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Adding Battery Backup To Existing System

cschill2020

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Joined
Sep 25, 2023
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10
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Bay Area, CA
Hi,

I have a grid-tie ~10kW (24x 400W + 24x Enphase IQ8M) system.

I am interested in adding battery backup. I want to add 44kWh LiFePO4 batteries. I am looking for inverter/charger suggestions that will AC couple with the Enphase micros.

Any inverter suggestions? I am looking at the SolArk 15 and will split off a 100A critical load panel.
 
Did you decide what you want to do? SolArk seems like a nice option if money isn't an issue
 
Hi,

I have a grid-tie ~10kW (24x 400W + 24x Enphase IQ8M) system.

I am interested in adding battery backup. I want to add 44kWh LiFePO4 batteries. I am looking for inverter/charger suggestions that will AC couple with the Enphase micros.

Any inverter suggestions? I am looking at the SolArk 15 and will split off a 100A critical load panel.
There are a few threads on here with people who have AC coupled systems. It seems the iQ8 series is not the best when it comes to running off grid with other inverters. Do you have frequent grid failures and need backup power often? Or do you want to go fully off grid? In those cases, I don't have any great recommendations beyond using Enphase batteries. Yes, they are expensive, but they are designed to work together. Your iQ8 inverters help to form the grid while working with the iQ batteries. When using anyone else's inverter, the iQ8 still thinks it is running on grid, and it seems to aggressively test to make sure the grid is a solid real grid.

While the Sol-Ark may work, they do want you to also have DC coupled panels to make the system more stable. They connect grid tied solar through their generator port, and when the batteries become close to full, it disconnects the grid tie inverters. Not the best solution as you could be forced to be running on batteries while the sun is still shining on the panels.

My system is using Enphase iQ7 inverters. They are not quite as picky as the 8s, but out of my 16 inverters, I typically have 5 of them that just won't stay producing while in off grid AC coupled mode. And the other 11 will randomly stop and restart. My battery inverter is a Schneider XW-Pro. It is a rock solid inverter, but the software has some holes in it. When running AC coupled on grid, it will NEVER start a charge cycle on it's own. The inverter shuts off when the battery drops to 0.5 volts ABOVE the "recharge volts" setting. And then it will sit for days without doing anything. For backup power, this was fine. It would charge up and stay charged, Then if the grid went down, it would run on the batteries, and pull them further down to the low voltage cut. When the grid returns, or AC coupled solar comes in, as long as it pulled the batteries below the recharge volts, it will then go into bulk charge.

A few of us on this forum have added our own controller to command the charge cycle, and that works great, but it is nothing off the shelf. You need to know a bit of programming to make it work. And even after we made it work, we still decided it was best to still add a few DC coupled panels to help with charging.

If you don't have many grid failures, then the AC coupling problems of the iQ8's are not really a big deal. You can do power time shifting while the inverters still see the real grid. The problem is finding a battery inverter that has the software to do it well. I have not seen one on the market that really does it right beyond the Enphase iQ system or a Tesla Powerwall. The new EG4 18K PV inverter says it can do time of use control, but I have not seen how it does it. Before I programmed my controller, I was charging at a fixed power when the sun was up, and discharging at a fixed power during the peak rate time. It worked, but was not ideal. To make it track solar production and energy usage, I had to add current meters. The Sol-Ark and EG4 include them, but does the software use them to control AC coupled charging rate?

Tell us more about what you are trying to do. Backup power is easy. Time shifting for "time of use" and "self consumption" takes a bit more work.
 
There are a few threads on here with people who have AC coupled systems. It seems the iQ8 series is not the best when it comes to running off grid with other inverters. Do you have frequent grid failures and need backup power often? Or do you want to go fully off grid? In those cases, I don't have any great recommendations beyond using Enphase batteries. Yes, they are expensive, but they are designed to work together. Your iQ8 inverters help to form the grid while working with the iQ batteries. When using anyone else's inverter, the iQ8 still thinks it is running on grid, and it seems to aggressively test to make sure the grid is a solid real grid.

While the Sol-Ark may work, they do want you to also have DC coupled panels to make the system more stable. They connect grid tied solar through their generator port, and when the batteries become close to full, it disconnects the grid tie inverters. Not the best solution as you could be forced to be running on batteries while the sun is still shining on the panels.

My system is using Enphase iQ7 inverters. They are not quite as picky as the 8s, but out of my 16 inverters, I typically have 5 of them that just won't stay producing while in off grid AC coupled mode. And the other 11 will randomly stop and restart. My battery inverter is a Schneider XW-Pro. It is a rock solid inverter, but the software has some holes in it. When running AC coupled on grid, it will NEVER start a charge cycle on it's own. The inverter shuts off when the battery drops to 0.5 volts ABOVE the "recharge volts" setting. And then it will sit for days without doing anything. For backup power, this was fine. It would charge up and stay charged, Then if the grid went down, it would run on the batteries, and pull them further down to the low voltage cut. When the grid returns, or AC coupled solar comes in, as long as it pulled the batteries below the recharge volts, it will then go into bulk charge.

A few of us on this forum have added our own controller to command the charge cycle, and that works great, but it is nothing off the shelf. You need to know a bit of programming to make it work. And even after we made it work, we still decided it was best to still add a few DC coupled panels to help with charging.

If you don't have many grid failures, then the AC coupling problems of the iQ8's are not really a big deal. You can do power time shifting while the inverters still see the real grid. The problem is finding a battery inverter that has the software to do it well. I have not seen one on the market that really does it right beyond the Enphase iQ system or a Tesla Powerwall. The new EG4 18K PV inverter says it can do time of use control, but I have not seen how it does it. Before I programmed my controller, I was charging at a fixed power when the sun was up, and discharging at a fixed power during the peak rate time. It worked, but was not ideal. To make it track solar production and energy usage, I had to add current meters. The Sol-Ark and EG4 include them, but does the software use them to control AC coupled charging rate?

Tell us more about what you are trying to do. Backup power is easy. Time shifting for "time of use" and "self consumption" takes a bit more work.
I'm going to try to do this, but without a battery. And a different inverter
 
I'm going to try to do this, but without a battery. And a different inverter
What are you going to try without a battery?
The point of AC coupling with another inverter is the battery is a place to push extra power to use later.
 
Or to turn on the microinverters. And maybe I'll use my EV as the battery. But for now, I can just use the DC array for power outages until I can afford some batteries
 
I am not aware of an EV that is allowing the battery to be used as a home store just yet. Hopefully that software will become available and the DC charge terminals can be used with a home inverter/charger bidirectional system soon.

While DC coupled solar panels can provide power while the sun is up, it is not reliable without at least a little bit of battery. Even a bird flying over the panels could cause your power to drop out. Even a small battery will help smooth out the system and vastly improve the efficiency. Without a battery, any extra power the PV panels produce is just lost. For example, the panels are getting enough sun to make 1,500 wats, but you are only using 300 watts to run a PC. 1,200 watts are just going nowhere. When the sun dips below 300 watts, your PC loses power.

Add even a small RV battery and that extra 1,200 watts is charging the battery up. Any glitch from shadows ar no problem at all as the battery just keeps the inverter powered. And the sam eis true for the night. You can run on battery power that was stored up from the solar panels earlier in the day. Trying to make it work without batteries will cost more than a suitable battery from Amazon etc.
 
That's what I was thinking too, but they said I would regret getting a small battery and might as well forget about getting anything. I'm going to aim for a 4kw DC array. Would it be worth getting 500whr battery set up? That's about $150
 
For the most part a 500 Wh battery wouldn't do much.
But what one guy did was feed HV DC from his EV into a hybrid. It could start small tools, not large ones. 48V worth of automotive starting batteries and it could run large tools. Battery supplies the 5x starting surge.

For OP, like GXM said we've heard IQ8 doesn't play nice with other grid-forming inverters. Either buy Enphase system, or replace microinverters with RSD boxes, design HV strings based on voltage and orientation/shading, and connect those to the PV input of SolArk or another.

With SolArk, you can use LiFePO4 battery larger enough for the surges, or smaller AGM. My system (SMA) has battery sized to make it through one night. You can get away with very small battery if only powering loads when the sun shines.

Alternatively, leave the IQ8 grid-tie system alone and install a separate small hybrid with PV, battery, grid input for critical load backup.
 
To be on the safe side, the battery should be able to handle the full power of the solar array without damage.
4 KW into a 0.5 KWH battery is 8C of charge power. That is too much for most batteries. What would you use for a charge controller and inverter? The Victron stuff can be made to allow full power to loads like an inverter, but limit current to the battery to a lower level if the load is not on. But that is not a cheap system to set up.
 
Except I think a cheap hybrid, which has ports for both PV and battery, should be able to limit battery charging.
SolArk of course has HV DC bus. MPPT from PV feeds that bus, inverter runs off it, and battery is connected by bidirectional DC/DC.

With AGM, 5C is even mentioned in my data sheet. OK at least briefly or within temperature and voltage limits. So good for load dump in my AC coupled system (not sure if my battery inverter will exceed programmed battery voltage or let AC voltage go out of control.)
 
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