diy solar

diy solar

Battery charger that can charge as fast as solar

Craig said:
It has a constant current of 50 amps why cant it charge a battery? Even though I think the other is better. Just curious as to why the pointy heads say it wont work. Mine seems to work just fine.
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It doesn't claim to be constant current supply (that is a big deal, if this was CC the add would say so and they could charge more for it). Normal power supplies burp (turn the output off) if their current limit is exceeded and stay off until the load is disconnected. A battery charger power supply reduces the output voltage to maintain a constant current (that is why is is called a constant current supply).

If yours is working and it is not a constant current supply then your battery must not be pulling more than 50 A from it. Hook it up to a bigger, discharged battery and see what happens. A 50A CC supply will keep feeding the battery 50A until the battery is charged, a normal power supply will disconnect and refuse to charge the battery after a second or two.

Perhaps the seller doesn't know what they are selling. I doubt it though, CC power supplies cost more than normal power supplies.
 
CompMan2020 said:
Nope, it charges Lithium at 12V 26A. Also multifunction 12/24V. Look it up and see for yourself.
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Saw this first.

"Works with all types of 12-volt and 24-volt lead-Acid batteries, including wet, gel, and AGM, or any common automotive, deep-cycle, marine, or maintenance-free battery."

The further down saw this.

"An optimized charge mode for safely charging and maintaining 12-volt lithium-ion batteries, and recommended with use on lithium batteries with an internal bms."

Basically what that means is there is a mode that mostly works with Lithium if your battery will protect itself. That is like BattleBorn claiming to be a drop in Lead Acid battery replacement, as in you can use it to replace a Lead Acid battery. Yes you can do this, but it will last longer if you use a proper lithium charger and use smart loads that manage the low voltage disconnect properly.

This drop in replacement stuff is marketing fluff that started with AGM and Gel Batteries. They also claimed to be drop in replacements for flooded, lead acid batteries, but they last a lot longer in systems designed to cater to their individual characteristics. For occasional use, fine but I wouldn't trust my lithium batteries to that charger as part of a permanent install. Considering the cost of even a medium sized lithium battery pack, why on Earth would you be willing to? Save $100 on a charger and replace a $2000 battery pack years early? Seems like a very poor economy.

The Aims is the best looking unit so far to me. It looks like it is actually intended to be built into a system, not just for occasional use.
 
HaldorEE said:
It doesn't claim to be constant current supply (that is a big deal, if this was CC the add would say so and they could charge more for it). Normal power supplies burp (turn the output off) if their current limit is exceeded and stay off until the load is disconnected. A battery charger power supply reduces the output voltage to maintain a constant current (that is why is is called a constant current supply).

If yours is working and it is not a constant current supply then your battery must not be pulling more than 50 A from it. Hook it up to a bigger, discharged battery and see what happens. A 50A CC supply will keep feeding the battery 50A until the battery is charged, a normal power supply will disconnect and refuse to charge the battery after a second or two.

Perhaps the seller doesn't know what they are selling. I doubt it though, CC power supplies cost more than normal power supplies.
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Sorry it puts out full power without issues.
 
HaldorEE said:
Saw this first.

"Works with all types of 12-volt and 24-volt lead-Acid batteries, including wet, gel, and AGM, or any common automotive, deep-cycle, marine, or maintenance-free battery."

The further down saw this.

"An optimized charge mode for safely charging and maintaining 12-volt lithium-ion batteries, and recommended with use on lithium batteries with an internal bms."

Basically what that means is there is a mode that mostly works with Lithium if your battery will protect itself. That is like BattleBorn claiming to be a drop in Lead Acid battery replacement, as in you can use it to replace a Lead Acid battery. Yes you can do this, but it will last longer if you use a proper lithium charger and use smart loads that manage the low voltage disconnect properly.

This drop in replacement stuff is marketing fluff that started with AGM and Gel Batteries. They also claimed to be drop in replacements for flooded, lead acid batteries, but they last a lot longer in systems designed to cater to their individual characteristics. For occasional use, fine but I wouldn't trust my lithium batteries to that charger as part of a permanent install. Considering the cost of even a medium sized lithium battery pack, why on Earth would you be willing to? Save $100 on a charger and replace a $2000 battery pack years early? Seems like a very poor economy.

The Aims is the best looking unit so far to me. It looks like it is actually intended to be built into a system, not just for occasional use.
Click to expand...

I think that’s just something they need to say to cover their butts. It has a very conservative 14.2 absorption for lithium. There’s no way a charger like that can make sure the individual cells are well balanced before charging so a BMS recommendation is a fail safe for all parties involved.

I did see a video on YouTube where someone charged a LiFePO4 battery without a BMS using a NOCO on the lithium setting to test it out and it did disconnect the pack safely before over charging, but again the cells were balanced before charging.

But like the OP mentioned it’s just for rainy days to quick charge his battery bank and he would need it to charge at a higher amperage anyway so it’s a moot point.
 
ed6269 said:
Thank you but I still think that's not fast enough to get a depleted battery charged in a matter of hours, I think I need something that charges at a rate of 50 amps or better.
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Standard charging current for your battery is 45 amps.
So with 4 you could go as high as 180 amps.
You could have 2 batteries offline and still be within spec.
 
Ampster said:
It depends on your knowledge and understanding. A power supply can be a very good CC/CV Battery charger if you can control Amps and voltage to fit your battery requirements.
Click to expand...
A power supply comes in 3 flavors.

No current limiting, you overload it and it burns up.

Current limiting by turning off the output until the load is removed.

Constant voltage output up to max current, then constant current from then on. As you lower the load impedance the output voltage drops to maintain a constant current.

Only the last type of power supply makes for a good lithium battery charger.

Most switching power supplies follow the second model. They protect themselves against overload by turning off their output. This is how most off the shelf power supplies work.

If someone is setting out to design a power supply for powering LEDs or charging batteries then they design the power supply to work in the constant current mode.


Yes you can add a constant current regulator to the second type of power supply.. That is how you make the third type. These are fairly unusual since this property is only really useful for powering LEDs and charging batteries. It also requires extra circuitry that costs money which is why most power supplies don't do this.
 
HaldorEE said:
A power supply comes in 3 flavors.

No current limiting, you overload it and it burns up.

Current limiting by turning off the output until the load is removed.

Constant voltage output up to max current, then constant current from then on. As you lower the load impedance the output voltage drops to maintain a constant current.

Only the last type of power supply makes for a good lithium battery charger.

Most switching power supplies follow the second model. They protect themselves against overload by turning off their output. This is how most off the shelf power supplies work.

If someone is setting out to design a power supply for powering LEDs or charging batteries then they design the power supply to work in the constant current mode.


Yes you can add a constant current regulator to the second type of power supply.. That is how you make the third type. These are fairly unusual since this property is only really useful for powering LEDs and charging batteries. It also requires extra circuitry that costs money which is why most power supplies don't do this.
Click to expand...
Hello the Original post here and I was considering the Progressive Dynamics PD9145ALV and after reading your post I see that it is the current limited type that you don't recommend for an all around converter and I was wondering if you have a recommendation for a constant voltage output type converter so I don't have to worry about abusing my BMS in any way.
Thanks
 
Hello everyone again, Original Post here and I am thinking now that it might be easier and possibly cheaper to charge my batteries by disconnecting my solar panels from my system and plugging in a power supply that can give me the same VMP of 54.7 volt's that the solar panels put out and running that power thru the SCC to control all the variables that could damage my batteries. I trust my Outback flexmax 60 to take good care of them.
My question is is there a power supply that can be adjusted to the voltage amperage and watts to imitate or fool my SCC into thinking its sunny out.I don't know what do you guys think?
Thank you so much
 
ed6269 said:
Hello everyone again, Original Post here and I am thinking now that it might be easier and possibly cheaper to charge my batteries by disconnecting my solar panels from my system and plugging in a power supply that can give me the same VMP of 54.7 volt's that the solar panels put out and running that power thru the SCC to control all the variables that could damage my batteries. I trust my Outback flexmax 60 to take good care of them.
My question is is there a power supply that can be adjusted to the voltage amperage and watts to imitate or fool my SCC into thinking its sunny out.I don't know what do you guys think?
Thank you so much
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know what inverter are you using for AC?
 
ed6269 said:
My inverter is a Reliable 3000 watt cheap Chinese but I don't know what that has to do with this post?
Click to expand...

I like you SCC and was curious as to what your system consist of. Just to get a bigger picture that's all.

Back to your question...

I use this to fast charge my portable Lithium solar gens. It charges My EB240 (12V / 200AH) in around 5 hours. They have built in MPPT's so it should work the same for your SCC. You may want something a bit bigger. But this should point you in the right direction. Good Luck!
 
CompMan2020 said:
I like you SCC and was curious as to what your system consist of. Just to get a bigger picture that's all.

Back to your question...

I use this to fast charge my portable Lithium solar gens. It charges My EB240 (12V / 200AH) in around 5 hours. They have built in MPPT's so it should work the same for your SCC. You may want something a bit bigger. But this should point you in the right direction. Good Luck!
Click to expand...
Ooooo thanks so it says it's a 48 volt power supply , can I adjust it down to 12 volts and does it charge liFePO4 , can it stop charging at 14.2 volt's by its self?
 
ed6269 said:
Ooooo thanks so it says it's a 48 volt power supply , can I adjust it down to 12 volts and does it charge liFePO4 , can it stop charging at 14.2 volt's by its self?
Click to expand...

No, this would be for the PV side of your Charge controller. To sub for your Solar panels and use your gen to charge your batteries.

It puts out close to 500W (48V/10A) so in theory it will charge your 400AH bank in around 10 Hours. That's why I said you may want to search for something a bit bigger. Like 15-20A. My MPPT's don't like to see anything above 10A.

You can check the specs of your SCC to see what the max amps are but 48V is close enough to the 54.7V you referenced.

You can use this to charge your batteries but it will take just as long or longer than the NOCO you already have.
 
CompMan2020 said:
No, this would be for the PV side of your Charge controller. To sub for your Solar panels and use your gen to charge your batteries.

It puts out close to 500W (48V/10A) so in theory it will charge your 400AH bank in around 10 Hours. That's why I said you may want to search for something a bit bigger. Like 15-20A. My MPPT's don't like to see anything above 10A.

You can check the specs of your SCC to see what the max amps are but 48V is close enough to the 54.7V you referenced.

You can use this to charge your batteries but it will take just as long or longer than the NOCO you already have.
Click to expand...
Thank you thank you thank you , My SCC will charge up to 60 amps of current but I dont know how to find out how much current it can take in , the instructions that came with it just tell ya how to do a quick start. I will research on line and see if I can find max current input.
When you charge at 48 volts and ten amps in can you tell what kind of current or amps are gong into your batteries? Just curious , when my SCC is charging off solar with 610 watt panels putting out about 460 watts at 34 amps it dont take long to charge my depleated battery bank.
Again Thank you I like where this is going much cheaper than buying a high amp battery charger. By the way when I got my batterys new the were at a 50% charge and my NOCO charger took days to charge each one , Vary slow
 
ed6269 said:
Thank you thank you thank you , My SCC will charge up to 60 amps of current but I dont know how to find out how much current it can take in , the instructions that came with it just tell ya how to do a quick start. I will research on line and see if I can find max current input.
When you charge at 48 volts and ten amps in can you tell what kind of current or amps are gong into your batteries? Just curious , when my SCC is charging off solar with 610 watt panels putting out about 460 watts at 34 amps it dont take long to charge my depleated battery bank.
Again Thank you I like where this is going much cheaper than buying a high amp battery charger. By the way when I got my batterys new the were at a 50% charge and my NOCO charger took days to charge each one , Vary slow
Click to expand...
It will only show a voltage reading. I use a multimeter to check amperage and its puts out a bit more than advertised. It works very well with my portables.

As far as your NOCO, it's only sending 120W (12Vx10A) to your bank. 400AH x 12V = 4800WH. At 120W it will take around 40hrs to charge up. Your Gen will run out of gas 3 times before you can finish.

I would get that 75A Aims and something like I have thru amazon and see what works best for you. Now that we are in season they will accept returns until Jan 31 2021. Keep what works best for you and return the other.
 
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ed6269 said:
Hello the Original post here and I was considering the Progressive Dynamics PD9145ALV and after reading your post I see that it is the current limited type that you don't recommend for an all around converter and I was wondering if you have a recommendation for a constant voltage output type converter so I don't have to worry about abusing my BMS in any way.
Thanks
Click to expand...
The PD looks like a normal Lithium charger. Not the most sophisticated (they recommend disconnecting it from the battery after charging in order to maximize battery life). Since this is AC powered this should not be a problem in an RV unless you leave your RV constantly plugged into shore power. In that case you may want to add a disconnect between the charger and the battery to prevent the charger from constantly topping off the battery.

More advanced charging systems reduce the charger output voltage low enough to still power DC loads, but avoid recharging the battery until the battery has discharged enough to need recharging. This is harder than it sounds since battery voltage can be a poor indicator of the battery state of charge except right after it is fully charged or when it is almost fully discharged.

Advanced charge control can be a complicated juggling act when you have multiple charge sources (solar, alternator, shore power). This is why the Victron infrastructure can seem overly complicated. It supports a system level management of charge sources and loads to maximize available power and battery life. And this can be a somewhat convoluted thing to do.

The issue I was alluding too in my earlier post is related to the differences between lead acid and lithium batteries.

Lead Acid batteries will have the longest life if kept at a full state of charge (SOC), with only the occasional descent into lower states of charge. They also have a quick self discharge rate. If left unused for too long one of these batteries can easily kill itself. While these batteries are capable of monumental bursts of current for a few seconds, if you ever discharge them below 50% SOC, you are doing damage to them so don't do that. These characteristics make them an excellent choice (better than lithium) for starting internal combustion engines. They don't like heat, but will tolerate it. They lose much of their capacity at cold temperature, but are not damaged by being frozen or charged while frozen.

Lithium batteries will have the longest life if kept at about 30% SOC. You can charge them up to 100% and discharge them down to 0% every day without doing damage to them, but exceeding either limit, or keeping the batteries near either limit for a large percentage of the time will shorten their useful life. Lithium also has a very slow rate of self discharge so it is enough to recharge an unused battery once a year then put it back on the shelf. They don't like heat and charging at high temperatures will reduce the usable life. They lose much of their capacity at cold temperature, but are not damaged by being used below freezing. Charging below freezing temperature however will damage them, so don't do this.
 
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