diy solar

diy solar

Cheap mini solar field build

Gotshocked!

Gotshocked!

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
May 16, 2023
Messages
340
Location
Missouri
I might do a build thread. The grid would be a backup to the system until the budget permits for 100% off-grid. I'd love to remove the power poles! No back feeding the grid.
I'm bouncing back & forth between the Eg418 + 6 EG4 batts and SolArk15 + 5 SOK batts with 12-14kw of pv's.
The only different & interesting aspect to this potential thread would be my plan for an ultra-cheap, diy mini solar field.
Got the grass mowed and sprayed to clear a path for said mini field.
Waiting on an electrician to come look at what I need to do on the AC side. They were out once before, but the owner wants to see it.

The electrician thinks I'll need a different meter, even though I'm not back feeding. The electric co-op has told me thrice that they do not need to change it out.

Does anybody reading this know if one uses a hybrid inverter like the two mentioned above and will not be back feeding the grid, which of the two parties mentioned above is correct?

Does anybody reading this know exactly what needs to be installed between the meter and the inverter?

View attachment 162161

View attachment 162163
 
Might need a cutoff between the meter and inverter. If you are not backfeeding, then your current meter won't be doing anything different.

Either inverter will work. But, they really shine in an on-grid environment. If you plan to never connect to the grid, then a cheaper off-grid inverter would work.
 
Thanks for the feedback DIYrich.
I know it needs a 200a shutoff. It'll be ran as a whole home backup with supply side tap I think.
I'm on the grid, for now.
IMG_20230729_084814996.jpg
 
Afaik supply side tap refers to a specific backfeeding method for grid tied solar, and is not correctly used to refer to any potential configuration of an off grid / self consumption setup.

I believe the term "pass through" is sometimes used for configurations where the entire service feeder is wired through the inverter bank ahead of the main panel.
 
hwy17 said:
Afaik supply side tap refers to a specific backfeeding method for grid tied solar, and is not correctly used to refer to any potential configuration of an off grid / self consumption setup.

I believe the term "pass through" is sometimes used for configurations where the entire service feeder is wired through the inverter bank ahead of the main panel.
Click to expand...
Thank you for some knowledge hwy17.
I read the manuals for these two inverters with nearly 0 electrical back round and thought that the various approaches available per the EG418 manual for example all pertained to the ac side but not specific to backfeeding.
The manual (EG4) states that it's a way to intertie to the grid & achieve whole home backup.
 
Oh interesting, I see what you're talking about. The supply side tap + whole home backup config is quite complex I'd prefer a pass through design but yeah I stand corrected.
 
The 18kpv manual is here
signaturesolar.com

EG4 18KPV Hybrid Inverter | All-In-One Solar Inverter | 18000W PV Input | 12000W Output | 48V 120/240V Split Phase | EG4 18KPV-12LV

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL
signaturesolar.com signaturesolar.com
and the picture below shows it.
www.mayfield.energy

Code Corner: 2020 NEC 705.11 Supply-Side Connections — Mayfield Renewables

In this edition of our Code Corner series, we’re covering NEC 2020 section 705.11 as it pertains to supply-side connections.
www.mayfield.energy www.mayfield.energy
Apparently this can possibly overload the service entrance and I think power needs to be cut to get it installed. That 220 breaker up top in my breaker box is not needed. It could be used I guess but it would need to be on the opposite side of the connection and because of this, I think I need a sub-panel maybe?

1691757767482.png
 
The 18kpv supply side tap diagrams hurt my brain a bit. I'm sure they are logically functional but the whole home backup configs seem hacky to me. Maybe that's just because we are never allowed to use supply side taps in California so I'm uncomfortable because I'm unfamiliar, or maybe there's a good reason why we don't.

That Mayfield diagram is for a regular grid tied export inverter, and I understand taps more in that application.

Sol ark seems to have much more sensible suggested diagrams for their 15k.
 
I love this one right here. I can manage doing this myself. Something tells me there's more to it than this, though SolArk sent me this diagram and said this is it.
I hope to get everything behind the wall (except the batteries) as opposed to wire trays and conduit everywhere because the room is finished. The fused ac disconnect they have below could install on the exterior of the wall right next to the meter side of the panel and enter the breaker box from behind. I'll bring the pv conduit into the crawl space and up the wall, behind the drywall, so it comes out right under the inverter.

1691782147402.png
 
Yup, that's full pass through and moving the service feeders is a big ask but it's the most intuitive install config.

In the 15k manuals they have a full pass through with manual bypass and that would be best, so you can use manual bypass in case the sol ark dies.
 
So it's as simple as that? Get the feeders out of the breaker box and into the fused ac disc. then to the inverter and then get the inverter back to the breaker box? You wrote that it's a big ask, but to me it doesn't seem to be too bad.
I compare this to the EG4 18kpv and I wonder, I must not be understanding what I'm reading because they are very similar therefore should install in a very similar way and the EG4 unit is much more work and confusion for the lay person.
 
Gotshocked! said:
So it's as simple as that? Get the feeders out of the breaker box and into the fused ac disc. then to the inverter and then get the inverter back to the breaker box? You wrote that it's a big ask, but to me it doesn't seem to be too bad.
I compare this to the EG4 18kpv and I wonder, I must not be understanding what I'm reading because they are very similar therefore should install in a very similar way and the EG4 unit is much more work and confusion for the lay person.
Click to expand...
That's how it should work for both the Eg4/Lux and Solark/Deye, yes.

@Watts Happening care to share any insight after swapping to the 15k?
 
42OhmsPA said:
That's how it should work for both the Eg4/Lux and Solark/Deye, yes.

@Watts Happening care to share any insight after swapping to the 15k?
Click to expand...
After my recent experience I’m clearly heavily biased towards Sol-Ark.

Over time I believe that gap may narrow, but currently, based on what I just went through a week ago, the EG4 did indeed backfeed.

Maybe a simpler way to put it is, for me they are both functionally the same on paper, I don’t care if one has slightly better specs here or there. When I installed the EG4 I spent 20-30 hours of my time trying to make it work as it was supposed to and never attained that. The Sol-Ark I hung on the wall, connected and it “just worked”.

If you’ve got the time to spend, I’m sure the EG4 will be great. I just don’t and I can’t backfeed.

This brings the next question though, why changing batteries based on inverter? I have both the SOK and EG4 LL here and would be more than happy to run either, wouldn’t make a difference which inverter (either inverter will talk to either battery). At that point it would simply come down to cost, and that said, you’d be hard pressed to argue against the new battery Signature Solar announced today (unless you need it today).

I’d probably go with a Sol-Ark 15k and two of these, call it a day. https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-powerpro-14kwh-all-weather-lithium-solar-battery-wallmount/
 
42OhmsPA said:
That's how it should work for both the Eg4/Lux and Solark/Deye, yes.

@Watts Happening care to share any insight after swapping to the 15k?
Click to expand...
I hope so but have you ever looked at the EG4 manual? On pg. 26, they show many different scenarios, but only 2 would pertain to me.

"Meter socket is stand alone. Main panel is connected to meter socket wire wiring to separate panel."
then
"Main breaker is part of a load center with load breakers"
I believe this is what I've got.

The manual goes on to say "Use whole home backup with supply side tap diagram" or "Replace main breaker panel with components in feeder tap diagram".

So, I guess I've got options, whole home backup with either supply side or feeder tap. Am I wrong here?

Supply side is cost effective BUT can be an issue with battery charging. Feeder tap looks really expensive. It might make sense for me to concentrate on going off-grid, using the $ for more solar & batteries rather than dealing with all the bullshit associated with these AIO's. I've been reading these threads regarding back feeding issues as well, so some lv6548's might be in my future.
 
Watts Happening said:
After my recent experience I’m clearly heavily biased towards Sol-Ark.

Over time I believe that gap may narrow, but currently, based on what I just went through a week ago, the EG4 did indeed backfeed.

Maybe a simpler way to put it is, for me they are both functionally the same on paper, I don’t care if one has slightly better specs here or there. When I installed the EG4 I spent 20-30 hours of my time trying to make it work as it was supposed to and never attained that. The Sol-Ark I hung on the wall, connected and it “just worked”.

If you’ve got the time to spend, I’m sure the EG4 will be great. I just don’t and I can’t backfeed.

This brings the next question though, why changing batteries based on inverter? I have both the SOK and EG4 LL here and would be more than happy to run either, wouldn’t make a difference which inverter (either inverter will talk to either battery). At that point it would simply come down to cost, and that said, you’d be hard pressed to argue against the new battery Signature Solar announced today (unless you need it today).

I’d probably go with a Sol-Ark 15k and two of these, call it a day. https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-powerpro-14kwh-all-weather-lithium-solar-battery-wallmount/
Click to expand...
From what I've read, the SOK would probably be my #1 choice because they're serviceable by the owner. A cell goes bad and you can replace it yourself.
Hanging batteries on the wall is pretty trick but that's a shit ton of weight per battery. They're nearly 3 in one.
The SolArk is the original and more trouble-free.
The EG4 is the best price.
The SolArk cannot guarantee a 100% trouble-free experience BUT EG4 can guarantee a much better price.
 
I need to figure out:
1. Just how expensive and invasive is the "feeder tap" design?
2. Will a supply side tap work safely in my situation?
3. Can I install a completely off-grid system, keep the grid and separate the two with a manual switch?
 
hwy17 said:
Yup, that's full pass through and moving the service feeders is a big ask but it's the most intuitive install config.

In the 15k manuals they have a full pass through with manual bypass and that would be best, so you can use manual bypass in case the sol ark dies.
Click to expand...
I see the standard wire diagram with bypass transfer switch. There's a big difference between the way these two inverters install.
The EG4 is cheaper to buy but the SolArk looks like it's much less invasive, easier & cheaper to install.
If this is the case, I'm going with SolArk.
 
I went with Schneider which makes everything more complicated, but from everything I've read about the AIO's my outsider impression is that I would also want a sol ark.
 
Gotshocked! said:
I see the standard wire diagram with bypass transfer switch. There's a big difference between the way these two inverters install.
The EG4 is cheaper to buy but the SolArk looks like it's much less invasive, easier & cheaper to install.
If this is the case, I'm going with SolArk.
Click to expand...
I think the eg4 and sol-ark install the same way. Eg4's diagram is more verbose, and includes a manual transfer switch in order to take the eg4 offline. You can do that too for the sol-ark.
 
DIYrich said:
I think the eg4 and sol-ark install the same way. Eg4's diagram is more verbose, and includes a manual transfer switch in order to take the eg4 offline. You can do that too for the sol-ark.
Click to expand...
I thought so too but not according to the manuals.
 
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