Insulation roof of cabin

Wondering if the mass of that fireplace could be utilized installing a pellet stove insert?

Maybe an internal room could be made really well insulated?

KITROBASKIN said:

Wondering if the mass of that fireplace could be utilized installing a pellet stove insert?

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I’d stick it out the wall to not ruin the flawless ambience of a log cabin

12VoltInstalls said:

I’d stick it out the wall to not ruin the flawless ambience of a log cabin

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I have a large fisher wood stove next to the fireplace.
The chimney has 2 clay chimneys inside the brick. I had a fireplace insert I was going to install last year but the shear weight and having to modify the fireplace and install a liner stopped me from doing it. I think it would have been a good idea but wasn’t ready for the extra expense and effort last year. The large wood stove cranks some heat but the Swiss cheese cabin was releasing it quickly.
This winter I was considering replacing the 30,000 btu infrared heater with a blue flame thinking it might work better? Or running 2 of them? I have a 280gallon propane tank so I think I could run 2 easily to get the cabin warmer quicker. Does anyone know if the blue flame version would be worth buying and swapping? I have 2 infrared models I could currently install

Scoutmaster said:

I have a large fisher wood stove next to the fireplace.
The chimney has 2 clay chimneys inside the brick. I had a fireplace insert I was going to install last year but the shear weight and having to modify the fireplace and install a liner stopped me from doing it. I think it would have been a good idea but wasn’t ready for the extra expense and effort last year. The large wood stove cranks some heat but the Swiss cheese cabin was releasing it quickly.
This winter I was considering replacing the 30,000 btu infrared heater with a blue flame thinking it might work better? Or running 2 of them? I have a 280gallon propane tank so I think I could run 2 easily to get the cabin warmer quicker. Does anyone know if the blue flame version would be worth buying and swapping? I have 2 infrared models I could currently install

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I's guess that any of those heaters you show are "ventless", which means the combustion is generally somewhat "complete" but you are using room air for that combustion, and then releasing anything left over back into the room, which is the downside. "Complete" is therefore a misleading term from these manufacturers. One thing left over is a fairly significant amount of moisture, which is what most people notice. As for whether the blue flame is any better than what you have, I'd suggest you look at the efficiency of the heater you have now and compare that to the efficiency of the blue flame heater (I'd guess it's a Martin) to see if you gain any efficiency. My guess is that you do not, so the change would be primarily aesthetic, but it depends on the specs.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of ventless heaters because of their use of already conditioned air for combustion, and more so, for the fact that they release whatever is left over back into the room. We use an old one in a drafty old building we own (from about 1820) where my wife has a seasonal shop, just to get the place up to habitable temps when she wants to go work there in the winter, but then she shuts it off and relies on a heat pump. We can also heat the place with it if the power goes out, which is a benefit. So, they do a great job for warming the place up (something you desire, it seems) but I don't think I'd want to keep it on whenever you're there, day after day, all the time. Direct vent gas heaters don't have that problem, and are my go-to when you're going to leave them on for continuous use. They are, however, less efficient with their use of gas as I understand it.

Madcodger said:

I's guess that any of those heaters you show are "ventless", which means the combustion is generally somewhat "complete" but you are using room air for that combustion, and then releasing anything left over back into the room, which is the downside. "Complete" is therefore a misleading.......

Personally, I'm not a big fan of ventless heaters because of their use of already conditioned air for combustion, and more so, for the fact that they release whatever is left over back into the room.....

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Ditto!

I grew up in and around homes that used these heaters, most built before 1960. In a pooly insulated and drafty house, there is actually a fairly constant supply of fresh air to feed these and keep the flame blue (if the flame is turning orange it is not getting enough oxygen). I still keep some "Big Buddy" heaters for emergencies, but this style of heat is not something I want to go back too.

If you can control the way that air comes in (meaning intentionally bringing fresh outside air to the heater instead of it leaking in from doors, windows and cracks) then you will get a cleaner burn from whatever combustion source you have and have better control over heating.

If you can heat MASS (a solid or liquid) I think you will find the the home more comfortable overall than just heating air.

Good to know. Maybe I’ll invest in a vented gas heater and drill a hole through the wall.
This winter it’s looking like I’ll probably stick with what I have installed…

*normally we ski up at 6pm on a Friday night to a cabin they is 0-10 degrees and buried in snow… Friday night is pretty cold ? but not to bad…I don’t leave the heater on while we sleep it freaks me out… but by noon on Saturday the cabin is cozy with the wood burning. The propane is used to take off the edge when my wife is there.

With all of the upgrades this summer I’m curious how it performs. Going to run the wood stove tonight and propane for the first time this year. It’s about 40 degrees outside in the morning so not quite cold enough but hopefully a good first test.

We are over 7,000 feet altitude. Gas heaters typically need a high altitude orifice to function decently. What is your altitude? We did not have consistent success with a small catalytic propane heater. I was told (later) the high altitude lowered efficiency and effectiveness of the catalytic process.

SparkyGage said:

can heat MASS (a solid or liquid) I think you will find the the home more comfortable overall than just heating air

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That’s one reason it takes 12 hours to get comfy: the logs and everything inside the walls of them have to go from 20*F to 65*F to not be ‘radiating’ low temperature heat.

Propane is quick heat, but if it were me and solar was in action I’d think a humongous pellet stove would be the ticket. You could even “stock it” and put it on a timer (if it will initialize at its previous state it was before power is turned off) so that when I arrived it would be at a head start. Things may modulate a bit but a funny thing I calculated a little while back here locally is that pellets per btu are (were) cheaper than seasoned delivered cordwood.

Ok that could be cool since I mostly go up Fri/Sat/Sun in the winter. My solar and batteries are a weak point during the winter.
I didn’t get to upgrading any of that yet. I’m still hoping to do a few things before the snow.

I imagine every year I’ll upgrade slowly… now that the big stuff is finished. This summer the floor/glass/chink/new logs/structure/joists/ took all my energy and effort.

KITROBASKIN said:

We are over 7,000 feet altitude. Gas heaters typically need a high altitude orifice to function decently. What is your altitude? We did not have consistent success with a small catalytic propane heater. I was told (later) the high altitude lowered efficiency and effectiveness of the catalytic process.

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I’m at 7000 also my propane shower and heater and generator seem to work great with standard setup. I am surprised…How would I know if the heater had an issue? It’s a standard infrared DynaGlo …The Gen. Struggles slightly in winter to start but the heater is working well. It takes a few minutes sometimes to light.

12VoltInstalls said:

That’s one reason it takes 12 hours to get comfy: the logs and everything inside the walls of them have to go from 20*F to 65*F to not be ‘radiating’ low temperature heat.

Propane is quick heat, but if it were me and solar was in action I’d think a humongous pellet stove would be the ticket. You could even “stock it” and put it on a timer (if it will initialize at its previous state it was before power is turned off) so that when I arrived it would be at a head start. Things may modulate a bit but a funny thing I calculated a little while back here locally is that pellets per btu are (were) cheaper than seasoned delivered cordwood.

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I have a fireplace insert pellet stove that is thermostatically controlled. It acts a supplement system to my homes central system and this year I should be able to power it during outages as it has less than a 1Kwt draw during ignition and then drops to around 300wt to run the blower. I'll know better this year as I have better tools to measure with.

BIGGEST CAVEAT I've found with a pellet stove it is making sure I am buying 100% HARD WOOD pellets and not pine blends. The hard wood burn 3-4 times longer than the blends, so 1/3 to 1/4 the cost. I think this has been the source of a lot of complaints about pellets.

That reminds me: I need to clean out my stove this weekend (it's not that bad)

We have 2 carbon monoxide detectors in our little house because of considerable propane use. Structure is not airtight but reasonable.

Initial impressions are positive regarding a Presto Heat Dish plus tilt parabolic electric heater (Costco). Instructions state it is a people warmer, not a house warmer; 3 to 10 feet away is suggested. Though it has a thermostat, like so many heaters, it is either full on or full off. Looks like you have grid power. If you want immediate local heat this will do it.

T-stat makes a click sound and I’m thinking expansion and contraction can be heard but for me, the sound of a Victron Phoenix 24 1200 inverter fan dominates the soundscape when making heat. (Rated 1000W but Victron Connect says 1250ish VA. EPOCH LFP battery 24V 100Ah says ~1280W)

SparkyGage said:

making sure I am buying 100% HARD WOOD pellets and not pine blends

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Many I know prefer the blends, certain brands with mostly hardwood composition. They like that the blends ignite more readily, while they do have to clean soot more often.
My dad doesn’t buy the blends either. I think if ‘started cold’ it takes a bit to get to putting out heat, but that thing does put out a lot of heat once it’s rolling.
For my shop I have a used pellet stove I haven’t hooked up yet. It won’t run 24/7, maybe not daily, but I’ll probably buy the blend pellets- but I’m going to run some hardwood to try

Scoutmaster said:

I’m at 7000 also my propane shower and heater and generator seem to work great with standard setup. I am surprised…How would I know if the heater had an issue? It’s a standard infrared DynaGlo …The Gen. Struggles slightly in winter to start but the heater is working well. It takes a few minutes sometimes to light.

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Watch the flame at the base - it should be blue as with ANY GAS APPLIANCE. (The ceramic heaters above the flame act as a catalyst ensure complete combustion and it's ok if they glow steady orange - more below.) If the flame is blue it is getting plenty of O2. If the flame itself is burning orange, it is not getting enough O2, OR it has some other issue, but if it is burning orange, it can be giving off Carbon Monoxide CO. Its a good idea too let in a fresh blast of outside air at least twice a day or run an air hose straight to the heater so that it is getting plenty of O2.

Your ceramics should "glow" orange but you should not see flame or sparks on them (beyond the occasional bug or dust bunny falling on it). They should stay clean, and not discolor. If you are able to light them OK with a match other long lighter, then it's just your "spark igniter" might be wearing out - they only seem to last a few years. You can try cleaning the tip with a file or sand paper to get clean metal, but they do wear out.

Hope this helps.

We purchased a direct (horizontal) vent Williams propane heater and the piezo igniter simply would not function from the git-go.

Ok good to to know…
I check out the flame/colors.

I feel the pilot light is pretty blue and the panels are a solid orange when they warm up.

TLDR the Tanuki's post: seal it up especially the bottom, stop transient air flow. that alone makes a huge difference. that fisher will heat that place much faster if you seal the house.

Scoutmaster said:

I have a large fisher wood stove next to the fireplace.
The chimney has 2 clay chimneys inside the brick. I had a fireplace insert I was going to install last year but the shear weight and having to modify the fireplace and install a liner stopped me from doing it. I think it would have been a good idea but wasn’t ready for the extra expense and effort last year. The large wood stove cranks some heat but the Swiss cheese cabin was releasing it quickly.
This winter I was considering replacing the 30,000 btu infrared heater with a blue flame thinking it might work better? Or running 2 of them? I have a 280gallon propane tank so I think I could run 2 easily to get the cabin warmer quicker. Does anyone know if the blue flame version would be worth buying and swapping? I have 2 infrared models I could currently install

Click to expand...

that fisher is i think a "Momma Bear" model. single door front load, whats the width and height of it? I built my own "fisher stove" with some mods about 6 years ago. i added the internal baffle that was present on all later (1st gen EPA) fisher stoves, then i added in a second reburn section that works off of gasification. Either a momma bear or a poppa bear fisher will heat up that cabin no issues if you stop the air leaks. my bungalow/cabin on fuji I was running through about 9 cubic meters a year (2.5 cords) (early Nov. through april) weekends Fri night ~ Sun night / 60 days per year needing heat.

That was only after the 2nd year when i closed off the bottom of the cabin plus using very heavy drapes for all the windows to make a barrier. you could spot all of the air leaks in the winter by simply wetting your hand and walking around close to the windows and doors. prior to drapes and underpinning it was 1200 usd for heating oil and 2.5 cords of wood.

this year i had all new siding, with fiberglass bat insulation, double pane glass etc installed along with insulating the overhead, and tyvek installed i know it will make a good differenace.

no insulation old asbestos siding: notice there is literally no insulation at all.

new insulation plywood, tyvek and double pain glass


home made fisher stove last winter doing the job.



valves on he back are for the gasification reburn, but it works too well raises temp quickly, to high (for comfort not safety) and goes through more wood. now days only use during initial 1 hour to bring cabin from -15° to 20°c then it gets shut off. i also put a viewing window in the side for ambience purposes.

That is awesome info thanks. I definitely need to figure out a way to seal up the bottom.
It sits about 8-12 inches off the ground on the front wall and 40 inches at the back. The back part under the porch is a wide open so that’s about 25 feet by 4feet completely open all winter… the sides are just covered in a sheet of plastic and some rough cut lumber or just metal. I had to do so much work under the cabin I haven’t sealed it up properly yet.
We lifted the cabin with 20 bottle jacks to get it level and replaced many of the piers. Unfortunately i still have some messy work to do under the cabin which I’ve been putting off since it’s very uncomfortable underneath.

I think it’s a Papa Bear ? Fisher. It cranks out some heat… the first year I had a Baby bear it wasn’t big enough…and wood here is abundant so firewood is easily available.
Last winter the snow filled in the gaps for me.

anything that stops air flow below the house will help immensely.

For under the cabin, hang reflective bubble wrap. You can just staple it up.

Here's one video, but there are many in YouTube. I did this to my shooting cabin.


You can buy it here:

REFLECTIX 48"x100' Double Bubble White Reflective Foil Insulation 400SQFT Seams: (4 Rolls of 4FT X 25FT) https://a.co/d/81OJkGv