diy solar

diy solar

I'm in the city,but !

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cj5orion

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Jan 18, 2022
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Landlord/homeowner wants to be Off-Grid.

So...I wonder...

Why are there more people not hooking up the "240"'s to solar? Is it the startup surge !,eating up available solar ?
Every morn,there's plenty of batt % left over and I'm in san diego,lots of sunshine,so... I'm thinking,(oh-oh),why not hookup W/D,HVAC,n stove/oven,(I know ! ),landlord-roomy-homeowner likes it though ! Except for start up surge and being carefully only 1 at a time ! I'm not seeing any trouble ?
What say you ?
 
One thing to watch out for is that you can't really say that only one of the 240V loads would be used at the same time. The HVAC is going to come on while the electric stove/oven is in use, I guarantee it!

Also, given the above, you might easily exceed the peak output capability of the inverter and trip the whole system.
 
You can control this to some degree by using interlocks or a "partial" house automation system, but you'll soon have a rube goldberg machine that only you can understand, troubleshoot, and maintain. I would recommend not assuming only one heavy load at a time and buy an inverter(s) that can handle your peak demand.
 
Madco makes an extremely valid point. Until you truly go off-grid, you won't really "get it" just how much you've become accustomed to living on-grid. Running the A/C, clothes dryer, roasting a chicken in the electric oven, while boiling the kettle and oh yeah, the wife is taking a shower, which is running the deep-well water pump, as well as the water heater. All 240V except the window A/C unit and kettle. You'd need a MASSIVE solar system and battery bank to power all that at once. So to keep costs down, many off-gridders learn to live with less energy usage, or at least not to use it all at once. Run the dryer and the stove OR the A/C and the kettle. And the water pump could run at any time (sink use, flushing toilets, etc.) That sort of system could be much smaller and perhaps 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost of a system that could operate as if on-grid.
 
What made me start thinking about all this you ask, our ONLY 240 is W/D,stove/oven,HVAC,(hardly used),WH is gas,(which is my choice for all "heat producing" utilities,,landlord wants to go all electric!).WH would be "non-user" controlled,unlike... stove/oven-W/D.
SO...as long as loads are "controlled",(ALMOST ALWAYS,ONE AT A TIME) .Probably won't be any issues,,,that's what I'm seeing,more so if things are done during daylight ! (which gets harder as we get into the BRUTAL San Diego winters ! Plus we STILL set our clocks back !
Any other thoughts ?
 
cj5orion said:
What made me start thinking about all this you ask, our ONLY 240 is W/D,stove/oven,HVAC,(hardly used),WH is gas,(which is my choice for all "heat producing" utilities,,landlord wants to go all electric!).WH would be "non-user" controlled,unlike... stove/oven-W/D.
SO...as long as loads are "controlled",(ALMOST ALWAYS,ONE AT A TIME) .Probably won't be any issues\
Click to expand...
I think that both yourself and the landlord have unrealistic ideas on how solar really works. Any appliance that deals with heat, be it a toaster oven, or the kitchen stove, or the air-conditioner consumes a VERY LARGE amount of electricity. While a large solar array can accomodate one or maybe two appliances at a time, this is ONLY during peak solar hours, which is between 10am and 2pm. So, what happens when you want to cook dinner at 6pm?

If you only have South-facing panels, the total amount of power outside of your peak times has to come out of the batteries. And cooking/baking anything with an all-electric stove is going to be a massive load on the batteries. That means having an extremely large (read expensive) battery bank. or be willing to experience daily system shutdowns from overloading the system. Same with air-conditioning. Are you willing to shut off the air-con at 3pm because the amount of solar has dropped below what it can feed the system. I don't think so. What will happen is you will push your system past the breaking point, till it collapses and shuts down. Maybe damaging your batteries.

My personal experience is the only person that will "control" their useage is the person that built the system. Even here at my own home I still have to admonish the wife (Honey, could you please wait till after sunrise to start that load of laundry?) about power consumption. She just sees everything as being supported transparently. She ignores the time I spend in the utility room looking at my battery state of charge.
 
hwy17 said:
Stoves and ovens aren't a startup surge concern, so the only reason not to put that on is a total wattage and consumption concern.
Click to expand...
Yep ,,,THATS my secondary concern.W/D start up n then "running" use.stove/oven/countertop air fryer. Oven used infrequently,(too big for single guys),mostly stove top n air fryer.
I wanted to get you guys opinion n then just wire it to CLP n see what it does! Can always leave breaker off if it's too much.Owner wants to see how low I can get to "Off-Grid",minimal utility usage.
Even though we are on grid,challenge accepted ?
Too get you guys opinion is 1 st step.
PS: our "system,so far,(been st least a .month), is powering about 80% of house load,only thing left is 1 120 circuit, (bathrooms) n the 240 "stuff".
Batt is at 70-80 % at 5 or so AM.
 
MichaelK said:
I think that both yourself and the landlord have unrealistic ideas on how solar really works.
Click to expand...
It reminds me of the time I had a guy come into harbor freight and wanted to buy one of the Fisher Price My First Solar kits to run his dryer. The look of disappointment on his face when I tried to explain to him how it might run his dryer for about 3 minutes a day and he needed a few thousand dollars in inverter and batteries to make that happen almost hurt.

Knowing what your loads add up to over 24 hours is usually very eye opening and really shows how solar can have its place, but it's not the End-All-Be-All. Feeding things like a dryer that's drawing 50a for an hour is 12Kwh or just over 2 rackmount batteries, or about $3000 just there. There comes a point, hopefully early on, where you really have to ask yourself 1: do I have the money to front for this and 2: can I wait the X-many years to break even on it?
 
MichaelK said:
I think that both yourself and the landlord have unrealistic ideas on how solar really works. Any appliance that deals with heat, be it a toaster oven, or the kitchen stove, or the air-conditioner consumes a VERY LARGE amount of electricity. While a large solar array can accomodate one or maybe two appliances at a time, this is ONLY during peak solar hours, which is between 10am and 2pm. So, what happens when you want to cook dinner at 6pm?

If you only have South-facing panels, the total amount of power outside of your peak times has to come out of the batteries. And cooking/baking anything with an all-electric stove is going to be a massive load on the batteries. That means having an extremely large (read expensive) battery bank. or be willing to experience daily system shutdowns from overloading the system. Same with air-conditioning. Are you willing to shut off the air-con at 3pm because the amount of solar has dropped below what it can feed the system. I don't think so. What will happen is you will push your system past the breaking point, till it collapses and shuts down. Maybe damaging your batteries.

My personal experience is the only person that will "control" their useage is the person that built the system. Even here at my own home I still have to admonish the wife (Honey, could you please wait till after sunrise to start that load of laundry?) about power consumption. She just sees everything as being supported transparently. She ignores the time I spend in the utility room looking at my battery state of charge.
Click to expand...
And there's the rub. If you can't get the family to buy in, and you don't want to be the naggy power cop then you should just bite the bullet, pay the extra, and stay on grid.
 
cj5orion said:
SO...as long as loads are "controlled",(ALMOST ALWAYS,ONE AT A TIME) .
Click to expand...

Sounds easy enough, right? I don't know about your family, maybe they are different than my own (and many on this forum)...

If you live alone, this is fairly easy once you train yourself. If you have family (spouse, kids, live-in parents, etc), then GOOD LUCK, because most often the family just doesn't "get it" and they will trip a breaker or fuse or overload protection, shutting off power. Or if you have cheap equipment, it could get damaged because the supposed overload protection is too slow or is broken (fire or dead weight). And if you're not home to get it going again or they're not inclined to know how to power the system back up, you will come home to some very angry family! And then they will be demanding you move to a place that is back on the grid or just return to the grid where you live and then you have to sell some rather expensive equipment at a significant loss. I mean, it's only money, but just giving you a heads up of the worst case scenario.

Or maybe your family is trainable in this regard, but it will take time. Your whole family will have to learn to know, 24/7, which devices are powered on and by whom. Maybe putting little wireless screens in each room that shows what is being powered at the current moment, so they can make a more educated decision as to whether or not they should turn on the oven, etc.
 
Tomthumb62 said:
Sounds easy enough, right? I don't know about your family, maybe they are different than my own (and many on this forum)...

If you live alone, this is fairly easy once you train yourself. If you have family (spouse, kids, live-in parents, etc), then GOOD LUCK, because most often the family just doesn't "get it" and they will trip a breaker or fuse or overload protection, shutting off power. Or if you have cheap equipment, it could get damaged because the supposed overload protection is too slow or is broken (fire or dead weight). And if you're not home to get it going again or they're not inclined to know how to power the system back up, you will come home to some very angry family! And then they will be demanding you move to a place that is back on the grid or just return to the grid where you live and then you have to sell some rather expensive equipment at a significant loss. I mean, it's only money, but just giving you a heads up of the worst case scenario.

Or maybe your family is trainable in this regard, but it will take time. Your whole family will have to learn to know, 24/7, which devices are powered on and by whom. Maybe putting little wireless screens in each room that shows what is being powered at the current moment, so they can make a more educated decision as to whether or not they should turn on the oven, etc.
Click to expand...
Somewhere...in prev. Post, I'm sure I mentioned this is a house of 3 single guys.
 
IF ? ...there's a problem with ANY of the 240 stuff on solar... I'll leave it on grid n explain it to owner/roomie.
Not a problem!!!
It's a pretty good system that's there,need to push it to max.
SAFELY !!!!
 
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Induction cooktop w/ convection oven, new aio washer/dryer, heatpump water heater, Mini splits for heat/cool, you might get close to going all solar.
 
cj5orion said:
Landlord/homeowner wants to be Off-Grid.
Click to expand...

Why?


Easiest thing to do is install grid-tie net metering system. If your utility has such a program.
Simply look up total kWh consumption for previous year and install a system designed to supply that total. The grid is your battery, and your surge source.
But analyze it financially first. It may have short break even time, like 4 years or less, or it may not.


If due to grid unreliability, your off-grid system will likely be less reliable. But combined with the grid, some loads could be much more reliably powered.
 
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