Old Battery Switches.. do they stay in a new build ?

[SnowSurfer]

Aloha
My 1st post on the forum.
Just bought an older sailboat, previous owner kept everything old school.
System does not hold charge and needs to be replaced.
I’ve built a successful 300w system on my truck and it’s never failed in 5yrs.
I was confident I could build a correct array to get my boat up to date and have electrical efficiency.
I’m for a loss … really need some guidance.
The current system has Two battery switches.
1-2 Both-Off
Lots of random wires all tied in to both of them.
I’m very confused as how to either incorporate them into the new system or completely get rid of them as I’m not sure if they’re even needed.
There’s currently 1 100w Renogy monocrystalline panel run into a Renogy PMW30CC charger. Both from 2012.
They are somehow wired into 4 Duracell 12v acids, each bank has 2 different sized batteries??
And the next puzzle for me is the system is tied into the alternator which I believe was his go to choice of charging.

I’m confused
Please any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[grizzzman]

Aloha
My 1st post on the forum.
Just bought an older sailboat, previous owner kept everything old school.
System does not hold charge and needs to be replaced.
I’ve built a successful 300w system on my truck and it’s never failed in 5yrs.
I was confident I could build a correct array to get my boat up to date and have electrical efficiency.
I’m for a loss … really need some guidance.
The current system has Two battery switches.
1-2 Both-Off
Lots of random wires all tied in to both of them.
I’m very confused as how to either incorporate them into the new system or completely get rid of them as I’m not sure if they’re even needed.
There’s currently 1 100w Renogy monocrystalline panel run into a Renogy PMW30CC charger. Both from 2012.
They are somehow wired into 4 Duracell 12v acids, each bank has 2 different sized batteries??
And the next puzzle for me is the system is tied into the alternator which I believe was his go to choice of charging.

I’m confused
Please any help would be greatly appreciated

My advice based in this pic is start over.

 

[hwy17]

What voltage is the system and are you gonna stay with that?

Alternator charging is going to have to be redesigned if you are switching from lead acid to Lifepo4.

Don't put 12v Lifepo4 batteries in series.

 

[Sparks-n-Splinters]

If there is one thing my decades of maintenance experience has taught me- I would much rather scrap everything and build my own dockside rather than try to troubleshoot an unfamiliar system while bouncing off wave tops at a time of failure.

 

[Rocketman]

If everything is the same chemistry(all lead acid), the 1-2–off-both switches are very nice and add a great level of redundancy.

You will need to trace all those wires… (regardless if you keep it or toss it) - so you know what and why they were there.

Good Luck

 

[mikefitz]

The current system has Two battery switches.
1-2 Both-Off

Looking at the picture I suggest starting from the beginning with a correctly fused and safe system.
The isolation switch was used to isolate either battery from the house wiring and engine starter/ alternator. Typically the switch would have ,'1', starter and '2' house, with 'both ' when running the engine and thus charging both battery packs in parallel. With engine off the switch would be set to '2' so power would be taken from house battery only. Its possible there may be a diode 'splitter ' in the charge path, and some interlock within the switch to disable charging if the switch disconnects with the engine running.
The second switch may be used to direct the solar charge to either battery.

A marine set up will differ from land mobile in many ways and I sugest you research suitable systems.
Fit quality parts, Bluesea for connection hardware, buss bars, breaker, and Victron chargers, inverters, and interfacing parts are highly recomended. Keep lead acid batteries for engine start and windlass power.

 

[SnowSurfer]

My advice based in this pic is start

 

[SparkyGage]

One more vote Start Over. That said, if you take it all apart and THOROUGHLY clean components you might keep some for spares. Some older components were better built than some of the modern ones (or at least had better quality control). I assume from your greeting that this is on the ocean? I would want to have a THOROUGH and INTIMATE (bordering on the obsessive) knowledge of any system that I am dependent on for safe return.

 

[featherlite]

I would much rather scrap everything and build my own dockside rather than try to troubleshoot an unfamiliar system while bouncing off wave tops at a time of failure.

Plus 10!

I would design and install a completely new system. Then, remove every stitch of wire and every switch and start over. Perhaps you would get lucky and could use some of the old wiring. Based on the photo, I would not be optimistic about salvaging anything.
The learning curve for me was, and still is, pretty steep. Consequently, it would take me take a good while to research and learn how to design and install a completely new system for a marine environment, but the rewards would be great.

 

[SnowSurfer]

Looking at the picture I suggest starting from the beginning with a correctly fused and safe system.
The isolation switch was used to isolate either battery from the house wiring and engine starter/ alternator. Typically the switch would have ,'1', starter and '2' house, with 'both ' when running the engine and thus charging both battery packs in parallel. With engine off the switch would be set to '2' so power would be taken from house battery only. Its possible there may be a diode 'splitter ' in the charge path, and some interlock within the switch to disable charging if the switch disconnects with the engine running.
The second switch may be used to direct the solar charge to either battery.

A marine set up will differ from land mobile in many ways and I sugest you research suitable systems.
Fit quality parts, Bluesea for connection hardware, buss bars, breaker, and Victron chargers, inverters, and interfacing parts are highly recomended. Keep lead acid batteries for engine start and windlass power.

Thank you for the insight Mike, I really appreciate it. And to those that have also leant me their time and knowledge. Much Aloha
So starting new will be done. But I do not have time for that right now. Marine Electricans are 4weeks booked….
I need to get the boat back to NY.
I’m not permanent on this build. what im focused on is effective input and output that will allow my electronics worry free operations. Auto pilot , bilges, plotter , vhf and phone charger.
Having built my overland array with zero worries I assumed I could easily built this set up. I’m still confident I could but I did not take into consideration the 2 battery switches and the amounts of back tracing throughout the boat. I can’t get into some of the spaces the shits route. “Tight…like tiger”…
My intention is to add in to the existing set up, again I just assumed it’s feasible for the short term.
I have as follows
5x100w Renogy panel : branch connecter
3x100ah Renogy AGM
Panels are each fused
Into
Victron MPPT 100|50
Victron BMVT-712
Victron cyrix ct 12-24-120 for the alternator
Renogy 3000w Invert
BlueSea 5025 block
Assorted fuses, properly gaged cables. Etc
And was going to use one of the existing batteries as isolated Starter.
I’m super bummed out , basically stuck here.
Simply replacing just the batteries would leave me in the exact situation. One 12yr old panel into a 12yr old PMW controller ran what looks like 14g wire.
I can do the work. I just lack the current knowledge
To make it happen.
I know I have what’s needed. I’m stopped at those two switches.
I’ll be cutting a wall out hopefully tomorrow if my saw shows up.. It’s the only way I can get to the wires.
Shoots. I know I can make something basic with the parts I have until I get around to a complete overhaul

 

[Rocketman]

Don’t get too discouraged- you just need to figure out those smaller wires…

You can probably just add all your new stuff to the house (cabin) side. And leave the starting side alone. But you do want to verify you understand everything on board.

 

[SnowSurfer]

Yes I for sure need identification for what I’m messing with.
I’m confident, I just need clarification and it’s tuff to decipher on my own.
Hypothetically…
If when I remove this wall, and trace down the Battery Wires into the current Charger and see where they lead to…I’m thinking they go to one of the two Battery Switches?¿ .. I plug in the Victron into her new cables n solar and almost leave it at that ??? Anyone , would that be ok to do? If he’s been running the boat for the past 12yrs “”trouble free “” I just plug in my new batteries to their replacement batteries. Then run to the new panels .. or would that just be too simple …

 

[SnowSurfer]

lol ️

 

[Sparks-n-Splinters]

If its been run trouble free for the last 12 years, what has happened that the system will no longer take a charge?
How does the prev owner define trouble free- Well maintained and looked after with no glaring issues arising, or a neglected free ride until it quit accepting a charge?

 

[wholybee]

Do you know what those 2 switches do operationally? One of them will probably select from battery 1,2, or both. But sometimes people do weird things, so that isn't a sure thing.

To connect your solar, you would connect it to the common terminal of the battery selector switch. In a clean install, that would be to a busbar, not directly to the switch. But directly to the switch is not wrong. What *IS* wrong is hacking a switch in half to make it fit, connecting wires to the terminals just be stripping them and not using a ring terminal, and the poor job of installations of the ring terminals that were used. Whatever you choose to do with the rest of the system, that switch needs to be replaced, and the wires re terminated.

I would not want to do anything, even a temporary solar install, without knowledge of how it is wired now. A weekend with a scratch pad following wires and drawing them out would be very worth it.

 

[TimE]

I would suggest you trace every wire and produce an "as installed" wiring diagram. This will help you understand what you have before you make any modifications or replacements