Samsonite801
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2020
- Messages
- 2,993
Just wait til you start getting into quantum energy transfer (energy from the vacuum), that's when it starts getting way hard to wrap the brain around it all...
Why is solar so damn difficult?
- Thread starter 1201
- Start date
Just wait til you start getting into quantum energy transfer (energy from the vacuum), that's when it starts getting way hard to wrap the brain around it all...
SilverbackMP
Solar Addict
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2022
- Messages
- 978
I would argue against this. The Chinesium trend has seen new models being introduced and others products retiring about as often as some folks change underwear. The tier one folks engineer the living hell out of things and will sell the same products for a decade or more. And with some previous generation equipment working with a newer generation. It’s only a bullsh!t consumer electronic cycle if you play that game.
Good point. I have a Magna-sine before they changed to the new plant in Mexico and ruined it. Old design for some years (not sure how many) but dang, it was a hell of a good inverter. It may out live me. If I see any 24v/48v used come up for sell, I would pick it up. No app or blue tooth but its a work horse.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
What non-Chinese brands are there that are DIY-friendly and code compliant for US stationary install? Very few.
Schneider is interested in that market but not going in a direction that most folks on here will agree with.
Outback is owned by a battery company.
MidNite is not chasing that market as aggressively as the Chinese brands.
Victron doesn't care about that market.
I guess the answer is wait for UL9540 DC ESS batteries to come out, that have NRTL-reviewed operating parameters wide enough to encompass the Victron/MidNite/Outback/Schneider systems of your preference, and the problem solves itself.
sun walker
New Member
I'm in the same place, but only about several months in. Self build/ off grid etc. My original pv system was/is so simple, a few Sharp panels, a sealed lead acid, a pwm, some 10amp car fuses, & its never missed a beat. Perfect for led lighting, & a lap top.
Got some money to burn, pv's are sooo cheap, so I'll upgrade, join the modern world, some cooling ac, dump excess power to a water heater, (no more fire wet back in the summer), a small electric stove to supplement the gas & wood stove etc.
Then came the damn mppt's, what a nightmare, decent mppt's cost more than the 7.5kw pv's, & victron, parts made in China & India, assembled in India, (as far as I can tell), basically filled with some kind of epoxy, so kinda impossible to repair, I've watch video's of them catching on fire, along with almost every other cheaper brand, do not want these near my home. To confuse matters more so many fakes, Chinese brands faking Chinese brands. Epever big problem issue with lithium batts.
My favorite was Canada's https://electrodacus.com/ but my system is really too big, I'd need 9 DSSR50 (controllers), 1 for each 2 pv. Probably settle for 3 x 60w SNRE mppt, or sadly 2 victron's for the 5 year guarantee, from registered suppliers.
This is a good rant post.
If you can get to the end, with a simple no fuss basic powerful system, it will all be worth it. Huh?
Got some money to burn, pv's are sooo cheap, so I'll upgrade, join the modern world, some cooling ac, dump excess power to a water heater, (no more fire wet back in the summer), a small electric stove to supplement the gas & wood stove etc.
Then came the damn mppt's, what a nightmare, decent mppt's cost more than the 7.5kw pv's, & victron, parts made in China & India, assembled in India, (as far as I can tell), basically filled with some kind of epoxy, so kinda impossible to repair, I've watch video's of them catching on fire, along with almost every other cheaper brand, do not want these near my home. To confuse matters more so many fakes, Chinese brands faking Chinese brands. Epever big problem issue with lithium batts.
My favorite was Canada's https://electrodacus.com/ but my system is really too big, I'd need 9 DSSR50 (controllers), 1 for each 2 pv. Probably settle for 3 x 60w SNRE mppt, or sadly 2 victron's for the 5 year guarantee, from registered suppliers.
This is a good rant post.
If you can get to the end, with a simple no fuss basic powerful system, it will all be worth it. Huh?
You are comparing a task to an industry...
BELIEVE ME... "electrician" covers a LOT more than wiring a house...
SOLAR could never be "easy" understanding solar panel specs should be fairly easy...
Understanding wiring a main breaker panel should be fairly easy.
If you try to understand EVERYTHING about an industry... you are going to be quite inundated.
No race car engineer would say the task is easy...
It ain't the same as building an engine... it is understanding center of gravity, vehicle weight distribution, air pressure, fuel density management, altitude, tire composition, track conditions, clutch mechanism materials and disintegration management, track rule comprehension, speed aerodynamics, downforce, bolt loading and stretch, material fatigue and SOOOOOOOO MANY more factors I assure you, SOLAR comprehension for a residence would be child's play.
I have worked in HVAC for 40 years... I was trained by my grandfather who started in 1946, and my father who took over the company in 84... to say I have experience in HVAC is an understatement... I dont know 20% I'd guess of the ENTIRE field. I learn more every day.
I have always worked with electrical... my skills with it qualified me to add electrical licensing to the company. I have finally gained the full unlimited license after going through special electrical license requirements for hvac fields, bumping that to limited electrical then finally unlimited over the decades...
I could wire a house to code in my sleep... bit there are so many aspects to the code, KNOWING even RESIDENTIAL electrical is mind boggling difficult.
Afci, gfci, grounding, bonding, ocp, fuses, ampacity, derating, conduit, wire fill, wire types, box design, panelboards, I could go on and on about what I do know... but BELIEVE ME, it is ALL difficult outside the basics.
You can understand a part of any industry... you could easily comprehend the needs of say a solar generator, and the specs of charging and using that.
Bump that up to the solar needs of powering completely everything a modern home with a fully loaded 200A panel house? Yeah... there is indeed a lot to learn. And a lot of pitfalls that experience gets you understanding.
BELIEVE ME... "electrician" covers a LOT more than wiring a house...
SOLAR could never be "easy" understanding solar panel specs should be fairly easy...
Understanding wiring a main breaker panel should be fairly easy.
If you try to understand EVERYTHING about an industry... you are going to be quite inundated.
No race car engineer would say the task is easy...
It ain't the same as building an engine... it is understanding center of gravity, vehicle weight distribution, air pressure, fuel density management, altitude, tire composition, track conditions, clutch mechanism materials and disintegration management, track rule comprehension, speed aerodynamics, downforce, bolt loading and stretch, material fatigue and SOOOOOOOO MANY more factors I assure you, SOLAR comprehension for a residence would be child's play.
I have worked in HVAC for 40 years... I was trained by my grandfather who started in 1946, and my father who took over the company in 84... to say I have experience in HVAC is an understatement... I dont know 20% I'd guess of the ENTIRE field. I learn more every day.
I have always worked with electrical... my skills with it qualified me to add electrical licensing to the company. I have finally gained the full unlimited license after going through special electrical license requirements for hvac fields, bumping that to limited electrical then finally unlimited over the decades...
I could wire a house to code in my sleep... bit there are so many aspects to the code, KNOWING even RESIDENTIAL electrical is mind boggling difficult.
Afci, gfci, grounding, bonding, ocp, fuses, ampacity, derating, conduit, wire fill, wire types, box design, panelboards, I could go on and on about what I do know... but BELIEVE ME, it is ALL difficult outside the basics.
You can understand a part of any industry... you could easily comprehend the needs of say a solar generator, and the specs of charging and using that.
Bump that up to the solar needs of powering completely everything a modern home with a fully loaded 200A panel house? Yeah... there is indeed a lot to learn. And a lot of pitfalls that experience gets you understanding.
Scale is an important consideration.
I started small. After considerable study I ordered my batteries. Slow boat was the only option at the time so it gave me more time to study.
I read and reviewed other builds on this forum. There is a lot to look at and learn from.
My system is only a 3k 24 volt system which powers certain items on a separate wiring system than the grid.
I was fortunate because my vendor at the time had an engineer who was able to listen to what I was trying to do and provided a scematic.
As I went through each phase of the build I would bounce it off the members of this forum. The feedback was invaluable. Albeit it stung at times like the time I used the wrong size lugs but it was priceless!
What I love is the creative side of this process. This is not a one size fits all process. As you indicated there are a lot of options out there. I can see how that could be overwhelming but on the other side a part of me finds it exciting. An opportunity to learn.
My next project is going to be a portable power station. It will incorporate what I have learned and give me a chance to play with new components.
Don't get me wrong. I didn't whip things together the first time. I lost track of the number of times I took apart and reassembled my first battery until I got what I wanted and needed. If you look at the hardiboard on my build there are empty holes showing how components were moved around to allow for a better configuration. In my book that is OK. I'm not planning on posting this in a magazine. When all is said and done it works nicely for the stage it is in as a UPS and solar addition is in the plan for 2024.
Yes it is possible to build everything as once, but as you stated there is a lot. It can be done.
Starting small and adding on has value. Some start by powering a shed or garage. They then take this experience to move on to bigger builds.
I started small. After considerable study I ordered my batteries. Slow boat was the only option at the time so it gave me more time to study.
I read and reviewed other builds on this forum. There is a lot to look at and learn from.
My system is only a 3k 24 volt system which powers certain items on a separate wiring system than the grid.
I was fortunate because my vendor at the time had an engineer who was able to listen to what I was trying to do and provided a scematic.
As I went through each phase of the build I would bounce it off the members of this forum. The feedback was invaluable. Albeit it stung at times like the time I used the wrong size lugs but it was priceless!
What I love is the creative side of this process. This is not a one size fits all process. As you indicated there are a lot of options out there. I can see how that could be overwhelming but on the other side a part of me finds it exciting. An opportunity to learn.
My next project is going to be a portable power station. It will incorporate what I have learned and give me a chance to play with new components.
Don't get me wrong. I didn't whip things together the first time. I lost track of the number of times I took apart and reassembled my first battery until I got what I wanted and needed. If you look at the hardiboard on my build there are empty holes showing how components were moved around to allow for a better configuration. In my book that is OK. I'm not planning on posting this in a magazine. When all is said and done it works nicely for the stage it is in as a UPS and solar addition is in the plan for 2024.
Yes it is possible to build everything as once, but as you stated there is a lot. It can be done.
Starting small and adding on has value. Some start by powering a shed or garage. They then take this experience to move on to bigger builds.
My brain is not ready for that ?.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I bought one from here. Am happy with the performance ... unfortunately they had a price increase since I bought mine. https://www.treelinepowersystems.com/24V-LiFePO4-Batteries_c_26.html
OPTIMALSOLAR
New Member
True enough the solar sales world is bad. Really bad, but with all the information available, getting a good installation at a good price is doable. Common sense is required and enough work ethic to investigate. Panels to inverter to input. Not that much to it. I went from zero knowledge to installed in less than 6 months and have a high producing, good roi system, really 3 systems. Trouble free for a year. If I can do it, most can or at least hire those that can do the heavy lifting.
For many in many industries the goal is to make things seem more complicated than they are. See investment industry as a prime example. Else these industries don't exist. Do your research. Do as much of the work as comfortable doing. Know enough to hire the right people for those areas not comfortable, or qualified to do.
For many in many industries the goal is to make things seem more complicated than they are. See investment industry as a prime example. Else these industries don't exist. Do your research. Do as much of the work as comfortable doing. Know enough to hire the right people for those areas not comfortable, or qualified to do.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,259
My only concern for quality PV equipment is the interface/support equipment goes obsolete. The SMA inverters are good for decades running original firmware.
It is convenient to have Windows GUI HTML interface from the PV equipment (I use XP talking to Sunny Web Box for RS-485, or Windows 10 with Sunny Explorer for Ethernet.) But if those things break I want to be able to fall back on pushbuttons. Only some of my SMA equipment allows that (Sunny Island front panel, Sunny Boy Control for older inverters, but some newer inverters won't talk to it.)
Similar for instruments. I've got some Tek TDS-784D oscilloscopes (introduced 1995). There are guys who repair and calibrate them. The support software requires Windows 3. The scope itself contains proprietary CPU, firmware and software, has optional hard drive with various data processing algorithms.
Digital Phosphor Oscilloscope
Features & Benefits 1 GHz Bandwidth Sample Rate to 4 GS/s 200,000 Maximum Waveform Capture Rate 4 Channels 1% Vertical Accuracy
www.tek.com
TDS784 - TekWiki
SMA equipment is good. The manuals tell you all you need to know to use them. You do need to be granted Installer permissions for some things - changing UL-1741 parameters so no longer compliant (OK), changing from on-grid to offgrid or enabling Rule-21 (ought not be locked.)
No DC charge controllers from them (MSTE still makes one SMA used to rebrand). Midnight Classic would be a good choice.
HalfBaked
Ever the student
It took me 5 months of ignorance to go from zero comprehension to having a rack of balanced batteries.
Without the tireless brains on this forum, I'd probably still be trying to save my old agms and getting up at 3am to crank the generator.
Without the tireless brains on this forum, I'd probably still be trying to save my old agms and getting up at 3am to crank the generator.
One of the books I read for residential electricity was like a cliffs notes and it was very helpful.(DeWalt electrical code reference guide). Knowing all of it would be difficult but in building my house I would say electrical was one of the easier jobs. The only challenging part was a couple of 3 and 4 way switches .
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,259
Easy enough to follow if drawn out.
en.wikipedia.org
For those of us who played with TTL and Boolean logic, works like an XOR gate.
en.wikipedia.org
Multiway switching - Wikipedia
For those of us who played with TTL and Boolean logic, works like an XOR gate.
XOR gate - Wikipedia
Yeah the problem was I didn't do a great job labelling the wires and when I got to it I didn't remember which box was connected to the main panel. So it was just a matter of tracing them but it all worked.Easy enough to follow if drawn out.
Multiway switching - Wikipedia
For those of us who played with TTL and Boolean logic, works like an XOR gate.
XOR gate - Wikipedia
When I build the mother in law pod I'm just going to use wireless three way (lutron casetta) and make it easy on myself ?
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,259
Subject to EMI; is it compatible with switching noise from inverters?
Wires and switches are more reliable. But he savings in copper alone may pay for the electronics.
I did put in an automatic bathroom fan (humidistat) which can be manually turned on by flipping the switch off and on. Still working so far, after a couple years.
Wires and switches are more reliable. But he savings in copper alone may pay for the electronics.
I did put in an automatic bathroom fan (humidistat) which can be manually turned on by flipping the switch off and on. Still working so far, after a couple years.
You think I'm going to go through this solar thing again for a mother in law house? ???
Oh hell naw!!!
I've found the lutron casetta stuff to be very reliable.(although not looking forward to the day I need to replace the batteries in all the remotes)
