Changes are coming to the Solar Industry

[rodrick]

Good plan, give up everything you've built here to the people who want to take it from you and then move to another state where you will do nothing to prevent them doing the same thing there in 5-10 years. Excellent plan, that will definitely win in the long run.

I too live in WA and am super excited for the new gas tax... (sarcasm).

when a state loses its population it’s the peoples way of voting with their feet and wallets

 

[Zwy]

Solar is Changing !
Yes, many things are normalizing and moving towards "Set Standards" which everyone will comply with... is that wrong ? NOPE, happens to everything over time.... It comes down to safety systems, communications & interoperability... It's the bumpy path forward just like any tech out there. Right now the Solar Technologies are somewhat of a Wild West free for all and the result is equipment that does not interact, varied designs & specs, some equipment which can be downright dangerous.

Right now you can buy prebuilt rack mount batteries with RS485/CanBus etc... BUT they are not all compatible with each other or even teh Inverter systems tht they are connected too.... Would it not be a good thing to be able to buy an SOK, Ampertime, Victron and say a Seplos Battery Pack and be able to plug them all in, interconnect them and have them work and interact using teh same protocols ? CAN'T NOW unless you have a Kludge in between and even then it's a "maybe".

Look at all the AIO's out there that can be paralleled BUT you cannot intermix models let alone brands ! They all have their own proprietary specs and they do not have to be compatible with each other.... Makes things far more complicated than nescessary....

Just like Computer Technology had to be standardized and made interoperable so that all computers can communicate, exchange info and have equal capabilities, it has to happen for RE Technologies as well.

Won't happen easily, the fleecing of the population must continue. Back in the day, you purchased a software program and owned it. As operating systems changed with more computing power, the software would become obsolete. I own a laptop that runs Win98 and is dedicated to a device because that device only runs on Win98. Bill Gates figured out that there is more money in forcing everyone to use his operating system and make upgrades every few years in order to keep selling software.

It's all a big money grab, software has now become subscription based, have to keep that revenue stream coming in. I've seen people involved with marketing a product "volunteer" for a position on SAE boards that set the standard for new equipment and have the standard (enforced by the EPA) use their product on every piece of equipment manufactured after a certain date. One was even a company that holds a monopoly for their product.

What I have seen with many standards and regulations has been to enact and enforce those standards and regulations for the benefit of specific entities. Some standards and regulations are good, some have only one purpose; to enrich those that can benefit from the standards and regulation.

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As for migration of people, that will happen on an increasing scale, be aware of it... All the places running out of Potable Water is already driving some movement and it will only increase. Living creatures NEED water, without it life will perish. No Water = No Farming = no food stuffs to feed the masses and what is available will only go up in cost which creates another set of issues... Welcome to the 21st Century !

Water is still cheap in such places, because laws and regulations were enacted to keep the money train rolling for those that would benefit from it. Look at the dams built on the CO River and how CA acquired that water. Wasn't exactly fair to people downstream was it?

 

[Skagit]

when a state loses its population it’s the peoples way of voting with their feet and wallets

That's a fair argument I suppose, I just don't think it works

 

[AHTrimble]

That why we’re getting out of these states that want to control everything. right now we’re looking .50 cents a gallon both gas and diesel tax jan1 thanks to our governor. thank god my nearest power is 10 miles away from our retirement property

We relocated to the "nowhere land" and love it!
The people in our area are wonderful and very Constitutionally minded.
Unfortunately, outside of the area, and the state in general, are not...they love government and redistributing resources.

 

[rodrick]

That's a fair argument I suppose, I just don't think it works

Well we can hope it works because what’s going on in the Seattle area and Olympia sure isn’t

 

[OzSolar]

Water is still cheap in such places, because laws and regulations were enacted to keep the money train rolling for those that would benefit from it. Look at the dams built on the CO River and how CA acquired that water. Wasn't exactly fair to people downstream was it?

Quite the history behind cheap water, particularly in places where people really *shouldn't be living in the first place. I'm about 3/4 of the through the book Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner. Highly recommend.

*edited

 

[JJJJ]

I liked Steves perspective on technology. Years ago I cut my teeth as a programmer on a network that was a new concept. Technology did not play well with each other. Everything cost a fortune.

A smart phone today has more computing power and interactivity than these early computers at a fraction of the cost.

In time we will have technology that is hot swappable from different manufacturers.

Those vendors who don’t get on board will quickly become expensive paperweights.

 

[Ampster]

More importantly, while rules for installation of solar were eventually relaxed to allow owner-installation, installation of ESS is limited to licensed electricians.

I self installed a solar system over ten years ago im Southern California and am not aware that it was ever more strict in California. I am having plans prepared as we speak for an owner builder permit for an ESS in a County in Northern California. I am not aware of any current limitation to pull that permit by a licensed electrician. I do see that both fire department restrictions and UL specs becoming more strict. For that reason my design includes an outside enclosure for the batteries.

 

[fafrd]

I self installed a solar system over ten years ago im Southern California and am not aware that it was ever more strict in California. I am having plans prepared as we speak for an owner builder permit for an ESS in a County in Northern California. I am not aware of any current limitation to pull that permit by a licensed electrician. I do see that both fire department restrictions and UL specs becoming more strict. For that reason my design includes an outside enclosure for the batteries.

It may be that the prohibition against owner installation of ESS is only for SGIP incentives and not for permitting and inspection.

I’ve heard from other members whose municipalities have allowed them to permit and owner-install an ESS, so it may only be if you try register with PG&E to get a rebate on your ESS or battery that you are likely to run into this hairball against owner-installation…

‘Over 10 years ago’ is not specific enough and likely refers to the period after rules for owner-installation of solar had relaxed.

By the time I self-installed my system in 2016, the state had pushed municipalities in California to support the ‘Simple Plan’ making DIY solar planning and installation even easier.

I’ve been told by ‘old timers’ who added solar that they were required to use a licensed electrician (partly because that was before the advent of Microinverters and all solar involved high-voltage DC wiring.

Looking at this, residential solar in California has been around since the late 70s: https://sandiegocountysolar.com/short-history-residential-solar-california/

The restrictions against DIY installation those ‘old timers’ told me about may have been related to regulations for high-voltage DC wiring in place around the time NEM was first introduced in 1996 or could possibly have been associated with incentives offered by the California Solar Initiative in 2007:

‘Solar in California grew dramatically with the introduction of the California Solar Initiative on January 1, 2007. This rebate program initially incentivized solar at a high rate, when solar was expensive.’

 

[Ampster]

It may be that the prohibition against owner installation of ESS is only for SGIP incentives and not for permitting and inspection.

I have heard some people have done self installs but the SGIP paperwork was difficult. I have not seen anything that says it is prohibited. Have you seen such a rule anywhere? All three IOUs process SGIP applications on behalf of the SGIP program. It doesn't matter what happened in the seventies since SGIP funding has only been around since 2001 and was modified in 2018 to include households that were at risk. That time frame may be what appeared to be a relaxation of the rules since until 2018 residential customers did not generally qualify before then anyway.

‘Over 10 years ago’ is not specific enough and likely refers to the period after rules for owner-installation of solar had relaxed

Just because you have repeated your statement, that the rules have been relaxed does not mean that the rules were more difficult or less relaxed. The first solar permit I pulled for thermal solar was 1979 and my first PV solar was 2011. I have been pulling owner builder permits since 1979 and I can tell you that as far as I know there has never been a restriction on those permits in the AHJs where I have done construction. Since there are hundreds of AHJs in California one would have to do a pretty comprehensive study to make any kind of acurate statement implying that the rules were more stringent , unless one has actual factual information for a meaningful number of those AHJs.