeper dive on with the LVX.
Wasn't trying to start a "this is better than that" discussion. just setting the record straight on the features of one specific make and model where I know details.
 
mvonw said:
What’s this ‘grid’ thing people keep talking about?
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You may have read about it, back in ancient times, before On-Site-Power-Generation, they had to string miles and miles of wires on towers and poles to bring electrical power to each and every home and business, very complex and expensive systems...lol.
 
1201 said:
The lv6048 is more versatile imo. I'm starting with one, just to run my minisplits, so $1100 new. With 6548 i would have to start with two from the get go.

If I want to add more loads later I can add another one.

Also, my peak demand is 15kw. I would need 4x 6548s for that but only 3x 6048s. No contest the 6048 is the better choice for me
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I have found it is way cheaper in the long run to purchase what you need from the start and build your system to handle your needs.

What are you running at 15Kw? 20 hp electric motor? :)

My Official Loads Test Technician (the wife) can't even load down the system that hard. Maybe 10Kw total at any given time, usually 6Kw on one leg and 4Kw on the other.

I don't think 3 LV6048's are going to work for you as well as you think. You will need to have a very good balance on both legs.
 
Zwy said:
I have found it is way cheaper in the long run to purchase what you need from the start and build your system to handle your needs.

What are you running at 15Kw? 20 hp electric motor? :)

My Official Loads Test Technician (the wife) can't even load down the system that hard. Maybe 10Kw total at any given time, usually 6Kw on one leg and 4Kw on the other.

I don't think 3 LV6048's are going to work for you as well as you think. You will need to have a very good balance on both legs.
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It's an all electric house and the major loads are all 240v so balancing the system is not an issue

HVAC at full tilt is 6.5kw. doing laundry, water heater 4.5kw and dryer 5.7kw are usually on at the same time so 15kw peak demand is not difficult

And that's what I like about the 6048. You can start smaller and add more later inexpensively
 
Zwy said:
I have found it is way cheaper in the long run to purchase what you need from the start and build your system to handle your needs.
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Sigh. You weren’t supposed to say this. You’re gonna make me throw away at least a dozen more napkins of solar math and start over…..again

But seriously, I appreciate the off the cuff sentiments like this. People that have been thru it already, will likely save me money and heartache in the back end if I heed their input
 
Zwy said:
My Official Loads Test Technician (the wife) can't even load down the system that hard. Maybe 10Kw total at any given time, usually 6Kw on one leg and 4Kw on the other.
I don't think 3 LV6048's are going to work for you as well as you think. You will need to have a very good balance on both legs.
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They are not that sensitive to balance, I have tested them at full load on L1 and just putting some lights on L2 no fault.
But full load on L1 and Zero on L2 the unit goes into fault "out of balance error".
My offical load tester is completely capable of running the hot water for a bath, (elect HWT comes on), switching on the double oven (so that it's up to temperature for her to put in the roast after her bath) toss in a load of laundry in the washer, after moving the wet clothes from the last load into the dryer and hitting quick dry setting, and clicking the heated dry setting on the dishwasher so that the dishes are clean and dry by the time supper is done. Yeah about 18kW without breaking a sweat. but that is my life.
 
GOO5E said:
Sigh. You weren’t supposed to say this. You’re gonna make me throw away at least a dozen more napkins of solar math and start over…..again

But seriously, I appreciate the off the cuff sentiments like this. People that have been thru it already, will likely save me money and heartache in the back end if I heed their input
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I'm currently in the process of adding 2 EG4 SCC's due to the 6500EX inverters not working out for me. With the LV6548's, I had to split the array in half to get VOC low enough. I've been running all summer so far until July 4th with just half the array. I did get one SCC installed and ran some cable over to the main busbars. The SCC has been working great, this weekend I should be able to finish the install as I have all the items here that I need. My array is 420 feet away so I wanted the higher PV voltage. Wire cost was a wash, no advantage to it. I might run 2 strings in parallel and see how that compares to the series string but really, I need a break from working on the system.

It's a pain having to go back in and change things or add onto the system. I ran all EMT and a trough so now I have holes to block off and install more items on the wall. If I decided to add 2 more LV6548's, I'll have to crowd things close together to fit the wall.
 
OffGridForGood said:
They are not that sensitive to balance, I have tested them at full load on L1 and just putting some lights on L2 no fault.
But full load on L1 and Zero on L2 the unit goes into fault "out of balance error".
My offical load tester is completely capable of running the hot water for a bath, (elect HWT comes on), switching on the double oven (so that it's up to temperature for her to put in the roast after her bath) toss in a load of laundry in the washer, after moving the wet clothes from the last load into the dryer and hitting quick dry setting, and clicking the heated dry setting on the dishwasher so that the dishes are clean and dry by the time supper is done. Yeah about 18kW without breaking a sweat. but that is my life.
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The problem with building a system to accommodate abusive behavior is it gets costly. The rest of the time the system is idling along without any function.

I'd find a new Official Load Tester, but that gets costly too. :ROFLMAO:
 
GOO5E said:
Sigh. You weren’t supposed to say this. You’re gonna make me throw away at least a dozen more napkins of solar math and start over…..again

But seriously, I appreciate the off the cuff sentiments like this. People that have been thru it already, will likely save me money and heartache in the back end if I heed their input
Click to expand...
It does take some guts to do this from the point where you have never used solar, and are adding up all the costs (on Napkin # 22) and then explaining to the "Offical Load Tester" why we need to spend 30 kilo-dollars (lol) on some solar panels 'and stuff' . without sounding like ya just lost your F@$@#ing mind...
I will admit that I started the way I did, with the equipment I did, to gradually get into this, see what it could do, and not do, but be able to DIY, paying for everything as we went (no financing) and expand it as I (we) felt comfortable to do so. It has been a great experience.
I can certainly see one day in the not too distant future going to a pair of EG 18kpv or seeing what other new and interesting equipment is available by then. Meantime, the system works, runs everything I wanted (and more) has got us through a number of winter storms with flying colours, and one day when the MPP 6048's are no longer required for the homestead, we will repurpose them at the cabin or set them up for family or sell them.
 
timselectric said:
It's a personal preference thing, I guess.
My goal is to not use the grid at all. But if I must, I want to use as little as possible.
Instead of switching over at say 20%. And switching back at say 50%. I would rather float at 25%, and let the sun bring it back up in the morning.
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I don’t have enough PV on the Growatt to run the house and charge the batteries yet but still have the grid tie system. So I switch to utility during the day and let the Growatt charge the batteries. At night i run on batteries so I’m not pulling from the grid. I’m building a nice banked credit with MetEd since Pennsylvania still has 1:1 net metering.
 
mvonw said:
Oooh. I have three grids then. I just don’t understand why everyone always says the have one ‘grid’
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The only times I switched back to grid was working on replacing the EG4 6500EX's and when the second pair of EG4's were making the lights glow in the dark with the switch off. That was at 11 pm, I wasn't interested in playing games and decided sleep was more important than $1 worth of electricity.

Other than that, haven't used grid power. Winter might be different, but I think I'll be fine off grid.

My shop is still on grid power, I might decide one morning I'm done working. I might add a small system for lights and running boiler and pumps but usage would be much lower.
 
Zwy said:
The only times I switched back to grid was working on replacing the EG4 6500EX's and when the second pair of EG4's were making the lights glow in the dark with the switch off. That was at 11 pm, I wasn't interested in playing games and decided sleep was more important than $1 worth of electricity.

Other than that, haven't used grid power. Winter might be different, but I think I'll be fine off grid.

My shop is still on grid power, I might decide one morning I'm done working. I might add a small system for lights and running boiler and pumps but usage would be much lower.
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With your twin 6548's and 54kWh battery bank. and 8.5kW PV you and I have about the same sized set up, I bet you could run your shop and home together. (but keep the 'Official Load Tester' away from the Dryer and Double oven while your in the shop?) lol.
 
Zwy said:
The problem with building a system to accommodate abusive behavior is it gets costly. The rest of the time the system is idling along without any function.

I'd find a new Official Load Tester, but that gets costly too. :ROFLMAO:
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Is it worth it to even put those high demand but low energy consumption loads on an inverter?

My dryer runs 5.7kw but uses only about 80kwh a month(going from memory here. I'll check when I get home.)edit(last 4 weeks 67kwh total)

To me it's not worth running that with solar as the power demand is high but the energy usage is low. with the dryer on I've seen peaks demand of 15.4kw but if I leave that on the grid then peak demand to contend with would be 9.7kw. I would save one whole inverter, which at 85 watts would save 60kwh a month. So, adding an inverter and 60kwh a month to move that last 80kwh a month to solar just doesn't make a lot of sense. To me. Same thing with oven and cooktop. Demand can be super high but I maybe use 20kwh a month for cooking.

On the other hand, my minisplits are perfect for solar. I can run all 3 on one 6kw inverter and that alone accounts for 60% of my total monthly consumption
 
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42OhmsPA said:
It was more like 1.xv on one and 2.9 on the other.
It has no problem handling the startup of my well pump with other normal loads running.

NOTE the 6kw is a combined load of both phases so you only get 3kw per leg continuous.
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If you only get 0-3kW on one leg and 0-3kW on the other leg of a 6kW inverter, that’s not any ‘imbalance’ at all.

Imbalance is when a LF 6kW split-phase inverter can deliver 4kW on one leg and 2kW on the other leg (for example) because of the integrated Autotransformer…
 
1201 said:
Is it worth it to even put those high demand but low energy consumption loads on an inverter?

My dryer runs 5.7kw but uses only about 80kwh a month(going from memory here. I'll check when I get home.)

To me it's not worth running that with solar as the power demand is high but the energy usage is low. with the dryer on I've seen peaks demand of 15.4kw but if I leave that on the grid then peak demand to contend with would be 9.7kw. I would save one whole inverter, which at 85 watts would save 60kwh a month. So, adding an inverter and 60kwh a month to move that last 80kwh a month to solar just doesn't make a lot of sense. To me. Same thing with oven and cooktop. Demand can be super high but I maybe use 20kwh a month for cooking.

On the other hand, my minisplits are perfect for solar. I can run all 3 on one 6kw inverter and that alone accounts for 60% of my total monthly consumption
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Is there correlation to inverter size and idle usage?
It often seems explained as cheap = high idle and Vice versa. However, now that it is becoming more common to see larger inverters, even “expensive” ones seem to have a fairly high idle (often similar for 2x small vs 1x large it would appear)

In the situation that someone does not have grid fallback, in your opinion, is it then preferable to take those loads you mentioned (range, laundry) and run gas? That is my intent, but I believe theres also concern with the long term cost/availability.
 
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