diy solar

diy solar

Burnt up junction box

Side Note:

I had been back and forth about whether to setup my system in my basement or in the detached garage. After seeing this, I'm glad I decided to keep the system in the garage. It could have been bad as that junction box is mounted on a 2x4 and just inches under the wooden stairway :oops:
 
Wago’s sucks!!! Unless you’re using for low current applications and solar ain’t low current. What till summer time and see your wago’s scream for mercy as your home catches on fire..
 
And yet, lever style connectors are used for AC wiring in SMA's inverters, like the 30 kW TriPower (36A).
If properly designed and tested/listed, they perform fine. I think these are a lot larger than the Wago.

www.electricpoint.com

Wago 221-613 41A Compact 3-Way Lever Terminal Block 6mm 30 Pack

WE WONT BE BEATEN ON PRICEWe regularly check our prices against our competitors, to ensure we can offer you the best deal possible.
www.electricpoint.com www.electricpoint.com


1675104436222.png
 
John Frum said:
I Just tried it again.
10 awg with ferrule into Wago 221-613.
I was able to get the ferrule into the levernut.
It bottomed out on the insulating boot so that the conductor barely made contact with the busbar.
I could close the lever but the resulting connection didn't pass the pull test.
It required very little effort to pull the wire out of the levernut.
I think we have a plausible scenario.
Click to expand...

That makes a lot of sense and is likely the cause of the problem, thanks for doing the test ;)

Regarding the video the two wires into one ferrule is a bit of a bodge and only works with the example they used (2x0.75 mm² into a 1.5 mm² ferrule) and I can't recommend doing that. I actually asked Wago about the ferrule usage in the 221 series and they said it's ok and that the connector keeps its ratings (namely the max current one) so that's confirmed.


sirslayer said:
Wago’s sucks!!! Unless you’re using for low current applications and solar ain’t low current. What till summer time and see your wago’s scream for mercy as your home catches on fire..
Click to expand...

I don't agree, Wagos are awesome as they remove the problem of the screw getting loose with time with the classic terminal block. And multiple people did multiple destructive tests and Wagos always are equal or slightly better than screw terminal blocks.

The one type of conenctor that sucks, but like really sucks, is the push-in ones. You can't use them with stranded wire but even with solid wires they sucks as they don't grab them good enough and you can have a bad contact, unlike with lever connectors which allow zero force insertion and a super good bite (you'll break the wire before you can pull it out in most cases).
 
sirslayer said:
Wago’s sucks!!! Unless you’re using for low current applications and solar ain’t low current. What till summer time and see your wago’s scream for mercy as your home catches on fire..
Click to expand...
Oh no, i wouldnt say they suck. They are a godsend for their intended application.
Although EVERY testing session i have ever seen shows they have close to 10 times the resistance as a twist wirenut, when installed properly...
The issue comes in when wirenuts are NOT installed properly. It is a skill many dont have, and wago makes a decent splice easier for the untrained.
Eevblog did a video testing them... pretty revealing.
 
Small update: Wago sent me technical data from their labs regarding the ferrule stuff, I attached it to this post ;)
 

Attachments

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BiduleOhm said:
Small update: Wago sent me technical data from their labs regarding the ferrule stuff, I attached it to this post ;)
Click to expand...
Seems that they allow specific rated ferrules for highly corrosive atmospheres* and further reading they specifically state that you should not combine two conductors into one. This is not an endorsement for everyone to use ferrules with Wagos.

Thanks for the update.

* Thinking about it I would not use a Wago in a highly corrosive atmosphere. Ferrule or no.
 
Last edited:
I only use Wago's in fixture wiring. (Very low current)
I have had to cut too many out that failed. (Melted)
I'm an old electrician, and use what I have come to trust. (Wire nuts)
Aside from that, all PV wiring should be in metal raceways and enclosues inside of buildings. The romex and PVC is a safety issue.
 
I've found some ferrules designed to take two wires. Seemed like a big plus for some wiring installations, where terminal of a breaker or the like can't take two wires. But I have not seen "UL Listed" mentioned for any of them.

s-l1600.jpg


This one shows UL, but I want to see that on a data sheet.


Two wires in one screw terminal has always worked for me. But to skirt the code, what I've been doing is either using split-bolt to join wires just outside the terminal (of a breaker), or stripping insulation off middle of a wire and feeding it through a screw terminal (e.g. of a knife switch) to provide two ends.
 
timselectric said:
I only use Wago's in fixture wiring. (Very low current)
I have had to cut too many out that failed. (Melted)
I'm an old electrician, and use what I have come to trust. (Wire nuts)
Aside from that, all PV wiring should be in metal raceways and enclosues inside of buildings. The romex and PVC is a safety issue.
Click to expand...
Yes, I had the UF wire laying around and with the cost of wiring wanted to save some $. Running raceway/conduit would require my electrician (more $). But, I understand MC cable can also be used. I will probably do one of those though. As I don't want to risk a fire again...
 
Mattb4 said:
Seems that they allow specific rated ferrules for highly corrosive atmospheres* and further reading they specifically state that you should not combine two conductors into one. This is not an endorsement for everyone to use ferrules with Wagos.

Thanks for the update.

* Thinking about it I would not use a Wago in a highly corrosive atmosphere. Ferrule or no.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's why I posted the document, they're compatible with ferrules but it shouldn't be the default usage, it's only for special cases.
 
MurphyGuy said:
There's a video on youtube showing what garbage wago connectors are. They used a thermal camera to show them heating up because of the poor connection they make.

Click to expand...
Still best to use "Scotchloc" (now called something else) if you can find a store that sells them the old-fashioned way (per each) and have the brains to use them correctly. There have been problems with them that started with the people that insisted on twisting the wires with the original ones -- it didn't work. I read the directions and loved them.

NEVER use wire nuts with Aluminum wire!!!

 
Interesting to see the data sheet lists all combinations of 0 ... n solid and 0 ... n stranded that can be connected.


SMA specifically says not to use wire nuts (page 36). Which was my reason for becoming interested in the Ideal set-screw connectors with wire-nut style insulating caps. I've now used these by the hundreds, a few upgrading my PV strings, but many for bench setups at work and at home.

 
AC or DC makes no difference for the conductor.
Amperage rating is based on the type and size of the conductor.
Voltage rating is based on the thickness and type of insulation around the conductor.
 
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