Can you “trick” rapid shutdown devices to allow solar production for mini split during power outage?

[onokai]

The tigo control is fed by dc, usually from an ac source adapter https://assets-global.website-files.com/5fad551d7419c7a0e9e4aba4/64db95d1d8f20bcfea15ed4a_TS4-A CCA TAP QSG 002-00147-00 1.3 20230728 - EN.pdf

See under install in the lower left corner. So if you just run 12v dc in from a battery instead of the ac adapter the unit is happy.

I thought it had to be 24v-ish in which would be more of a pain to set up in my case, but 12v is simple.

Ok so in the photo is my tigo power supply-. You are saying that the small box on the left is a step down transformer that knocks the feed thru the breaker on right to some DC voltage (your link did not work). I can meter this to find out if its 24 or 48 v.. For my application (no inspectors ever as I'm a solar pirate I was only using this system to see thru the Tigo web site my panel outputs . I gave up on that when I found out once the activated system shuts power off during unitlity blackouts which is when I want power. I can amnnually shut it down during a wildire (ground mount 24 panels array) Can you get your link working?

 

[Ottox]

Note: that is what the other forum member was saying and how I’m planning to set up my system. I don’t currently have it ordered yet!

 

[onokai]

This is what mine looks like-I forgot to add this to my post above

 

[onokai]

It appears to me that 110v or 24v can power it up. Once poewered up it can never be set back to off and needs power forever.. The tigos optimze without this system turned on ,you just cannot see whats up on the web which is what I have been doing for years now .

 

[Ottox]

Interesting. So when your ccs loses power the optimizers don’t go into rapid shutdown? I’m trying to plan a system that requires RSS for permitting but still want it to work when the grid goes down. It seemed like switching to dc direct battery power would keep the system working in the event of grid loss

 

[onokai]

Interesting. So when your ccs loses power the optimizers don’t go into rapid shutdown? I’m trying to plan a system that requires RSS for permitting but still want it to work when the grid goes down. It seemed like switching to dc direct battery power would keep the system working in the event of grid loss

I think a call to Tigo is needed to get to the bottom of this. In theory you could supply the CCS with solar power/battery power and never have it shut down.The device is made for firefighters I belive to access the roof after power shuts off and have a dead system. That said if you have grid tied system like I do any power outage will shut it down. Thats why I never fied mine up. I only wanted to optimize panels for shade reasons

 

[Hedges]

These days most GT PV inverters transmit keep-alive for RSD.
In the case of SMA, they require 5V from the PV string, so a certain number of RSD modules in series, to power the transmitter. Others might get it from AC or from a battery.

Some inverters like SolArk provide power to an external transmitter.

Here's Tigo's transmitter. You could use it to wake up the string, but you don't want it and an inverter's internal transmitter both operating at the same time, might interfere.

Tigo RSS Transmitter

The Tigo RSS (Rapid Shutdown System) Transmitter completes the cost-effective rapid shutdown system architecture when paired with Tigo's UL-certified Fire Safety solutions - including the TS4-A-F (add-on), TS4-A-2F (add-on for two modules). The RSS Transmitter sends a signal via PLC (Power Line...

www.tigoenergy.com

 

[onokai]

I do not have that part in my tigo system that I'm aware of

 

[Hedges]

What inverter do you have, does it have transmitter built in? Or does Tigo include transmitter in another of the devices that you use?

I got one, and Tigo RSD, for use with Sunny TriPower (which has capacitor discharge function but not keep-alive transmitter).
That inverter was rejected by PG&E, will use SB -41 series instead. That does have transmitter, but would need 8 or 9 Tigo RSD (at 0.6V each) to wake up. I'm considering injecting DC from an isolated supply into MPPT C of the inverter. Or using the Tigo transmitter, it's supply powered from AC to the inverter.

I may use the transmitter + RSD units if I move PV panels of an older model system from ground to roof.

 

[Ottox]

These days most GT PV inverters transmit keep-alive for RSD.
In the case of SMA, they require 5V from the PV string, so a certain number of RSD modules in series, to power the transmitter. Others might get it from AC or from a battery.

Some inverters like SolArk provide power to an external transmitter.

Here's Tigo's transmitter. You could use it to wake up the string, but you don't want it and an inverter's internal transmitter both operating at the same time, might interfere.

Tigo RSS Transmitter

The Tigo RSS (Rapid Shutdown System) Transmitter completes the cost-effective rapid shutdown system architecture when paired with Tigo's UL-certified Fire Safety solutions - including the TS4-A-F (add-on), TS4-A-2F (add-on for two modules). The RSS Transmitter sends a signal via PLC (Power Line...

www.tigoenergy.com

I don’t know if this one works with the optimizers ts4-a-o or if it’s just for the rapid shutdown only devices

 

[Ottox]

My idea was AC grid —> 24 VDC charger —> 24vdc battery —> Tigo CCA. That way if the grid goes down the CCA is still alive and keeping the modules up and optimized for feeding the EG4 hybrid split.

If the CCA works on 12vdc then I can have a cheaper setup, or choose double the capacity battery. Everything I read said 24vdc though.

 

[Hedges]

It would appear the systems with monitoring use a different keep-alive (possibly signal, possibly just hardware combined with the others.)
Does your RSD switch wire to any of your hardware?
Do installation instructions have you disable keep-alive of a Tigo unit where inverter provides that, or vice versa?

"
MLPE: Tigo TS4-A-O, -M, or -S
Tigo TS4 units are connected to each module. Customers can use any combination of the following to maximize returns for their particular site:‍

TS4-A-O
Optimization

TS4-A-S
Safety

TS4-A-M
Monitoring
"

TS4 Flex MLPE | Tigo Energy

Get more from your PV system with Tigo’s TS4 platform of MLPE (Module Level Power Electronics). Choose the equipment and features that you want. Discover Tigo.

www.tigoenergy.com

But that only includes "S" (Safety, RSD + monitoring), not "F" (Fire, RSD only), implying the "F" may have different keep-alive from O, S, M

"

The Tigo family of Flex MLPE​

TS4-A-O​

FUNCTIONS

Optimization

Monitoring

Rapid Shutdown
REQUIRED
CCA + TAP
DESCRIPTION
Increase energy production with shaded & mismatched modules up to 700W
More details

TS4-A-S​

FUNCTIONS

Monitoring

Rapid Shutdown
REQUIRED
CCA + TAP
DESCRIPTION
Enables monitoring and rapid shutdown for modules up to 700W
More details

TS4-A-M​

FUNCTIONS

Monitoring
REQUIRED
CCA + TAP
DESCRIPTION
Enables robust module-level monitoring
More details

TS4-A-F​

FUNCTIONS

Rapid Shutdown
REQUIRED
RSS Transmitter
DESCRIPTION
Dedicated rapid shutdown device for 1 solar module up to 700W
More details

TS4-A-2F​

FUNCTIONS

Rapid Shutdown
REQUIRED
RSS Transmitter
DESCRIPTION
Dedicated rapid shutdown device for 2 solar modules
More details
"

 

[ginmtb]

I called Tigo and have a ticket setup. It is 15 days old, I just replied to see if they came up with an answer. In the phone conversation the tech felt like it should work.

Maybe I should just run a test myself…

 

[ginmtb]

@onokai in your photos the black/grey rectangle is the step down transformer - I run 120V into it and then it converts to DC which runs to the green box (CCA).

I plan on running pigtails for the input side of the step down transformer. I’ll use wago connectors on the pigtails. Then I can easily swap between the 120V AC coming in and my ecoflow 120V plug outlet - I can create a plug like you did.

 

[ginmtb]

Hey they replied!

“In lieu of installing something automatic, I think that in the rare instances of a grid outage, the simplest solution would be to manually connect a 12 V DC battery to the CCA input, thus enabling the optimizers to power your mini-split system.“

 

[Hedges]

One of my thoughts has been a 12V PV panel. Maybe better add a voltage regulator.

 

[onokai]

What inverter do you have, does it have transmitter built in? Or does Tigo include transmitter in another of the devices that you use?

I got one, and Tigo RSD, for use with Sunny TriPower (which has capacitor discharge function but not keep-alive transmitter).
That inverter was rejected by PG&E, will use SB -41 series instead. That does have transmitter, but would need 8 or 9 Tigo RSD (at 0.6V each) to wake up. I'm considering injecting DC from an isolated supply into MPPT C of the inverter. Or using the Tigo transmitter, it's supply powered from AC to the inverter.

I may use the transmitter + RSD units if I move PV panels of an older model system from ground to roof.

SolArk 12k from 2020

 

[onokai]

What inverter do you have, does it have transmitter built in? Or does Tigo include transmitter in another of the devices that you use?

I got one, and Tigo RSD, for use with Sunny TriPower (which has capacitor discharge function but not keep-alive transmitter).
That inverter was rejected by PG&E, will use SB -41 series instead. That does have transmitter, but would need 8 or 9 Tigo RSD (at 0.6V each) to wake up. I'm considering injecting DC from an isolated supply into MPPT C of the inverter. Or using the Tigo transmitter, it's supply powered from AC to the inverter.

I may use the transmitter + RSD units if I move PV panels of an older model system from ground to roof.

12 k SolArk from 2020

 

[onokai]

I have zero reason now to activate my system thru the CCA. The optimizers are working and thats all I need them to do, I never need rapid shut down. If I have a wildfire I will go to ground mount and to solarc and throw the off switches..We get power outags about avering 7 times a year herd in the boonies.