Article - How an entire columbus neighborhood is getting free solar panels

[justinm001]

Nope, thousands

Please break it down. I did above and can account for 850. Where's the rest.

 

[MajicDiver]

Please break it down. I did above and can account for 850. Where's the rest.

You stated you can buy a 25’ pole for $800 and thus the utility should be able to install it for $850? That ludicrous.
1. The have to buy the pole, store the pole (and maintain a place to store it) protect the pole from theft and damage.
2. Someone has to plan the job and deal with the notifications that must occur. Someone has to load and transport the pole, remove power and fiber and other stuff from the pole and put back, deal with pole support and difficult access to the install location, which may need planning.
3. It has to be scheduled with multiple different labor and craftsmen of differing skills, crews have to arrive at work, conduct required prejob briefs and travel to site and do that again in many cases.
4. A wood pole must be maintained throughout its life. An example being that periodically it’s frequently necessary to place preservation patches at the ground line area to deal with and prevent rot, and it’s a battle to stay ahead of the epa repeatedly banning those products as they become available.
5. In the utility environment it is typical that for a person you see actually working there are a minimum of 2/3 somewhere who are incapable of doing the work but for one reason or another are required to be retained as employees- they must be made to both feel like and appear to be doing something of value, otherwise there will be endless litigation, which occurs anyway a lot, but you have to try.

It goes on and on and on

 

[justinm001]

You stated you can buy a 25’ pole for $800 and thus the utility should be able to install it for $850? That ludicrous.
1. The have to buy the pole, store the pole (and maintain a place to store it) protect the pole from theft and damage.
2. Someone has to plan the job and deal with the notifications that must occur. Someone has to load and transport the pole, remove power and fiber and other stuff from the pole and put back, deal with pole support and difficult access to the install location, which may need planning.
3. It has to be scheduled with multiple different labor and craftsmen of differing skills, crews have to arrive at work, conduct required prejob briefs and travel to site and do that again in many cases.
4. A wood pole must be maintained throughout its life. An example being that periodically it’s frequently necessary to place preservation patches at the ground line area to deal with and prevent rot, and it’s a battle to stay ahead of the epa repeatedly banning those products as they become available.
5. In the utility environment it is typical that for a person you see actually working there are a minimum of 2/3 somewhere who are incapable of doing the work but for one reason or another are required to be retained as employees- they must be made to both feel like and appear to be doing something of value, otherwise there will be endless litigation, which occurs anyway a lot, but you have to try.

It goes on and on and on

I said wood poles are 500 and 850 installed, and that's retail for a pole at a store where they wouldn't need to store or maintain.

They just added over 20 poles down the street for a new neighborhood. Someone dropped off 20+ poles every 20ft or whatever, they sat on the ground for a couple weeks then just the other day 2 trucks with 4 guys came around 11am and we're done by 4pm. One pair had a truck with a drill then the other raised it and had a bucket to wire up. Seems they have a few more spots around as I see poles on the ground in other spots.

1 pole sure I can see it costing a few grand but when you have a crew installing poles all day everyday like an electric company in a growing town would have it can't cost more than a grand.

Sure there's project managers and all that but they should be scheduling jobs all day everyday all around. That's like saying to build a 300k house it costs 5 million in GCs to manage. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[Supervstech]

Please break it down. I did above and can account for 850. Where's the rest.

I have a solution.
You get the equipment, and charge 850 for poles.
You will make a killing...

 

[justinm001]

I have a solution.
You get the equipment, and charge 850 for poles.
You will make a killing...

There's tons of companies that do this. The electric company makes the killing

 

[MajicDiver]

There's tons of companies that do this. The electric company makes the killing

So buy their stock then…..

 

[justinm001]

So buy their stock then…..

I think you're missing it. A lot of time the electric company subs out work so they only need to pay say 700 or 800 instead of using their guys that are 850-900. I'm also sure there's storm chaser emergency guys that are a grand or so.

Id love to be able to install my own grid and station and all that but can't unless it's a coop which is non profit. It's not like people can take over utilities in a city.

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

It's not like people can take over utilities in a city.

We can dream...

 

[Supervstech]

There's tons of companies that do this. The electric company makes the killing

Let's see, a $500,000 boom truck, factor in depretiation over 5 years, maintenance of the vehicle, training and certifications, insurance on the hazardous job, workmans comp, ppe annually, high voltage insulator shields for the conductors, all the various tools for the horizontals, and transformer mounts, idk, what else...

Sure... $50 over cost of the pole sounds fair.

The complete stupidity of the general public for the costs of doing a simple project is astounding.

I am a basic HVAC/electrical contractor.
My daily expenses before i turn a single dollar is around 1700 a day...


I cannot IMAGINE what a power pole company daily $is... it is one HELLUVA lot more than $1700 i can assure you.

 

[Supervstech]

I moved the topic into the chit chat forum because it is no longer discussing solar, and has moved into political topics.

 

[justinm001]

Let's see, a $500,000 boom truck, factor in depretiation over 5 years, maintenance of the vehicle, training and certifications, insurance on the hazardous job, workmans comp, ppe annually, high voltage insulator shields for the conductors, all the various tools for the horizontals, and transformer mounts, idk, what else...

Sure... $50 over cost of the pole sounds fair.

The complete stupidity of the general public for the costs of doing a simple project is astounding.

I am a basic HVAC/electrical contractor.
My daily expenses before i turn a single dollar is around 1700 a day...


I cannot IMAGINE what a power pole company daily $is... it is one HELLUVA lot more than $1700 i can assure you.

I estimated 3k/mo for the truck which is 250k over 7 years. Idk the cost of a full electric bucket truck but used costs for a similar truck for tree companies. Spread out over 40hr week is only $16/hr. Even a 500k truck would only be $30/hr.

I'm CIO for quite a few companies and some have a bunch of HD equipment and I get their main schedules and est costs. Also averaged 100/hr per man hour to cover all the additional gear and training and such.

I highly doubt they're paying close to retail for poles and retail is still 600+. I estimate 500 leaving 350 for labor, material and equipment.

Utility companies don't have nearly the expenses of a normal business, no sales, marketing or most anything else

 

[Hedges]

I cannot IMAGINE what a power pole company daily $is... it is one HELLUVA lot more than $1700 i can assure you.

PG&E gave me an estimate of $150k to hang a 3-phase 50kVA transformer and run wires 200' to their 12kV lines two poles way.

They said it was a 2-day job for two trucks/crews including $25k per day per truck.
The guy who came to do "cut and swing" from old split-phase service entrance to new said the wood poles couldn't hold the weight of such a transformer, 1500# I think he said. I would have expected 600# based on the pad mount ones I've bought.

 

[Supervstech]

PG&E gave me an estimate of $150k to hang a 3-phase 50kVA transformer and run wires 200' to their 12kV lines two poles way.

They said it was a 2-day job for two trucks/crews including $25k per day per truck.
The guy who came to do "cut and swing" from old split-phase service entrance to new said the wood poles couldn't hold the weight of such a transformer, 1500# I think he said. I would have expected 600# based on the pad mount ones I've bought.

Crazy, i see wood poles all over charlotte holding transformers supplying zeveral houses... average 200A panel is what, 48Kva? If supplying a dozen houses, them pole cans gotta be capable of 100kVA... no?

 

[MajicDiver]

A lot of time the electric company subs out work so they only need to pay say 700 or 800 instead of using their guys that are 850-900.

Not correct, in general the utility hires contractors to do the work of the utility’s own employees who have learned they don’t have to work to get paid, as I discussed earlier in this thread. I’ve played on both sides,

 

[justinm001]

Not correct, in general the utility hires contractors to do the work of the utility’s own employees who have learned they don’t have to work to get paid, as I discussed earlier in this thread. I’ve played on both sides,

I'm super interested in seeing invoices of these electrical contractors and their rates. I'm gonna text my mayor and have him send me invoices of anything similar.

 

[Hedges]

Crazy, i see wood poles all over charlotte holding transformers supplying zeveral houses... average 200A panel is what, 48Kva? If supplying a dozen houses, them pole cans gotta be capable of 100kVA... no?

My other property, I thought my 200A service and 4 other neighbors were fed by the 50kVA in vault in my front yard. That thing is HUGE (compared to the 25kVA I picked up to play with, size of a 5 gallon paint can.) They can probably actually handle much more than rating, for quite a while.
Watched a guy tracing wires, and he said the 5 wires fan out to other boxes, those fan out to various houses.

The transformer may only match wattage of one house. For my Oakland property, I'm not sure even that. After I confirmed I wasn't adding loads at this time, just upgrading panel from 100A to 200A, PG&E determined I could do that and they wouldn't upgrade anything.

Probably original service was 30A. There is a box with six screw-in fuses in the garage.

Not sure, transformer could be 25kVA not 50kVA around other side of block feeding me. (one pole down from me isn't feeding me.)

You can see my house (pink) and pole pig to the right which supplies neighbors but not me.

Cost for utility transformer installation?

What has the utility company charged you for a transformer installation or upgrade on their side of the meter? How flexible/negotiable were they? I have a house in Oakland, CA. with 100A service. To support the PV install I want to do, and for more loads like electric heat (presently all gas)...

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