House burned down

[Nobodybusiness]

I don't know, but my sense is that it's not an issue of DIY. The DIY part is crucial in terms of... is there a vendor that sold a product that can be blamed, but once it's clear there's no 'product' then.....

Once it's not Fraud or Arson then....

it appears to be 'is there liability' on State Farm's part to help neighbors. If the home owner did anything negligent, then yes. BUT, negligence has a large range that has nothing to do with DIY. I believe in my case - the improper (although common) storage of propane tanks next to an outside wall could be an example of enough negligence that it activates the liability portion of my insurance.

But I'm speculating and would love to hear from someone who actually know how the insurance process works.

I’m just worried that since they are tightening the NEC to keep DIY out that the insurance companies will follow suit and stop insuring DIY projects.

That will drop a hammer on things..

 

[SparkyJJO]

So uh where are you supposed to store propane tanks?
<eyes the 20lb tank in the garage>

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

So uh where are you supposed to store propane tanks?
<eyes the 20lb tank in the garage>

Ah...

#1 - Must NOT be near anything flammable!!!! (like 15ft away). A home or shed wall is potentially flammable - as I found out.
1b) The nozzle (venting) should be pointed away from flammable things such as a wall. My nozzles were random - some pointing to the wall of the shed

#2 - It's recommended to physically restrain the tanks so they can't become rockets - I got lucky in this regard. A county worker told me they chain their tanks to poles in the ground per country code.

I asked about RV propane tanks - obviously next to a flammable RV - and he commented that they're designed so they vent away from the RV - e.g. propane holders on the tongue of an RV are presumably designed to encourage venting away from the RV.

All interesting stuff!

When I rebuild, I have a spot in the yard at the base of a stone retaining wall that is 15ft away from everything flammable. Going to look at RV tank holders (for restraint) and bolt them into the stone retaining wall. The issue here is keeping sun off to keep <120F on 115F summer days.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Huh. What about people who have propane grills in tiny city lots where you really don't have a 15 foot radius of nothingness? As it is, I have a typical suburb lot and having a 15 foot radius from my 20 pounders is going to be difficult due to house, trees, shrubs, etc.

I suppose if I put them literally in the center of my back yard they'd be far enough away from anything (grass notwithstanding). Talk about an eyesore though.

Reddit claims sticking them in the garage is perfectly fine

 

[kendive]

Huh. What about people who have propane grills in tiny city lots where you really don't have a 15 foot radius of nothingness? As it is, I have a typical suburb lot and having a 15 foot radius from my 20 pounders is going to be difficult due to house, trees, shrubs, etc.

I suppose if I put them literally in the center of my back yard they'd be far enough away from anything (grass notwithstanding). Talk about an eyesore though.

Reddit claims sticking them in the garage is perfectly fine

LOL Reddit claims. Reddit is still around. I don't think I would take any advice from that site. I have been on there maybe 3 times. LOL

 

[Brucey]

So uh where are you supposed to store propane tanks?
<eyes the 20lb tank in the garage>

Well he had ten individual 100lb tanks back there. May step him up into a different category of storage requirements.

 

[Brucey]

Ah...

#1 - Must NOT be near anything flammable!!!! (like 15ft away). A home or shed wall is potentially flammable - as I found out.
1b) The nozzle (venting) should be pointed away from flammable things such as a wall. My nozzles were random - some pointing to the wall of the shed

#2 - It's recommended to physically restrain the tanks so they can't become rockets - I got lucky in this regard. A county worker told me they chain their tanks to poles in the ground per country code.

I asked about RV propane tanks - obviously next to a flammable RV - and he commented that they're designed so they vent away from the RV - e.g. propane holders on the tongue of an RV are presumably designed to encourage venting away from the RV.

All interesting stuff!

When I rebuild, I have a spot in the yard at the base of a stone retaining wall that is 15ft away from everything flammable. Going to look at RV tank holders (for restraint) and bolt them into the stone retaining wall. The issue here is keeping sun off to keep <120F on 115F summer days.
View attachment 215162

Maybe an opportunity to shade them with a couple of panels.

 

[ricardocello]

<eyes the 20lb tank in the garage>

A full 20 lb propane tank holds the equivalent of 20 lbs * 6.37 kWh/lb = 127.4 kWh of energy.
Even if you get blue rhino, 15 lbs * 6.37 kWh/lb = 95.6 kWh
Edit: corrected numbers

Compare that to your measly battery storage (well, at least my measly 15.2 kWh battery storage).
And there is no Class T fuse for propane….

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Well he had ten individual 100lb tanks back there. May step him up into a different category of storage requirements.

View attachment 215180

10 x 100lb = 200gal - enough to heat my house ~8weeks using 30,000BTU Mr Heaters. The plan was to supplement the 4 months of winter and low PV to keep the house at least 60F / livable.

In my jurisdiction, you must register with the fire department at 500gal or more. So 200gal is on the smaller side based on that metric.

And yes, the panels keep the sun off, was great place to store them in terms of keeping them <120F in summer, but of course next to the shed was a huge mistake! Also, with my new view of things, panels / MC4s do have a potential to arc/short so storing propane under panels would no longer be my recommendation.

 

[robbob2112]

10 x 100lb = 200gal - enough to heat my house ~8weeks using 30,000BTU Mr Heaters. The plan was to supplement the 4 months of winter and low PV to keep the house at least 60F / livable.

In my jurisdiction, you must register with the fire department at 500gal or more. So 200gal is on the smaller side based on that metric.

And yes, the panels keep the sun off, was great place to store them in terms of keeping them <120F in summer, but of course next to the shed was a huge mistake! Also, with my new view of things, panels / MC4s do have a potential to arc/short so storing propane under panels would no longer be my recommendation.

Don't people there use propane tanks - the 500g or 1000g? They are common around here and I grew up in Texas with one.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Don't people there use propane tanks - the 500g or 1000g? They are common around here and I grew up in Texas with one.

Not common in suburbia - natural gas common instead. I presume it's also because of required setbacks - need a good size yard (which I have but many don't) and in my case, would need 150-200ft refueling hose to get to my back yard.

The 100lb tanks are about the largest that are easily manageable by 1 person to take out to get refilled.

 

[SparkyJJO]

10 x 100lb = 200gal - enough to heat my house ~8weeks using 30,000BTU Mr Heaters. The plan was to supplement the 4 months of winter and low PV to keep the house at least 60F / livable.

In my jurisdiction, you must register with the fire department at 500gal or more. So 200gal is on the smaller side based on that metric.

And yes, the panels keep the sun off, was great place to store them in terms of keeping them <120F in summer, but of course next to the shed was a huge mistake! Also, with my new view of things, panels / MC4s do have a potential to arc/short so storing propane under panels would no longer be my recommendation.

Outdoor in open air there should never be enough concentration of propane to ignite if something arced. Put a metal roof material between the panels and the tanks to create a simple barrier.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Outdoor in open air there should never be enough concentration of propane to ignite if something arced. Put a metal roof material between the panels and the tanks to create a simple barrier.

I'm sure I'm overthinking. For example, I'm thinking that arcing PV wire in conjunction with hot / venting tank could conceivably ignite the venting gas and then cascade to other tanks.