diy solar

diy solar

6000XP -PV volts v.s. Watts incoming power

Solar Scott

New Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2023
Messages
51
Location
Misssouri
Learning to interpret data on my 6000XP, 2 LL-S batteries, 10 (400) watt panels.
My inverter will show incoming PV voltage of about 300v this time of year. But the EG4 app will vary in Watts. See below photos. I have had as much as 1200+ watts on the app, with 300v of PV. Today I have 353v of PV, with 449w of PV power.
Why is there such a variance between PV input of volts on the inverter, and PV power on the app? I must be interpreting this wrong?
I would expect the PV power watts to rise/fall proportionally.IMG_1378.jpegIMG_1377.png

Should I be adding all three PV power + battery power + backup power (eps) to be proportional to incoming volts?
 
Solar panels are more or less “constant voltage” devices. Meaning that when they are exposed to a reasonable amount of ambient sunlight - even when shaded - they stay at about the same voltage as when in full sun. The available amps are what varies much more based on conditions. Thus the wattage (power) output varies based much more on the available amps as opposed to changes in the voltages.

If you look at the EG4 monitoring portal you’ll see both voltages and watts for both mppt’s separately - but the app dashboard only shows wattage of both chargers combined and doesn’t even show voltages at all.
 
Understood now, I was getting excited when I saw PV voltage go up, disappointed when watts didn’t follow. Logged on to EG4 monitor for first time, interesting. How do I figure how many kWh
I have generated this year? Is it just “solar production”? Does “battery” contribute?IMG_1379.png
 
Wattage is a calculation of voltage x amperage.
Wh (watt hours) is Wattage x hours.
K = 1000
 
Wow, information overload on the monitoring portal. I need some time to digest all this.
Thanks again for the help. Love this forum.
I continue to learn…..
 
Understood now, I was getting excited when I saw PV voltage go up, disappointed when watts didn’t follow. Logged on to EG4 monitor for first time, interesting. How do I figure how many kWh
I have generated this year? Is it just “solar production”? Does “battery” contribute?View attachment 185861
If I'm not mistaken, the total shown there in the energy overview section for "Battery" is likely the total discharge power from the batteries. When you say the total kWh you have generated, it is tempting to just look at the solar production number, but if you are constantly running in inverter mode, that power (minus a chunk of overhead/efficiency losses) is going partly to the inverter to power your loads and partly to charge your batteries. Then there is the efficiency losses in the round trip of the energy to charge the batteries and the energy that gets discharged from the batteries to run the inverter at night - introducing another efficiency loss. I think with low solar output from the array this time of year, there are greater efficiency losses on that little bit of solar power than there are when the solar output is greater. I think the easiest way to figure it is to compare the Import to User (power pulled from the grid) to the consumption (power consumed by your loads). Ultimately, the difference is what your setup saved you vs if you had just powered the same loads directly from the grid.

BTW - I highly recommend monitoring the system primarily with Solar Assistant. The data there is much easier to digest in my opinion, plus it samples once per second, where the EG4 monitoring portal only looks at a snapshot of what is happening every 5 minutes, which should make the Solar Assistant data more accurate. You can use both systems at the same time.
 
If you are like me - with such degraded solar performance this time of year - in my case due to shading in addition to the short days - I found my system was actually losing more to efficiency/conversion losses than I was pulling in from the solar power. I discovered that by using a combination of the battery eco mode setting and the On Grid EOD SOC - the battery charge point when the system will stop pulling any power from the batteries and go into pure bypass mode (charging the batteries only from whatever solar comes in) until the battery charge level get's 10% higher - then it will switch from bypass mode to inverter mode - allows me to still get a net gain from the system during these low solar power seasons. I just wish there was another parameter setting to set the charge level where it comes back out of bypass mode. It appears to be hard coded to 10% greater than the On Grid EOD SOC setting. See this thread - Avoiding efficiency losses on the 6000xp
 
Is there a way to bypass manually for the status shown above? I am almost at 20% this morning, with 450 watts incoming.IMG_1392.png
 
Is there a way to bypass manually for the status shown above? I am almost at 20% this morning, with 450 watts incoming.View attachment 186233
There's no "easy button" option to tell it to go to bypass mode manually. I just play with the options & thresholds to get it to do what I want. Try this combination:

  • Enable battery ECO mode
  • Set your AC Charge Start Battery SOC(%) to lower than your current battery charge - say like 15%
  • In the discharge setting section, set your On Grid EOD SOC(%) to lower than your current battery charge but higher than the AC Charge Start Battery SOC - say like 20%.
Using the configuration example above, it should switch the unit to grid bypass mode - pulling exactly the power from the grid only what is demanded by the loads, with solar continuing to charge your batteries. If you leave it at those settings, once the batteries get to 30%, it will switch back to running the loads off the inverter with solar and battery power until the battery gets down to 20% again. Note that having the On Grid EOD SOC set higher than the AC Charge Start Battery SOC means the batteries shouldn't ever get lower than the On Grid EOD SOC - meaning you would never actually use the grid for charging - only solar. If you are like me and want to minimize what you pull from the grid, that's ideal.

BTW - once it's in bypass mode, if you want to let the batteries charge more than 10% more before switching to the inverter, you can raise the On Grid EOD SOC threshold to higher (like 80%) and the unit will stay in bypass mode until the batteries get up to 10% higher than the threshold (90% in this example). I'm only doing this exercise this time of year where my solar panels are so shaded that it is taking multiple days to fully charge my batteries, so I only change the threshold every 3-4 days. Once the shade goes away later in the year I plan to leave my On-Grid EOD SOC setting to be relatively low - like 20% - and just leave it there as the batteries will fully charge each day and only get down to like 40% overnight before charging from solar again and never pull any power from the grid for charging or for bypass.

I hope this is making sense. Maybe it sounds confusing but it's what is working for me during this time of year. Otherwise, with not enough solar coming in to cover my loads and charge the batteries enough to get through the night, keeping the batteries charged with AC input was actually consuming more power because of efficiency losses than my loads were consuming - so I was actually losing money vs just running my loads from the grid. At least in this way I only use from the grid exactly what my loads consume until after 3-4 days my batteries are charged and switch the unit to inverter mode and I get one battery cycle worth of grid savings for the day.

I'm just hoping EG4 actually adds a second threshold like I suggested to them to give a corresponding threshold to the On Grid EOD SOC - like an On Grid Start of Discharge setting so I wouldn't need to change the On Grid EOD SOC setting every 3-4 days. ;)
 
There's no "easy button" option to tell it to go to bypass mode manually. I just play with the options & thresholds to get it to do what I want. Try this combination:

  • Enable battery ECO mode
  • Set your AC Charge Start Battery SOC(%) to lower than your current battery charge - say like 15%
  • In the discharge setting section, set your On Grid EOD SOC(%) to lower than your current battery charge but higher than the AC Charge Start Battery SOC - say like 20%.
Using the configuration example above, it should switch the unit to grid bypass mode - pulling exactly the power from the grid only what is demanded by the loads, with solar continuing to charge your batteries. If you leave it at those settings, once the batteries get to 30%, it will switch back to running the loads off the inverter with solar and battery power until the battery gets down to 20% again. Note that having the On Grid EOD SOC set higher than the AC Charge Start Battery SOC means the batteries shouldn't ever get lower than the On Grid EOD SOC - meaning you would never actually use the grid for charging - only solar. If you are like me and want to minimize what you pull from the grid, that's ideal.

BTW - once it's in bypass mode, if you want to let the batteries charge more than 10% more before switching to the inverter, you can raise the On Grid EOD SOC threshold to higher (like 80%) and the unit will stay in bypass mode until the batteries get up to 10% higher than the threshold (90% in this example). I'm only doing this exercise this time of year where my solar panels are so shaded that it is taking multiple days to fully charge my batteries, so I only change the threshold every 3-4 days. Once the shade goes away later in the year I plan to leave my On-Grid EOD SOC setting to be relatively low - like 20% - and just leave it there as the batteries will fully charge each day and only get down to like 40% overnight before charging from solar again and never pull any power from the grid for charging or for bypass.

I hope this is making sense. Maybe it sounds confusing but it's what is working for me during this time of year. Otherwise, with not enough solar coming in to cover my loads and charge the batteries enough to get through the night, keeping the batteries charged with AC input was actually consuming more power because of efficiency losses than my loads were consuming - so I was actually losing money vs just running my loads from the grid. At least in this way I only use from the grid exactly what my loads consume until after 3-4 days my batteries are charged and switch the unit to inverter mode and I get one battery cycle worth of grid savings for the day.

I'm just hoping EG4 actually adds a second threshold like I suggested to them to give a corresponding threshold to the On Grid EOD SOC - like an On Grid Start of Discharge setting so I wouldn't need to change the On Grid EOD SOC setting every 3-4 days. ;)
This is a very enlightening thread for the uninitiated, especially if you read it about 7 times. One more discussion has been copied and saved for when I get these two units powered.

With all the rain and cold, I wont get panels running for a while. Been thinking about starting the XP's up on battery and grid just to start working with the programming and batteries. IF that can be done, with no solar input.
 
Been thinking about starting the XP's up on battery and grid just to start working with the programming and batteries.
I’m wring mine up know and plan to do exactly that until I get my panels up in the spring.
 
This is a very enlightening thread for the uninitiated, especially if you read it about 7 times. One more discussion has been copied and saved for when I get these two units powered.

With all the rain and cold, I wont get panels running for a while. Been thinking about starting the XP's up on battery and grid just to start working with the programming and batteries. IF that can be done, with no solar input.
You definitely can do that for the learning experience ?
 
Been thinking about starting the XP's up on battery and grid just to start working with the programming and batteries. IF that can be done, with no solar input.
That’s what I did since Amazon lost my wire order. Now that I re ordered it all (and initiated a refund for the missing shipment) I was able this past week to fire up the inverter with just batteries. I lasted about 24 hrs before I pulled 4 panels out of the garage and dropped them on the ground to start charging the batteries ?

Tomorrow my electrician is coming to run a bunch of conduit, tie the inverter into the main panel w 6 gauge, tie inverter output into a new panel w 6 gauge, install a 4x4 trough, install some new outlets, and move some critical circuits to the new panel to test.
 
Well, it’s been a fun first couple weeks. Love the 6000XP, 2 LL-S batteries, and 400 watts of panels. I have a critical load panel wired with 2 freezers a fridge some lights and couple plug outlets. Solar has been minimal, lucky to see 400-700 watts in Missouri.
I always find the same solution for everyone, and it’s easy…
MORE BATTERIES……..MORE PANELS….
LOL!!!!
That’s my novice contribution for the day.
 
UPDATE:
I set this up and played with settings. Very cool. I wasn’t comfortable letting my batteries get down to 20/22% SOC and staying there waiting for sunny day. It would be my luck to have a power outage strike with little battery back up.

On a sunny winter day, I charge to 100% and deplete to about 65% overnight with my current loads on 2 LL-S batteries.

My next experiment will be to figure out how to leave 60% SOC waiting for sun. This way, in case of power outage, I will still have some time to react/conserve for critical loads. If it’s a cloudy day, it will bypass to grid and wait for sun.

My question is…..will it affect battery life for continued use at SOC never getting depleted to 20%?
 
Darn good question. Dont think it will affect life as much as capcity. Over time, stored capacity could slowly dimenish due to the cells never reaching, for lack of better words, a bottom balance.

Might me a good idea to run them down a few times a year. But what do I know??
 
Back
Top