Half price electric cars

[Hedges]

CO2 levels have been 5x, 10x higher in ancient geological time.

CO2 levels and mass extinction events - John Englander - Sea Level Rise Expert

The chart below is adapted from a similar graph in Dr. Peter Ward’s book, “Under a Green Sky.” It simply plots all the mass extinction events of the last 500 million years against the best estimate of carbon dioxide levels (CO2) at the time. According to his analysis all major extinctions...

johnenglander.net

That reference talks about extinction events when CO2 was high.

If 2x increased CO2 levels hit a tipping point, run away heating, what is the tipping point that caused previous high CO2 levels to plunge to near unsustainable (for life) levels like more recent history?
Are there greater forces than mankind at play?

 

[Checkthisout]

Just another reminder.

If every passenger car/truck in the United States was fully electric or ran on a carbon-neutral source.

The United States C02 output would be reduced by 8%.

Again, to close the loop. That assumes all vehicle charging/fuel manufacture is 100% carbon neutral.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Are there greater forces than mankind at play?

Interesting question, but what geological effects have a measurable outcome delta in a 200+ year span.
It is clear that sequested Carbon has been released to the atmophere in a very short time (compared to geological processes) even with ice-core data we are limited to a tiny fraction of geological history data, and I wish we had a lot more. Do we need certainty to guide our decisions, or common sense.
It would be a poor scenario to continue playing with things that may destroy our ability to feed humanity, akin to a one-year-old paying with a hand-grenade, simply because we didn't know the outcome for certain.

 

[MTM98290]

The concern about CO2 concentrations is not about it being poisonous, at least not to humans, it is about tipping the delicate balance of atmospheric chemistry and it's interaction with heat trapping in the biosphere. Other periods of history with near 420ppm CO2 are very different from our current system.
Humans rely heavily upon agriculture to exist, agriculture relys on predictable seasonal weather; and anything that may destablize the predictable nature of weather is a bad thing for both.

Atmospheric chemistry is ever changing.

You make a great point about human reliance on agriculture. We require hydrocarbon fuel systems to even attempt to feed the humans alive today.

We will need to power the infrastructure of food production and distribution systems somehow.

Humans are reliant on nitrogen fertilizers to grow the quantities required to sustain the humans alive today.

Yet ntrogen fertilizers are being banned because they have some alleged effects on our climate.

We are either going to provide a replacement for this lost means of production or we will have to have a shortage of food.

Livestock are being culled at unbelieveable rates at this moment in the name of "stopping climate change". That won't feed hungry humans.

Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab want you to eat bugs and 3d printed meat.

The plan seems to not account for the needed food production to sustain humanity at current levels.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Atmospheric chemistry is ever changing.

Not at these rates, and all in one direction without balance.

You make a great point about human reliance on agriculture. We require hydrocarbon fuel systems to even attempt to feed the humans alive today.

We currently use Hydrocarbons extensively for agriculture, but this has not always been the case.
Many farming practices are rapidly changing right now, and decarbonization of this industry will continue.

We will need to power the infrastructure of food production and distribution systems somehow.

Very true, and decisions on how, will have consequences. Best to chose carefully.

 

[Tulex]

Problem is, nobody is bothering to put this all together. The world a few powerful people and their followers want us to live in doesn't come close to the world we dream of, that we've had for thousands of years. They don't even care that it doesn't work. It's either driven by evil, greed, or ignorance. Either way, it doesn't work in the long run.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab want you to eat bugs and 3d printed meat.

The irony is that stuff takes more energy to produce and is way less "green" than just raising and eating real beef cattle.

 

[billvon]

Atmospheric chemistry is ever changing.

Yep. And your body's biology is ever changing, and someday you'll die. Still, if someone changed it so quickly that you died tomorrow, I think you'd think that was not ideal.

You make a great point about human reliance on agriculture. We require hydrocarbon fuel systems to even attempt to feed the humans alive today.

And we once required horses, oxen and mules to feed all the humans living on the planet. Then we moved on - as we will again.

Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab want you to eat bugs and 3d printed meat.

You are watching too much FOX News. Get some real sources.

 

[wpns]

He is risen! On this day I claim climate change for the hoax it is. Mt. St. Helens spewed more pollution in the air in one eruption then all of mankind in all his time on earth. The earth has gone through cycles of heat and cool since it's creation. This is just another one. That being said I would have an ev for use in a hundred mile radius just to not have to pay the prices for fuel. Keep our lincoln mkz for longer trips.

Not that you trust the gummint, but 10 seconds on Google finds, for instance: https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
/*
Human activities emit 60 or more times the amount of carbon dioxide released by volcanoes each year. Large, violent eruptions may match the rate of human emissions for the few hours that they last, but they are too rare and fleeting to rival humanity’s annual emissions. In fact, several individual U.S. states emit more carbon dioxide in a year than all the volcanoes on the planet combined do.
*/
I mean, I get that we live in a post-truth society, but you gotta try harder...

 

[SparkyJJO]

You are watching too much FOX News. Get some real sources.

They're the ones who said it, not Fox.

 

[Doggydogworld]

You said "gas has gone up 12x in 40-50 year"
You have not provided any evidence to back up that statement.

It's actually 60 years. US average retail gas price was 30 cents/gallon in 1964, 12x that today (check EIA for latest data).

Average Gas Prices in the U.S. Through History [Updated]

Gas Prices Through History [Updated] We might deny it. We might diminish its importance. We might not like it. But the fact is that gas prices are intrinsically linked with the overall economy in the U.S. and have been for decades. Oil gluts and crises consistently correlate with economic...

www.titlemax.com

 

[Doggydogworld]

It's happening whether or not you or I like it.

View attachment 206004

Yep, share of total fleet lags new sales, by about a decade or so given the average age of the vehicle fleet is typically 10-12 years (it's more like 6 years in China).

Some countries are further along, some not so far. But the change is happening. Medium term projections may move back or forward a year or two but other than that the change so far is right in line with so many other technology changes.

Those 2024-26 BEV+PHEV projections of 20m, 30m and 48m are too optimistic. Actual this year should be ~17m, for about 20% growth. World #1 BYD forecast 20% this year, but missed last year's forecast badly and is actually running negative so far this year. #2 Tesla withdrew guidance and looks headed for sub-10% growth this year. Some smaller players will grow faster, but 20% overall may end up being optimistic. I'd look for 20-25% growth the next couple years as well. So maybe ~25m in 2026 vs. their 48m.

Their BEV forecast looks even worse. The BEV/PHEV split has been roughly 2:1 for years and shows no signs of changing soon. PHEVs actually outgrew BEVs a bit recently. So look for maybe ~18m BEVs in 2026 vs. their 45m forecast.

The end point is the same, it's just the timing that's off.

 

[MTM98290]

Yep. And your body's biology is ever changing, and someday you'll die. Still, if someone changed it so quickly that you died tomorrow, I think you'd think that was not ideal.

Correct I am stating that the prognosis is not really as bad as some want us to believe

And we once required horses, oxen and mules to feed all the humans living on the planet. Then we moved on - as we will again.

We moved on because of advancement through innovation and continuous improvement. Not because all of the oxen and mules were shot years before the new tractor was delivered.

You are watching too much FOX News. Get some real sources.

I don't watch TV news. Haven't had TV for almost 2 decades.

I do read though, maybe that is the issue. I guess I need to stop reading so I don't disagree to far outside the lines of the false left right paradigm.

I can read people in their own words and writing. I need no source other than the source which I seek at any moment. I don't require some false authority to spoon feed things to me.

Is the person who says something or writes something down considered a good source for insight in their intentions?

 

[robby]

Just another reminder.

If every passenger car/truck in the United States was fully electric or ran on a carbon-neutral source.

The United States C02 output would be reduced by 8%.

Again, to close the loop. That assumes all vehicle charging/fuel manufacture is 100% carbon neutral.

Another deceptive narrative by the oil companies.
We are not just Moving Passenger Cars and Trucks to electric.
The Push is on to Move everything including Buses. Trucks and even small items like Lawn Mowers, Chainsaws Leaf blowers and even Generators to Electric.
By time Phase 2 is implemented the only thing that will be running on Hydrocarbon based fuels is Aircraft and Ships.
When Phase 2 is implemented the last Major producer of Co2 will be replaced.

 

[wiseacre]

By time Phase 2 is implemented the only thing that will be running on Hydrocarbon based fuels is Aircraft and Ships.

Don't forget tanks, I doubt we'll see an Abrams M1A2 EV in our lifetime.

 

[MTM98290]

Another deceptive narrative by the oil companies.
We are not just Moving Passenger Cars and Trucks to electric.
The Push is on to Move everything including Buses. Trucks and even small items like Lawn Mowers, Chainsaws Leaf blowers and even Generators to Electric.
By time Phase 2 is implemented the only thing that will be running on Hydrocarbon based fuels is Aircraft and Ships.
When Phase 2 is implemented the last Major producer of Co2 will be replaced.

Only Aircraft and ships is still a whole lot of energy.

 

[robby]

Only Aircraft and ships is still a whole lot of energy.

Not really, it would be a manageable amount of Co2.
The plan as of now is that ships will probably be Hybrid in design. They are already testing them.
I don't know how planes will work out in the USA, but other countries are already investing heavily in Railways to get ahead of the domestic issue.
Gen Z has already been programmed to stay at home and stay on their phones, so that will cut down on international flights in the 2040s

 

[Johneb]

Not that you trust the gummint, but 10 seconds on Google finds, for instance: https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
/*
Human activities emit 60 or more times the amount of carbon dioxide released by volcanoes each year. Large, violent eruptions may match the rate of human emissions for the few hours that they last, but they are too rare and fleeting to rival humanity’s annual emissions. In fact, several individual U.S. states emit more carbon dioxide in a year than all the volcanoes on the planet combined do.
*/
I mean, I get that we live in a post-truth society, but you gotta try harder...

I trust the government as far as I can throw the buildings their housed in.

 

[Supervstech]

I trust the government as far as I can throw the buildings their housed in.

Their? They're there... grammar police engage.

 

[gotbeans]

You said "gas has gone up 12x in 40-50 year"
You have not provided any evidence to back up that statement.
I have provided quite a few reliable sources that contradict that statement.
All the data is readily available all you need to do is look.
Your statement is not defensible.

Yea I have, including 4 posts in this thread
like I said, show me your math on how 1999 = 40-50 years ago and I'll help you, big guy