diy solar

diy solar

AIO vs separate components

1201 said:
Ok it helps that they are ground mounted. 5 panels in parallel * 2 arrays- that's going to be some thick expensive wire. I haven't pulled a calculator but I'm guessing 6ga thhn * 250ft?

Btw which charge controller? Midnite classic 150 x2 is $900
Victron 150/100 x2 is $1000. Add 6 awg wire and you are at the price of an aio just in charge controllers and wire.

Then you have to buy an inverter. I think for your use case an aio like the 6000xp would work better.

Or buy two lv6048 for $700 each and have one as a spare
Click to expand...

6,000 watts can handle 2 refrigerators, 2 freezers, a well pump, 950 watt air-conditioner and a 5,600 watt dryer all coming on at once? Someone told me in this forum I was pushing my luck with a 2,500w for just the cold storage appliances.

I'm not sure but what I calculated for 3 in series with 5 series in parallel I need a SCC rating for 47.1a at 188.26v which would be 15 panels for each controller utilizing all 30 in my pallet.
I may go back to my original plan and set the shed with appliances up on its own system and do the same with the well pump since it's 120 or so feet from the house. It's power is currently grid tied and the existing wire runs away from the new house so it's either run another wire or just put it on a mini system and be done with it and not worry about it invthe house system. So yeah if 6,000 watts will do it then great!
I have a business and wire isn't quite as much for me as it is for the general public with contractors pricing but smaller is definitely better.
If there is a better way then I am all ears. I'm hear to learn from you guys and make like minded friends. Not too many people in my area are keen about solar. Quite the opposite as it's frowned on because of appearance.
 
chilly2 said:
I'm torn on the answer. An AIO seems like the better choice for most situations these days, though every setup is different and success ultimately depends on a clear understanding of your situation and usage. Throwing hardware at it, whether AIO or components without doing your homework may lead to disappointment.

I had typed up my particular situation here in the thread and was close to posting when the browser locked up and I lost the lot. Probably the universe telling me not to bore you senseless with it, so in short it was a small component based setup that grew. Currently 3.5kWh of panels, 48v 5kWh battery, grid tie zero export inverters and an off grid inverter for emergencies. Spent about $3900 total, though panels through Santan would have cut about a grand off that.

If I was starting from scratch now rather than 4 years ago, given how much better and cheaper AIOs and batteries have become, I might have gone with an AIO though it wouldn't have been nearly as 'educational'.

In either case I would definitely go with 48v rack mount batteries instead of bolting 12v ones together!
Click to expand...

I'm definitely going actual 48v batteries with all the headaches that come into play with series 12 or 24v for 48. No thanks for me on that. The AIO may be the best way as I will need two 5/6000w for split phase or one 10,000w split phase. At least with 2 for split phase if one killed over I'm not totally dead invthe water.
 
Ronifer said:
The numbers are:
39.42 voc
9.42 Impp
If that's the right values for calculations then 118.26v for 3 in series and parallel 5 of those comes to 47.1 amps. That would utilize all 30 panels with two charge controllers? Unless I was supposed to go by the short circuit amps. I did the math on some all in one suggested array per charger voltages listed so that I may have goofed in figuring v/a for the controllers.
I hope I can keep them 15/15 without spending a small fortune.
Click to expand...

That's fine on a 150V controller.
 
Ronifer said:
6,000 watts can handle 2 refrigerators, 2 freezers, a well pump, 950 watt air-conditioner and a 5,600 watt dryer all coming on at once? Someone told me in this forum I was pushing my luck with a 2,500w for just the cold storage appliances.

I'm not sure but what I calculated for 3 in series with 5 series in parallel I need a SCC rating for 47.1a at 188.26v which would be 15 panels for each controller utilizing all 30 in my pallet.
I may go back to my original plan and set the shed with appliances up on its own system and do the same with the well pump since it's 120 or so feet from the house. It's power is currently grid tied and the existing wire runs away from the new house so it's either run another wire or just put it on a mini system and be done with it and not worry about it invthe house system. So yeah if 6,000 watts will do it then great!
I have a business and wire isn't quite as much for me as it is for the general public with contractors pricing but smaller is definitely better.
If there is a better way then I am all ears. I'm hear to learn from you guys and make like minded friends. Not too many people in my area are keen about solar. Quite the opposite as it's frowned on because of appearance.
Click to expand...
Yes you would need two charge controllers and that will set you back about $1k.

6kw will not handle all that. You'll need at least two since you want to dry your clothes with electricity. I'm guessing there is something preventing you from putting up a clothesline and drying your clothes directly with sun and wind?

Now we are at 12kw. The price difference between aio and separates is growing. And growing.
 
1201 said:
Yes you would need two charge controllers and that will set you back about $1k.

6kw will not handle all that. You'll need at least two since you want to dry your clothes with electricity. I'm guessing there is something preventing you from putting up a clothesline and drying your clothes directly with sun and wind?

Now we are at 12kw. The price difference between aio and separates is growing. And growing.
Click to expand...

No one being home during the day prevents a clothes line but I was raised using one and so was my wife. We have oop up thunderstorms here in the summer and with no one home should one POP UP I'd be picking up what clothes I could find in someone elses yard lol.
There are a few 150/60 amp controllers that are $100 and I would imagine they are as good as what's inside the AIO. Cheap is cheap manufacturing is cheap manufacturing be it in pieces or whole so I don't see a reason to buy two $500 controllers if the cheap ones in AIO are good enough for the job.
 
Ronifer said:
No one being home during the day prevents a clothes line but I was raised using one and so was my wife. We have oop up thunderstorms here in the summer and with no one home should one POP UP I'd be picking up what clothes I could find in someone elses yard lol.
There are a few 150/60 amp controllers that are $100 and I would imagine they are as good as what's inside the AIO. Cheap is cheap manufacturing is cheap manufacturing be it in pieces or whole so I don't see a reason to buy two $500 controllers if the cheap ones in AIO are good enough for the job.
Click to expand...
If you're going for cheap there is no cheaper mppt charge controller than the one inside an aio ?

Also 60a at 48v is less than 3000w so maybe get 3.
 
Late to the thread, lots of good info so far.

In my opinion the SRNE HYP series AIOs are a great option here, they can be paralleled for additional expansion.
Each one has 5kw AC output 5.5kw PV input. You will need 2 to get 120/240V.
I've been running my entire house with the SRNE ASF 10kw for a while now with 0 issues, I'd recommend it as long as you won't need more than 10kw output since it can't be paralleled. I have a link with tons of info in my info. They are ~$1400 delivered.

If you don't want the AIO I'd go with a Schneider, Midnite or Victron modular system. Keep in mind you can buy multiple SRNEs for the cost of one modular setup mentioned. The Midnite DIY series is made by SRNE.
 
Ronifer said:
6,000 watts can handle 2 refrigerators, 2 freezers, a well pump, 950 watt air-conditioner and a 5,600 watt dryer all coming on at once? Someone told me in this forum I was pushing my luck with a 2,500w for just the cold storage appliances.

I'm not sure but what I calculated for 3 in series with 5 series in parallel I need a SCC rating for 47.1a at 188.26v which would be 15 panels for each controller utilizing all 30 in my pallet.
I may go back to my original plan and set the shed with appliances up on its own system and do the same with the well pump since it's 120 or so feet from the house. It's power is currently grid tied and the existing wire runs away from the new house so it's either run another wire or just put it on a mini system and be done with it and not worry about it invthe house system. So yeah if 6,000 watts will do it then great!
I have a business and wire isn't quite as much for me as it is for the general public with contractors pricing but smaller is definitely better.
If there is a better way then I am all ears. I'm hear to learn from you guys and make like minded friends. Not too many people in my area are keen about solar. Quite the opposite as it's frowned on because of appearance.
Click to expand...
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I, personally, find a big PV array quite beautiful
 
DEJA-VU ALERT !
Many have trod this path and ended up filled with regrets topped off with angst. So It's time to say SLOW DOWN !
You are being Information Overloaded and that only complicates everything and WILL COST YOU $$$.
DO NOT BUY ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE A SOLID PLAN ! No Impulse Shopping ! (unless you wanna get Divorced)

1) You really need a proper assessment of your power usage, ultimately identify your peak usage periods and know what the most Killowatt Hours you use per day and when (time of year)
2) Understand how much Generation (solar) and how much battery Storage Capacity kWh's) will be required, INCLUDING reserve power (most want at min 3 days without solar generation)
4) Next Compare pricing between component & AIO but compare Apples to Apples, so Low Frequency AIO & Component & High Frequency AIO & Component.
5) IMPORTANT: How much do you want to interact with the components, because management & control capabilities also come "at a price" and the higher grade equipment the more of these functions & capabilities you get.
( !! ) Remember that if you want to replace a Homes Grid Power, consider that a standard Main Service Panel of 240V/100A will require a Split Phase 24,000W Inverter System.

Value Product (cheap) VS Tier-1 Top Quality.
You REALLY do get what you pay for ! Being fully off-grid & Depending / Relying on your system for "daily life" warrants a sensible & logical approach. Power Outtages are terribly inconvenient but when you are your own producer downtime & uptime is all ON YOU and that affects everyone in your circle. BTW: So are the Consequences of your choices & actions taken...

There are Savings can be had with proper consideration while key (critical) items have no room for compromise (such as Fuses & Breakers). Reliability & Depedenbality with Long Term Support is essential for the Critical Components like the Solar Charge Controller & Inverter. There are several with good standing & support, even in the "Value" Low Cost stuff BUT keep in mind the lower cost products will be less efficient , less features & functions as well as possibly other limitations.

Case in Point: Victron has 2 classes of Solar Controller, The SmartSolar & BlueSolar families, where SmartSolar is more features, functions & cost, while the BlueSolar have same capabilities but less goodies & less cost. Victron also just lowered prices as well... Browse here to see numerous options. https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/4E57EE91-363B-4B58-BE7A-D191070DFEDA

Lastly, a proper well thought out system with the correct components (those with a long production lifecycle) can be expanded over time for increased needs. If you have Gear that stops production & support, adding on later will be more difficult. Again, this is where companies like Victron shine as they ensure all of their gear remains compatible. This can STILL BE Done with Value (limited smarts) equipment but it is more complicated & potentially troublesome.

Case in Point, I use Midnite Solar Controllers which are some of the best out there but also $1100 +/- ea and they work flawlessly BUT their firmware is terribly dated & as such limited now + They do not easily integrate with the Inverters etc (not at all actually), while similarly capable Victron Solar Controllers with all the goodies are now 30% less than Midnite and they interconnect with a lot of gear (even non-victron). IF I was building today, it would be All Victron.

Hope it helps, Good Luck
 
1201 said:
Yes you would need two charge controllers and that will set you back about $1k.

6kw will not handle all that. You'll need at least two since you want to dry your clothes with electricity. I'm guessing there is something preventing you from putting up a clothesline and drying your clothes directly with sun and wind?

Now we are at 12kw. The price difference between aio and separates is growing. And growing.
Click to expand...

No one being home during the day prevents a clothes line but I was raised using one and so was my wife. We have oop up thunderstorms here in the summer and with no one home should one POP UP I'd be picking up what clothes I could find in someone elses yard lol.
There are a few 150/60 amp controllers that are $100 and I would imagine they are as good as what's inside the AIO. Cheap is cheap manufacturing is cheap manufacturing be it in pieces or whole so I don't see a reason to buy two $500 controllers if the cheap ones in AIO are good enough for the job.
 
To give an idea of peak usage, my peak usage is 11kw (measured on a 30 second interval). Almost never go above 5kw though (that's the AC).

electric dryer
electric oven
~2.5-3 ton AC
~300W of server load (small rack)
other general loads

In the winter my average is ~1kw, summer is ~2-2.5kw
 
prometheanfire said:
To give an idea of peak usage, my peak usage is 11kw (measured on a 30 second interval). Almost never go above 5kw though (that's the AC).

electric dryer
electric oven
~2.5-3 ton AC
~300W of server load (small rack)
other general loads

In the winter my average is ~1kw, summer is ~2-2.5kw
Click to expand...

It's my 240v appliances gobbling up the watts.
Since my dryer is no more than twice a week two weeks out of the month and once a week twice a month (6) loads a month I am considering just slapping a 5/6000 watt spit phase at it and be done with it. I can just cut it off when not in use. My well runs maybe and hour per day (800w) so I'm thinking of doing the same with it and just leave the inverter on. 24v 4000 watt split phase will be over kill but I like that. A couple 300w panels and a charge controller and that's out of my hair.
I'm thinking of going all dc or hybrid on water heating as a dc element and a couple panels will heat it before I need it again and a 2,000 watt dc or ac element will heat it within an hour for my wife to shower in the mornings so that would be out my hair. A 240v load gone and hello 120vmy ac only pulls 950w with the compressor running. Convention gas heat and a gas cook top.
In 24 hrs my refrigeration shed uses 2,310 watts. All running together is under 300w. Thinking about putting it on a mini system as well and let it do it's thing.
 
Ronifer said:
In an off-grid set up what are pros and cons of each? Got 9.15kw of panels coming so time to gather the rest. ?
Click to expand...

The AIO is superior in everyday. Ease of install, space etc.

However, the quality of AIO's is not when compared to some of the nicer inverter/chargers on the market, especially when it comes to idle draw.

Oh, and do 48 volt. You save substantial money there too.

My example. This battery and Multiplus
20231029_120143.jpg

Replaced all these components
20231029_120136.jpg

An AIO would also get rid of the MPPT (not shown) as well.

Lots of money and time saved with the AIO in the form of fused, wiring etc as well as higher voltage saving on wore gauge, BMS costs, parralelling etc.
 
Last edited:
I currently run an MPP 3048LV-MK, and works great but limited to 150v solar input, and am planning out a a second system with components consideration . Don't you lose the efficiency with a component setup because there is a conversion loss from PV>Battery>AC? Additoinally, with AIOs, there are inverter modes such as SBU, and charge modes like CSO, but are there similar configurable settings using components?
 
Last edited:
Hanzo86 said:
. Don't you lose the efficiency with a component setup because there is a conversion loss from PV>Battery>AC?
Click to expand...
In a component system the pv goes to the battery terminals via the charge controller. The inverter can take the power off the terminals before it gets into the battery.

AIO may have access to the high voltage bus of the mppt. That saves the down conversion to battery voltage, and back up to 240v for ac production.
 
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