MTM98290
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The problem is that so often the discussion is; take all of your rights vs take some of your rights.
The Hegelian Dialectic often works well to drive societal destruction.
Half price electric cars
- Thread starter Tulex
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The Hegelian Dialectic often works well to drive societal destruction.
MTM98290
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I was invoking "Our Democracy" in a mocking way. It is a great way to spot people who should not be taken seriously. It is a phrase used to fool the useful idiots. The Us is a Constitutional Republic and not a mob rule democracy. 'Our Democracy' is akin to other ridiculous phrases, such as 'for the children' or 'safe and effective'
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MTM98290
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We have been dismantling our representation for a very very long time. What is often sold as progress is just weakening of our representation.
This has happened under Every single administration, some more than others but all have moved the needle the wrong way.
There is no left and right, only liberty and tyranny. - George S. Patton.
MTM98290
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That is an awfully simplistic statement. Often one person's liberty is the next person's tyranny. Who gets to choose?
Patton was the tyrant to Hitler's liberty.
As it relates to vehicles... one person's liberty to pollute is another person's tyranny to bear the cost of that pollution.
Tulex
Solar Wizard
Burning is a biblical thing. Jesus burned wood and oil, heck, before him was the whole burning bush thing.
I think I know where I'll draw the line.
Climate change wokeness is like being a scientologist. A new religion with no basis.
I think I know where I'll draw the line.
Climate change wokeness is like being a scientologist. A new religion with no basis.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Whether we call it climate change wokeness or something else, there is a benefit in the air quality. I grew up and went to college in the Los Angeles basin. I was a water polo player and swimmer and we had practice in the mornings and afternoons. You could feel the effects of the smog on your lungs and they would hurt for hours if you took a deep breath. The quality of air throughout California has improved as a result of legistlation passed over fifty years ago. Back then, there was no economic benefit to buying a vehicle with the extra equipment to reduce smog. At least today, thanks to technology, I can reduce my electrical bill and the cost of driving an automobile. I am thankful for that choice.
Tulex
Solar Wizard
There's a real difference between what is being said today and what it was like back then.
Smog is like someone smoking in your car, today's climate hysteria is like someone smoking on the other side of the world.
Today's approach toward climate is like treating Covid like it's the Bubonic Plague. Oh wait, we did that......
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MTM98290
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Your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Which is also simple.
The vehicles currently on the road are amazingly clean and getting cleaner. It is reasonable to assume that one should have the liberty to travel freely. Liberty is not simple freedom but freedom that comes with responsibility. That responsibility means that we don't impose on other people to the best of ones ability.
Suppose a neighbor doesn't like the smell of your BBQ or the color of your lawnmower gives them anxiety. Should we ban all things we each find offensive?
Humans doing all of the things which are made possible by the untethered automobile are of far greater benefit than they are a tyranny to ones fellow man.
Our lives would be much different without the mordern hydrocarbon fuel transportation system, and not in a good way.
With a person who values liberty I choose to advocate for what is the best option for me and my fellow homo sapiens. I will choose prosperity over overblown issues.
Resetting the technology of transportation infrastructre to a premature technology is not wise.
Murphyslaww
New Member
Well, one of the higher mileage F150 lightnings at 93k is showing only 3% battery degradation. Brakes degrade slower, tires, 20% faster. What we don't know, is what the life will be of the motors.
I guess if you don't take a shot at it, you won't know. All I know, is that I won't be paying for fuel in 4 or 5 years, and we got a rebate on the truck that won't be around forever. Inflation in gas prices doesn't matter to someone not even paying for electricity...
It's always a bit surprising when a tool is available to entirely remove the reliance on countries and governments changes and policies to get around, and still people resist. Guess they have actual (oil derricks, and refining plants) gas stations in their back yards.
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MTM98290
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This all would have likely happened naturally. New technology and innovations trickle down from the higher to the the lower models and competitors of all sorts would have driven innovation into other manufacturers vehicles to largely the same degree.
The SUV ia so prolific here because of the restrictions put on cars. So many who only needed a station wagon bought a Canyonero.
That was a setback to the state of the smog of LA. I would also guess that it wasn't just the cars cleaning up their act that cleared the smog of the LA valley.
Nobodybusiness
Collecting the leftovers of the Great Sky Reactor.
What does have to do with what I asked? Nothing.
Everyone including this forum owner Will Prowse who has had an F-150 EV said they were crap and sold them or gave them back to Ford.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Yes it was not just automobiles and trucks that were contributing. It was other sources as well. I had a boat that was berthed near an SCE power plant that was fueled by fuel oil. The heavy particulat matter that fell on the decks of the boats was so bad that SCE regularly reimbursed us for cleaning the decks. Later they converted to Natural Gas which did burn cleaner.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
My son in law loves his F150 Lightning and I still see them on the road so not "everyone" but no doubt there are some that hate them as is also true of Teslas, or any other EV. My ex-wife had a KIA which she Lemon Lawed because of a battery recall. I am her ex-husband for similar reasons but she did not replace me like she did her KIA.
MTM98290
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Particulate matter is nasty for sure and should be mitigated, in a great way. Natural gas is clean burning and abundant logical next step toward clean air. These are the kind of changes that we should seek, a viable alternative that functions and is suitable. One day we might have a battery the size of a shoebox powers a car for 1000 miles, but we do we have many options and suitable use cases for the EV today as you do.
The ability we have to acquire, modify, and create our surroundings to our liking is certainly a blessing. It is also something that makes us fundamentally human. We are wired to adapt, create, build and improve, when we have the ability to do that we accomplish great things.
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no qualms with the majority of your statement until here.
These EVs are all reliant and dependent on the OEM via their OTA/4g/5g/wifi requirements.
Thats my biggest hang up. Give me something that doesn’t need to be connected to the IOT
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I also value my privacy but am willing to compromise for the benefits I receive from connectivity. I do use a PO Box instead of a mailbox on my street, and I shred any paperwork that has my name or address on it. On the otherhand, my inverter data is stored on a server in China. Ironic.
Edmunds says the average EV sold cost in 2023 was $13,000 and change more than the average new non ev sold
GM, ford, and others seem to be convinced we all want massive vehicles. This is their misfortune because when CAFE requirements came, companies like Toyota and Honda built fuel efficient vehicles. The big 3 built bigger vehicles to be exempt.
People keep buying big vehicles so then they take technology worst suited for such mass and try to market it the same, for an average of 13 grand more.
When in reality, as exemplified by many posters here as well as the other stats, trends, and articles that people would prefer a simple EV closer to 30k in price.
If we get down to the brass tacks it shouldn’t cost 13k more to build the equivalent EV to petrol burner
GM, ford, and others seem to be convinced we all want massive vehicles. This is their misfortune because when CAFE requirements came, companies like Toyota and Honda built fuel efficient vehicles. The big 3 built bigger vehicles to be exempt.
People keep buying big vehicles so then they take technology worst suited for such mass and try to market it the same, for an average of 13 grand more.
When in reality, as exemplified by many posters here as well as the other stats, trends, and articles that people would prefer a simple EV closer to 30k in price.
If we get down to the brass tacks it shouldn’t cost 13k more to build the equivalent EV to petrol burner
It’s the update failures that seem to brick things that seem troubling
I like my diesel. But if I could buy an ev truck that could pull my 14,000lb fifth wheel. Give me the same driving distance, and could charge in the same amount of time as it takes to fill my tank on the diesel, I would buy one. Oh it couldn't cost more to buy one then my present truck. I don't see that happening any time soon. I will keep my diesel.
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