Never mind.
- Thread starter DioRox
- Start date
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
In my experience most "I have a friend" solar installers are jackasses just like every other one. I had a friend refer me to their bro-in-law. The system started out at $30K - special deal for a "friend of a friend." By the time they realized I had some knowledge and had already gotten other quotes, the system came down very quickly to barely half that - slightly under everybody else.
IMHO, you can't trust anybody that has a financial interest in "helping" you.
The need for batteries depends on the all-in-one (AiO). Few work without batteries. The issue with no battery operation is that the MPPT can't react fast enough to handle significant load changes - the PV needs to produce EXACTLY the loads you're using.
IMHO, you need to clearly define what you have. Get on the roof and snap a picture of the label on the back side of the panel. 14 year old panels may not be in your best interest.
Once you know that, decide what you want to get out of the system in the end, i.e., 5-10 years from now, what do you want to do with this? Once you have that, you can figure a sensible way to move forward.
IMHO, you can't trust anybody that has a financial interest in "helping" you.
The need for batteries depends on the all-in-one (AiO). Few work without batteries. The issue with no battery operation is that the MPPT can't react fast enough to handle significant load changes - the PV needs to produce EXACTLY the loads you're using.
IMHO, you need to clearly define what you have. Get on the roof and snap a picture of the label on the back side of the panel. 14 year old panels may not be in your best interest.
Once you know that, decide what you want to get out of the system in the end, i.e., 5-10 years from now, what do you want to do with this? Once you have that, you can figure a sensible way to move forward.
You need to find the panels specs and also find out if they have installed micro inverters with them. I suspect they do being they are a grid tie setup. While not being impossible to rewire them as an off grid setup not knowing their age, and if they are functioning OK, would likely have me telling you much the same that the installer you discussed it with.
For a full off grid setup you likely will want some battery storage. There are a few setups that can function without it but most people have found that to be unreliable.
For a full off grid setup you likely will want some battery storage. There are a few setups that can function without it but most people have found that to be unreliable.
BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
Your instincts are correct, he's lying. There are inverters that will operate off-grid with only the solar panels connected, no batteries. However, this arrangement is unstable. At least one battery will help smooth out fluctuations in solar output on partly cloudy days.
As far as the electrical panels, wiring can be removed and the holes covered with KO seals.
There is some rewiring of the main panel needed if you want to go off-grid. Depending on its age maybe needs replacing.
As far as the electrical panels, wiring can be removed and the holes covered with KO seals.
There is some rewiring of the main panel needed if you want to go off-grid. Depending on its age maybe needs replacing.
HighDesertOffgrid
Solar Addict
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I don't normally recommend solar generators, this would be the exception. Rewire a string or two of panels and enjoy a little electricity while you assess and prepare.
Also, who is going to be "signing off" on an existing off'grid solar installation?
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It’s been my experience too when you get help from an Expert friend of family or another friend nothing good happens… you can’t deal from a postion of strength as well, or it will piss off the referring friend if he thinks you were rude to his expert…the expert can treat you less serious as he dosent have to earn your business.. he’s already got it…
….while NOT true in all cases , there’s a good chance you will be “worked over “when doing business with a friends expert… and ya won’t get kissed afterwards either...
Keep it purely business ..maintain your strength and distance…be fair but be firm … at some point you may both trust each other enough to be friends….. many factors will play into that…
J.
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As one of the most common examples for offgrid inverters there would be Victron, depending on the models you could even hook up a generator to charge the batteries, connect grid tie inverters to your offgrid system,..
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seneysolar
Solar Addict
Get a quote in writing and work forward from that.
Solark is a good trusted brand with good support and lately prices have come down. You will need a battery at least as a "keep alive" source plus absorbing surge loads.
Seems like you are on the right track.
Osmethne
Solar Enthusiast
Yeah post the quote here. A lot of us are quite experienced at tearing apart quotes.
250 seems low. I think the best cost per watt is around 400 currently.
250 seems low. I think the best cost per watt is around 400 currently.
Rednecktek
Solar Wizard
So aren't there some inverters that can take input from string inverters (provide the sync), and talk to the battery banks? I thought there were a couple high end flavors that could do that.
Otherwise, it would seem you've got to get up there and get all those microinverters out of the system to get them talking to a new inverter. Getting your residency permit with an off-grid array is going to be a LOT of hoops depending on what level of NEC you need to comply with, what the local AHU wants, and finding UL compliant batteries WITH the stamps and paperwork.
Paperwork and inspections are going to be the biggest obsticals involved.
Otherwise, it would seem you've got to get up there and get all those microinverters out of the system to get them talking to a new inverter. Getting your residency permit with an off-grid array is going to be a LOT of hoops depending on what level of NEC you need to comply with, what the local AHU wants, and finding UL compliant batteries WITH the stamps and paperwork.
Paperwork and inspections are going to be the biggest obsticals involved.
HighDesertOffgrid
Solar Addict
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I would have the PoCo drop a meter into the existing base. And begin repairing the disconnected existing solar system the minute the inspectors left. No idea what a residency permit is.
I don't know how to resolve the "with some batteries" and then I don't want batteries.
But yes most of the low frequency all-in-one inverters will run without batteries if there is enough sun input for the load. I've reproduced this situation for example - works fine. Welding is a very drastic load change and the inverter responds fine.
I saw somebody mention micro inverters but I don't see them in the pics and OP didn't mention he has them. I doubt a 2010 vintage install on a farmer's market shed has microinverters. That is before RSD and they weren't that common back then - all of our commercial projects in that year would have been string inverters. And of course the combiner box wouldn't have strings running into it like that if there were microinverters.
Yes you should be able to disconnect from the grid (open breaker, leave meter) and install a simple all-in-one. If that installation is done per code and as a replacement to equipment that was there previously that would typically qualify as maintenance work and not require a permit -depends on your jurisdiction.
Given the vandalism you do need to inspect everything for dead-ended and cut wires that good be an issue, who knows who started to steal copper and then stopped before they finished.
There would be no difference in the combiner box wiring on grid vs off grid, that sounds like BS. Just sounds like a contractor that doesn't want that job or you need to be more insistent on what the job is.
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Rednecktek
Solar Wizard
Good plan!I would have the PoCo drop a meter into the existing base. And begin repairing the disconnected existing solar system the minute the inspectors left. No idea what a residency permit is.
The Residency Permit is the final approval from the municipality showing your electrical is OK (and permitted/inspected), your water is OK (and permitted/inspected), your septic is OK (and permitted/inspected), your building and all the plumbing/insulation/roofing/etc is all OK (and permitted/inspected) and so on. It's the final step before you can legally live in the house you build.
If you're lucky the system used to have string inverters which makes converting to an off-grid MUCH easier.
HighDesertOffgrid
Solar Addict
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Roger. I would hope that most of those steps would be moot if OP is moving into an existing building (the school) Unless it was condemned. A friend bought a retired grade school. It was cool he had his own personal indoor basketball court.
Never mind.
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Never mind.
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Never mind.
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Never mind.
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