svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
You might be interested in this: http://www.diysolarforum.com/index....tions-for-an-induction-cook-top.351/post-2675
Induction Cooktop issue on inverter
- Thread starter Cbruson
- Start date
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that my 2000w inverter may be too small to power an 1800w induction cooktop due to inefficiencies and voltage drops.
First of all, at the "highest 94%" output efficiency per CNBOU's specifications, it would be supplying 1880w - barely over the 1800w rated power of the cooktop. It is weird, though, because I only used up to 60% of the maximum 1800w when using the cooktop before it failed.
Also, the user manual states the inverter supplies "100v or 110v or 120v AC +5%" as shown in the attached picture. Does this mean at a 12v DC input, it is only putting out 100v AC? Can continuous low voltage like that fry a 120v appliance?
Measuring the actual output voltage is on my to-do list.
I wonder if sizing up to a 2500w inverter with a rated output of 120v (with a 12v input) is the solution I need.
P.S. - I plugged in the broken cooktop on utility/shore power, and got nothing. It beeps and makes small electrical humming noises, just like in my van. I need to decide whether I should replace this same cooktop under warranty or just get a refund at this point.
Thanks again for all your responses.
First of all, at the "highest 94%" output efficiency per CNBOU's specifications, it would be supplying 1880w - barely over the 1800w rated power of the cooktop. It is weird, though, because I only used up to 60% of the maximum 1800w when using the cooktop before it failed.
Also, the user manual states the inverter supplies "100v or 110v or 120v AC +5%" as shown in the attached picture. Does this mean at a 12v DC input, it is only putting out 100v AC? Can continuous low voltage like that fry a 120v appliance?
Measuring the actual output voltage is on my to-do list.
I wonder if sizing up to a 2500w inverter with a rated output of 120v (with a 12v input) is the solution I need.
P.S. - I plugged in the broken cooktop on utility/shore power, and got nothing. It beeps and makes small electrical humming noises, just like in my van. I need to decide whether I should replace this same cooktop under warranty or just get a refund at this point.
Thanks again for all your responses.
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Rider
Solar Addict
Well, that adds a new spin on things.... the way I read that chart, it's 100VAC@12VDC, 110VAC@24VDC, and 120VAC@48VDC.
If you're running 12VDC, you are seriously under-volting your devices. Have you put a voltmeter on the inverter output to see exactly what it is (unloaded, nothing plugged in)?
But yes, that was my first suggestion to you, use an inverter with a higher wattage output.
If you're running 12VDC, you are seriously under-volting your devices. Have you put a voltmeter on the inverter output to see exactly what it is (unloaded, nothing plugged in)?
But yes, that was my first suggestion to you, use an inverter with a higher wattage output.
So looks like that was a false alarm. I just measured voltage at the inverter output and it reads 122v AC. I'm not sure what the specs are talking about.
I'm also not sure why the cooktop would break when being used at 60% and below, but I do agree I would need a larger inverter to successfully run it if it ever did pull 1800 watts.
I'm also not sure why the cooktop would break when being used at 60% and below, but I do agree I would need a larger inverter to successfully run it if it ever did pull 1800 watts.
Rider
Solar Addict
I stand corrected. TY. But it seems his output is set correctly anyway.
mberding
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2019
- Messages
- 73
I do!
I'm using the "Duxtop 9100MC 1800W Portable Induction Cooktop Countertop Burner" with my 3.6kw Outback inverter. In fact, I can use two of these at the same time. It's always worked wonderfully.
Unfortunately, I am running a 3.6kw inverter based on a 48-volt battery bank, so it's a whole lot beefier than the 2kw inverter you're running.
Just wanted to say that yes, it is possible, to run an induction cooktop on an inverter.
Rider
Solar Addict
I, for one, appreciate that. Things can be debated without totally negating someone.
But it was easy for me to say I was incorrect. I didn't RTFM.
"Once, I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken."
I can find zero reviews of any CNBOU inverters... there is one YouTube video using one... not the same one you have though.
It appears to be a power jack clone style inverter, and if so, figure the inverter is good for 1/3 its rated output.
odd though, since most cheapo inverters like that are far cheaper than this one. Based on this, I would think the inverter isn’t capable of feeding quality current to your high demand appliance.
I think, if I wanted to power a induction cooktop I would find a well reviewed inverter and size it for at least double the demand of the appliance...
It appears to be a power jack clone style inverter, and if so, figure the inverter is good for 1/3 its rated output.
odd though, since most cheapo inverters like that are far cheaper than this one. Based on this, I would think the inverter isn’t capable of feeding quality current to your high demand appliance.
I think, if I wanted to power a induction cooktop I would find a well reviewed inverter and size it for at least double the demand of the appliance...
1800 watts is quite large. Since it is a two burner model, that’s likely 900 watts each burner. Are you running both burners simultaneously? 14 wire shouldn’t exceed 1500 watts at 120v. Can you describe this extension cord you are using?
in the restaurant repair jobs, the biggest problem I run across is when they use an extension cord.
since you built it, check the wiring on it critically.
Check the rating on the plug end, and the socket end. I would use 20 amp rated ends. And commercial quality sockets.
don’t forget, each connection you make induces a loss.
So, you have
1. The inverter socket,
2. The extension cord plug,
3. The extension cord receptacle,
4. The appliance cord plug.
every connection could have some wear, or loss resulting in the issue. Directly connecting the appliance may remove the problem.
Another solution might be to wire your extension cord into a direct connection junction block in the inverter.
Some high wattage inverters only output 700 watts or so on the receptacle built in, and for larger demand loads, you have to directly connect the wiring.
Rider
Solar Addict
I had made two recommendations; upgrade the inverter, and, even if it's just for a test, replace the wire to the cooktop bypassing the 14 gauge. 14 gauge under surge load could def be a trouble point.
Wow, thanks for all of the input everyone. I've learned a lot. Mainly that my thoughts of a 2000w inverter being able to power anything below that wattage are definitely incorrect.
I've got a lot of thinking to do about how to fill this large rectangular hole in my butcher block now ?
I've got a lot of thinking to do about how to fill this large rectangular hole in my butcher block now ?
gnubie
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2019
- Messages
- 3,844
Yes but it's usually unregulated battery voltage
As an easy fix, what do you all think of using this electric cooktop instead of induction?
I understand the differences/benefits of electric versus induction cooktops, but I am specifically asking if it would actually work in my setup. An 1800w induction cooktop won't work, and lower-wattage induction cooktops are single-burner, countertop units that don't fit my countertop cutout.
My thinking: I would rather use my existing, oversized electrical system than build an entire propane system since space is a premium in the van. I don't use propane for anything else.
This electric cooktop is nearly the same dimensions as the induction cooktop cutout in my countertop. It has 1500w and 1200w burners. I would only ever use 1 burner at a time, until I can afford to get a larger, better 3000w inverter that could potentially handle both at the same time. This cooktop runs off 110V to account for any possible voltage drop over the wire length.
As I understand it, an electric cooktop cycles on/off to maintain the set power level. So it uses the full wattage of the burner when "on", not a percentage. Since this electric cooktop has a maximum wattage of 1500w on the large burner, that should work with my 2000w inverter, even with the inefficiencies we've discussed. As a testament to my CNBOU inverter, it does successfully power a 1440w hot water heater without any problems, and it is definitely pure sine wave (I've seen the oscilloscope reading).
Are my thoughts on this correct? I don't want to make the same mistake again and break another cooktop!
(P.S. - As a secondary option, there's this similar, lower-powered electric cooktop [115v, 2x 1200w burners] https://www.amazon.com/Summit-CR2110-Electric-Cooktop-Burners/dp/B005IHNG5G?ref_=ast_bbp_dp)
Amazon.com: 110V, Ramblewood 2 Burner Electric Cooktop, EC2-27.: Appliances
Buy 110V, Ramblewood 2 Burner Electric Cooktop, EC2-27.: Cooktops - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
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I understand the differences/benefits of electric versus induction cooktops, but I am specifically asking if it would actually work in my setup. An 1800w induction cooktop won't work, and lower-wattage induction cooktops are single-burner, countertop units that don't fit my countertop cutout.
My thinking: I would rather use my existing, oversized electrical system than build an entire propane system since space is a premium in the van. I don't use propane for anything else.
This electric cooktop is nearly the same dimensions as the induction cooktop cutout in my countertop. It has 1500w and 1200w burners. I would only ever use 1 burner at a time, until I can afford to get a larger, better 3000w inverter that could potentially handle both at the same time. This cooktop runs off 110V to account for any possible voltage drop over the wire length.
As I understand it, an electric cooktop cycles on/off to maintain the set power level. So it uses the full wattage of the burner when "on", not a percentage. Since this electric cooktop has a maximum wattage of 1500w on the large burner, that should work with my 2000w inverter, even with the inefficiencies we've discussed. As a testament to my CNBOU inverter, it does successfully power a 1440w hot water heater without any problems, and it is definitely pure sine wave (I've seen the oscilloscope reading).
Are my thoughts on this correct? I don't want to make the same mistake again and break another cooktop!
(P.S. - As a secondary option, there's this similar, lower-powered electric cooktop [115v, 2x 1200w burners] https://www.amazon.com/Summit-CR2110-Electric-Cooktop-Burners/dp/B005IHNG5G?ref_=ast_bbp_dp)
Rider
Solar Addict
If it were me, before I spent anymore money chasing a problem you haven't figured out, I'd run a new wire from the inverter to the cooktop and eliminate the14 gauge, plugs and extensions.
And the propane stove isn't a bad idea. Wouldn't cost very much at all to have a gas company run a length of copper, and you can get tanks smaller than the traditional 20#. Even an alcohol stove. I used one on my boat for years, works terrific, costs nothing for fuel. And when it's nippy out, it can take the chill out of the air with no electric.
And the propane stove isn't a bad idea. Wouldn't cost very much at all to have a gas company run a length of copper, and you can get tanks smaller than the traditional 20#. Even an alcohol stove. I used one on my boat for years, works terrific, costs nothing for fuel. And when it's nippy out, it can take the chill out of the air with no electric.
I think that's a good idea, and the electric stove I linked is set up to be hardwired anyway. It doesn't come with a dinky 14awg cord like the induction cooktop that crapped out. I'd install a new 10awg cable that goes directly from the inverter to the stove.
My problem with propane is the space needed to safely install a propane locker that is vented to the exterior of the van. And currently my batteries are nearly always full because I'm not using them for cooking, which is what I initially sized them to be able to handle. What's the point of my large (for a van) solar/battery system if I only use up to 25% of it occasionally? I also charge the batteries via the alternator, so I really don't have a lack of power (just a small-ish inverter).
Rider
Solar Addict
I said that too, and agree.
I get my bottles filled at BJs. Inexpensive.
I have a 100# bottle for my cooktop only, use it constantly. After 2 years I figured I better have it topped up. It only took a few pounds, wasn't even worth calling them for the visit.
It can be done, as others have shown, but I wouldn't go that route.
Rider
Solar Addict
No need for sarcasm. Just pointing out there are other options.
You have several issues:
First: your 1800W cooktop may produce 1800W of heat but may use a lot more power from mains. Same with microwaves: an 800W microwave needs actually 1300-1500W when it's active.
Cooktops and microwaves do not use 400W when you set it to 400W. They always use the max power with intervals. How lower you set the wattage how longer the interval.
So your batteries and inverter have to deliver very high currents with short intervals. Lead acid batteries are not suitable for this.
Second: If 12V then your invertor may draw more than 100A from your batteries when you switch on the cooktop. You will get high losses from your cables between battery and inverter. The 12V batteries may drop under 12V and the inverter may internally only get 10V due to cable loss. It may switch on/off rapidly.
Third: Lead acid batteries have a large voltage drop when a heavy load start. They recover fast but the dip may be enough to interrupt your inverter and the output to the cooktop several times.
Really bad for your equipment!
Solution:
Shorter/ thicker cables between battery and inverter.
Keep your batteries fully charged and in good condition
Use 24V or higher equipment.
Replace the batteries with Liion Lifepo4. So much better!
Lead acid is actually waste of money. You are losing 30% of the charge every cycle. You put 100Ah in and you get only 70Ah back.
Their lifecycle is very low if you use such high loads.
First: your 1800W cooktop may produce 1800W of heat but may use a lot more power from mains. Same with microwaves: an 800W microwave needs actually 1300-1500W when it's active.
Cooktops and microwaves do not use 400W when you set it to 400W. They always use the max power with intervals. How lower you set the wattage how longer the interval.
So your batteries and inverter have to deliver very high currents with short intervals. Lead acid batteries are not suitable for this.
Second: If 12V then your invertor may draw more than 100A from your batteries when you switch on the cooktop. You will get high losses from your cables between battery and inverter. The 12V batteries may drop under 12V and the inverter may internally only get 10V due to cable loss. It may switch on/off rapidly.
Third: Lead acid batteries have a large voltage drop when a heavy load start. They recover fast but the dip may be enough to interrupt your inverter and the output to the cooktop several times.
Really bad for your equipment!
Solution:
Shorter/ thicker cables between battery and inverter.
Keep your batteries fully charged and in good condition
Use 24V or higher equipment.
Replace the batteries with Liion Lifepo4. So much better!
Lead acid is actually waste of money. You are losing 30% of the charge every cycle. You put 100Ah in and you get only 70Ah back.
Their lifecycle is very low if you use such high loads.
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