Brucey
Solar Wizard
It's been 5 hours since my last Victron delivery....baby steps. Hooked up a smart battery sense to the Redodo and networked it with the IP22 charger.
Victron is Over-priced Eurotrash. Why would anybody buy Victron over an AiO?
- Thread starter sunshine_eggo
- Start date
Aridom82
Learning addict
smart solar 250/100 + 2x 5000va multiplus II + 30kwh eg4 + 12*450 watt solar panels would be 1k+3k+9k+2k = 15k ish, if you spend 600 a month in gas (goddamn), that would be around two years plus change in payback time if you dont count the car.
Now try a 24k three phase system that can take 20kwp of solar and 60kwh of batteries with victron, plus 37x530w solar panels, you might as well buy the damn sun.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 19,079
Blue is my favorite color.
And Victron is quality stuff.
If it weren't for the price, my whole system would be Blue.
But when you are building a large system. Savings are compounded exponentially.
And Victron is quality stuff.
If it weren't for the price, my whole system would be Blue.
But when you are building a large system. Savings are compounded exponentially.
Aridom82
Learning addict
24kw max, about 5-6 continuous with 60kwh battery for: home electricity (workstation, cooking, hot water, 2 meat freezers), workshop electricity (lathe, milling machine, welding machine,... etc lights, computers), heating and ac of both places, electric car charging, external lights during the night, security and com systems...
3x Quattro 10k 2x 450/200 charge controllers.
And you won’t have to replace any of it in 2 years for the next best thing
You’d be under 20k for all of the Victron equipment. Not much different than trying to go 3 phase with any other tier one
Aridom82
Learning addict
i hope you have a good time monetizing your sofa lol
If it’s a black couch and in a back room he may have already had it monetized for a long while now ?
Aridom82
Learning addict
That is 20k just for the victron system. I did it with 3k with 3 voltronic max axpert 8kw, that is 17k difference. I mean is not a small difference.
I get that the victron is top quality and super reliable, but the voltronic is not garbage either and it has 2 year warranty. The voltronic pay for themselves way before the warranty expires
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Victron is nice kit and I would be very happy to have it but I get what I need for 1/3rd of the cost.
As for plug 'n' play, honestly can it be any easier than an AIO?
I have full remote monitoring and automation control.
I have solar forecasting (e.g. my automations use it to assess what sort of supplemental battery charging might be needed each day and then adjust the charging strategy accordingly).
Also, I don't have the space for a Victron system of the same capacity. It would require far more wall space than I have available.
But the backup, support and warranty is an important factor - I do not expect I will get much, if anything, in the way of support for my AIO. This support has value. The question is, how much value? Is it really worth paying triple? There is no right or wrong answer.
Longevity is also a factor - how long will my unit last? Don't know but replacement isn't expensive.
Fundamentally if Victron was the only option then at their prices I would not have a system at all. It's really that simple.
As for plug 'n' play, honestly can it be any easier than an AIO?
I have full remote monitoring and automation control.
I have solar forecasting (e.g. my automations use it to assess what sort of supplemental battery charging might be needed each day and then adjust the charging strategy accordingly).
Also, I don't have the space for a Victron system of the same capacity. It would require far more wall space than I have available.
But the backup, support and warranty is an important factor - I do not expect I will get much, if anything, in the way of support for my AIO. This support has value. The question is, how much value? Is it really worth paying triple? There is no right or wrong answer.
Longevity is also a factor - how long will my unit last? Don't know but replacement isn't expensive.
Fundamentally if Victron was the only option then at their prices I would not have a system at all. It's really that simple.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
I briefly had a "100A" Victron Autotransformer. I returned it, and ended up with different AIO's. Seemed to be well built, nice aluminum case. Pretty much impossible to stuff three 2AWG cables in the thing, much less 6. I managed it cussing the whole time. The openings had an odd "gland" fitting would not take US standard anything.
I call BS on support being good. I tried calling, writing (soaking and scrubbing and still I get "ring around the collar") to no avail, to answer a stupidly easy question. They sent me in circles. I might still have the E-mails from the website inquiries, they literally sent me for support to a vendor that did not sell the product I was inquiring about, I spun in circles for a couple of weeks.
My problem and question was around the disparity in voltage between the legs on the split. I was feeding 240v and getting something silly like 115 on one leg and 125 on the other. I have pictures I don't remember the exact numbers but they were WAY out. I finally got a response from someone unrelated to Victron that this was normal. Awright, fortunatly the inverters I was using fell over under load, so I'm happy I got rid of all that cruft, and replaced it with 2 AIO's. The differental on my 18KPV/12LV's is +- 1v.
I'm don't really see much benefit in a 'Component' system approach for Solar if you can get a decent AIO, like a SolArk or EG4.
It may have lots of components, and it may end up being complicated, but at least you get to pay more for it.
I call BS on support being good. I tried calling, writing (soaking and scrubbing and still I get "ring around the collar") to no avail, to answer a stupidly easy question. They sent me in circles. I might still have the E-mails from the website inquiries, they literally sent me for support to a vendor that did not sell the product I was inquiring about, I spun in circles for a couple of weeks.
My problem and question was around the disparity in voltage between the legs on the split. I was feeding 240v and getting something silly like 115 on one leg and 125 on the other. I have pictures I don't remember the exact numbers but they were WAY out. I finally got a response from someone unrelated to Victron that this was normal. Awright, fortunatly the inverters I was using fell over under load, so I'm happy I got rid of all that cruft, and replaced it with 2 AIO's. The differental on my 18KPV/12LV's is +- 1v.
I'm don't really see much benefit in a 'Component' system approach for Solar if you can get a decent AIO, like a SolArk or EG4.
It may have lots of components, and it may end up being complicated, but at least you get to pay more for it.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Reliability is important to a point. One of the questions you have to ask is: Is it reliable enough and inexpensive enough, that I can just buy a spare and leave it sitting there if it croaks? How painful is it to swap it in if it does? Is something better and less expensive going to be available by the time it dies? YMMV
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Victron is not "wired" for direct consumer support. What did your vendor say when you contacted them?
When I have a question, I call, text or email my Victron vendor. He usually gets back to me within a day or two with the answer. On the rare occasion that he doesn't know, he reaches out to Victron and has an answer in another 1-2 days. I did not pay a premium of any kind. Prices were "Amazon or better".
More in favor of Victron:
- The manuals and documentation include a ton of helpful information and are well written in English to promote understanding. It's a pleasure to read their manuals.
- Their Wiring Unlimited document is a perfect example and reflects a company that is focused on supporting their customers.
- The manuals and documentation include a ton of helpful information and are well written in English to promote understanding. It's a pleasure to read their manuals.
- Their Wiring Unlimited document is a perfect example and reflects a company that is focused on supporting their customers.
Who makes a reliable low frequency all in one?
I haven’t found one. So for low frequency one is essentially forced to go component system
There are continuous comparisons to solark and luxpower but they aren’t close to similar in design either.
I haven’t found one. So for low frequency one is essentially forced to go component system
There are continuous comparisons to solark and luxpower but they aren’t close to similar in design either.
Where did you find the max axpert for sale? I’ve seen a couple of threads about them on here but wasn’t sure which vendors people were using.
You make a very valid point. My heart and brain tell me Victron or midnite. My pocket book tells me Growatt lmao. But only because it’s the only LF AIO I can find on outside of the eg4 6000ex and I’d like something larger
This!
Aridom82
Learning addict
Is a very popular online vendor in Italy, a lot of people buy their products and have good enough reviews. If i lived in the us i would probably have gone for the eg4 products
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
I bought it on Amazon. Requests got routed directly fo Victron. It was not a good experience. Most of the places around here that sell Victron only sell a limited number of their products, none of them the autotransformer. Signature Solar does sell the autotransformer, I eventually got a response from them, but we've had the SS support discussion to death. I can't say I'm a fountain of knowledge around AC feed systems but I have had occasion to connect a "dry transformer" for an application at one time to create a neutral. To this day I'm struggling with the idea of an 8v differential between the legs being "normal". For starters it could exacerbate the problem you are trying to solve if all your load ends up on the lower voltage leg, the Victron claims to handle a 30A differential.
To my point someone was praising them for being small and watching over everything wonderful people and all that, yet after contacting them three times and on the 2nd and 3rd try asking them not to put me in touch with the same people that refused to help me, they did just that. So, while it's great you got good tech support, I'm thinking it was your vendor that was great not Victron per se.
I also think if you want to sell a product that takes 100A conductors (2AWG) you darn well ought to make it a little easier to "fold them in". If the connector is visibly stressed once screwed down, and it requires a series of 45 degree bends in a 1-1/2 - 2-1/2 inch span with three 2AWG wires you did not properly engineer the box. I have pictures, I managed it, and cussed the whole time. I had to have help getting the wires in the box. YMMV, but the EG4 was a total breeze, I pushed it thru 1-1/2 conduit, slight bend with my fingers (instead of mangling the insulation with the Kleins and a cloth) strip criimped a ferrule stuff under the hex nut done.
Also panels are just getting bigger and bigger and better and better. I can't find a component MPPT that will handle 500+VOC and I'll be darned if I'm going to run #4 or #6 up to my panels to handle 50 odd amps and up. For smaller systems with only a few panels it's less relevant but if you start getting upwards of 40 panels (I have 48) do you really want 10+ MPPT's? If I wanted to go Victron, that's where I'd be. There are folks here on the form that like to fiddle with the hardware, BYOBattery banks, and the like, so this kind of thing is probably more fun for them. I toyed with the idea of doing my own batteries and BMC, but I'm also a tiny bit anal, and I really like the idea of rack mounting battery modules with built-in BMC's. If your playing with this Solar stuff, you are going to be running a lot of wire all over the place. Playing around with Victron stuff will not ease this burden, so while I think their gear is pretty it is highly unlikely I would ever buy it moving forward unless they were to create an AIO on par with Sol-Ark or EG4/Lux.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The EG4 stuff didn't exist when I bought my blue stuff. Plus, I wanted proven reliability and not another thing to worry about. I have no regrets. Well, maybe I regret not going bigger.