Is freeze built in protection worth $240 in a 200Ah 12V battery?

[steven1955]

Is freeze built in protection worth $240 in a 200Ah 12V battery? These batteries would be in a motorhome that spends time in Pennsylvania during the winter.

The non freeze protected LiTime 200Ah 12V battery is currently available on eBay here for $509.99.

The freeze protected PowerUrUs 200Ah 12V battery is available through one of this site's links here for $750.

These are the best prices I can find today.

The batteries are both recommended on this site. The only other differences I can find is that the PowerUrUs has a 200 A BMS, and is slightly longer.

Thoughts?

 

[Tomthumb62]

The thing is, if you've got a charge source connected to the battery, such as a solar system or charging from an alternator, how are you going to prevent the battery from being charged when it gets below 32F? That's what the freeze protection does.

If you're really on top of it, you could install switches on every charge source and turn them off manually when it gets to 32F ambient temperature. Now 32F ambient temperature might be colder than inside your RV, but how will you know for sure?

IF you don't do this (or don't have the low-temp charging cutoff protection aka 'freeze protection'), and one of your charge sources tries to charge your lithium battery, you will cause irreversible and permanent damage to your very expensive battery.

Since you live in a place with cold winters, I would not try to save a buck in your situation. Another scenario is say your RV has been sitting unoccupied (and unheated) for a while. Say you come in and turn on the heat and it starts to warm up. How long will you have to wait for the battery to warm up enough that it's safe to charge it? Without the internal sensor, you'd be guessing. It could be either an expensive guess or you have to wait a very long time (24 hours or more) for you to be sure it was up to temp first.

Weize is another brand that has low-temp cutoff that goes for about $600 for the 200Ah, but after my research, I have more faith in the PowerUrus brand. Will Prowse has reviewed both but the Roypow/PowerUrus came out with flying colors.

 

[TacomaJoe]

I'm the freeze protection for my batteries. During your winter time, will the battery be used of just sitting there waiting for warmer weather? If its just sitting in the cold all you need is a disconnect. My batteries have a low temp cut off but I don't rely on it. I have bluetooth and can see the temperature of the battery and can shut them down if I choose. Watching mine, their thermal mass keeps them in the safe zone during night time dips in temperature. I have a 100Ah that sits on the tongue that I bring in the house during the cold because it is a stupid battery and doesn't know how to save itself.

Keep in mind that freeze protection saves the battery when the temperature drops but if it keeps getting colder (say -10F) you need to take measures to warm them up. Freeze protection doesn't mean that they have heaters built in, just a cut off switch to stop current. Batteries with built in heaters need a charging source to keep them going.

 

[DarrylG]

For what it is worth, I have the 200ah Powerurus battery and it has preformed well for the last six months and has not shown any signs of degradation. The BMS has done well under the few times I gave it a heavy load of 140 amps. I have a few gripes with the app on IOS, but is actually better on Android.

 

[time2roll]

Do you winterize the RV to protect the water systems? Can procedures be added to winterize the batteries? Most likely a simple disconnect would serve just fine. Getting cold is not so much the issue as charging and discharging while cold. Or bring the batteries into a heated area as the procedure.

BTW what does the freeze protection provide? Simple BMS that isolates the battery or is this a self heated battery? If self heated, the battery may need a continuous power source.

 

[steven1955]

BTW what does the freeze protection provide? Simple BMS that isolates the battery or is this a self heated battery? If self heated, the battery may need a continuous power source.

The kind of freeze protection I am thinking of is where the battery isolates the cells when a temperature sensor measures too low.

 

[time2roll]

Can get the same protection by lifting a cable when the water system is prepped for the cold.
Could add heat to the low cost battery if it is to be in use during the cold and the battery compartment is not heated.
I tend to have poor luck when the primary search is based on price. Best of luck.

 

[Tomthumb62]

For what it is worth, I have the 200ah Powerurus battery and it has preformed well for the last six months and has not shown any signs of degradation. The BMS has done well under the few times I gave it a heavy load of 140 amps. I have a few gripes with the app on IOS, but is actually better on Android.

I’m considering this battery. What complaints do you have about the iOS app?

 

[DarrylG]

My complaints about the app are:
Poor documentation for this app. Albeit there is little to do with this app that needs documentation, but what is the Wifi button for? Or Management Mode which requires a verification number. Or Data query? Customer service had told me the Wifi button was to switch batteries if you had more than one. But that is odd to label it "Wifi"

There is one critical error in the app: The Total Amp is always displayed as a negative amount regardless to if the battery is charging or powering a load. This does not happen on the Android app. But typically this is not a big deal for me as I know myself what is happening.

The App support page takes you to a non existent website.

 

[JRH]

I'm the freeze protection for my batteries. During your winter time, will the battery be used of just sitting there waiting for warmer weather? If its just sitting in the cold all you need is a disconnect. My batteries have a low temp cut off but I don't rely on it. I have bluetooth and can see the temperature of the battery and can shut them down if I choose. Watching mine, their thermal mass keeps them in the safe zone during night time dips in temperature. I have a 100Ah that sits on the tongue that I bring in the house during the cold because it is a stupid battery and doesn't know how to save itself.

Keep in mind that freeze protection saves the battery when the temperature drops but if it keeps getting colder (say -10F) you need to take measures to warm them up. Freeze protection doesn't mean that they have heaters built in, just a cut off switch to stop current. Batteries with built in heaters need a charging source to keep them going.

If one can insulate the battery area good then it’s all easy and cheap to solve…

if one can’t easily insulate then I would buy good heated batteries And move on with life

Depending on your install, location and temps if one can insulate ,leave the inverter on and put a 25 or 30 watt incandescent light bulb in the batt area , position the batts about 3/4 inch off of the bottom or floor surface to allow air circulation Under them ,( I use 3/4 inch plywood strips) .. Add a small 12v or 120v fan ..( about 5 to 10 watts ).

Now find somthing you need to run anyway ( somewhere) and turn it on ….run it …off the batts

the more you power some device the more the batts will produce heat. If you don’t need anything running then idle load from the inverter + powering the light bulb and the fan off the batts will create collective warmth.
The fan will circulate the warm air around .
if your using Victron gear hook the inverter BT dongle with temp sensor in the area your monitoring to report to your phone app over the connect network ..not on the battery but in the central area of FREE AIR ……whatever the free air area temp IS , is a good reference to the battery temps…

now test the system with the BT sensor and verify with a lazar temp pointer and track internal temps compared to outside temp… test every scenario you might face ..

soon it will be clear what level of protection you have and how much power is needed to heat the batts . There will be a learning curve to nail down…it become easy to know what you will need after a short while.

the next day the sun will hit your panels and replace the few hundred watts you used overnight…
It just keeps everything warm and happy Day after day after day…

I have been trying and testing this out over the last 2 winters … works great at least down to zero F …all winter…below that point I may add a 25 watt light bulb for good back up and it is fine… way below zero…

as back up if somthing fails , your batts BMS ( mine anyway) will shut down the batts from charging .
You should be aware of what your system is doing in all cases…you are the ultimate back up device…

if insulated well it’s amazing how little power you will need…this is easy as hell to do….

It will be about 15 F here tonite…everything is in place and using about 45 watts.( I don’t use a light bulb anymore) as my inverter and SCC is inside the batt area.. it will stay 50 - 55 inside the batt compartment day and night..
the real key here is insulation… after that ,there has to be 10 ways to fabricate what you need.

good luck…J.