Changes are coming to the Solar Industry

[Alkaline]

is any of this going to matter for RV/Boat use? Pretty sure you don't need UL for these right?

 

[fafrd]

is any of this going to matter for RV/Boat use? Pretty sure you don't need UL for these right?

Victron is your Friend…

 

[Alkaline]

Victron is your Friend…

Certainly not my wallet's friend...

 

[svetz]

It's probably the new NEC rules:

https://www.ul.com/news/2020-nec-addresses-electrical-safety-what-code-officials-need-know

Section 706.5 no longer permits listing of individual components but instead requires that the complete ESS be listed. These revised requirements will assist authorities having jurisdiction (AHJs) with inspecting and approving ESS. As an example, NEC Section 90.7 identifies that inspection of factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment at the time of installation is unnecessary if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory such as UL.

Basically the markets are shifting towards AC batteries (a system of DC battery cells, sensors, control, inverter/charger) to get UL listed.

 

[timselectric]

is any of this going to matter for RV/Boat use? Pretty sure you don't need UL for these right?

None of this matters, unless you plan on getting an inspection. Which would be very rare, for a boat/RV installation.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

That why we’re getting out of these states that want to control everything. right now we’re looking .50 cents a gallon both gas and diesel tax jan1 thanks to our governor. thank god my nearest power is 10 miles away from our retirement property

Out of the USA or just certain states?

 

[toms]

Australia is moving towards not being able to get a certificate of occupancy (ie no building approval/ability to insure) unless you have a contract with an energy company.

The overwhelming majority of the population think this is a good thing.

There really is no long term hope for independent living in my country.

 

[Zwy]

Out of the USA or just certain states?

He is moving from WA to MT soon.

This will certainly be an interesting time in American history similar to the migration during the Great Depression as people moved cross country for opportunity. In this migration, people are moving from areas of high taxation, high regulation, high crime and social unrest to areas of lower taxation, lower regulation, lower crime and social unrest.

I already live in Timbuktu so none of those factors affected me to a certain degree. Do we have taxes, some regulation (no zoning in this county), fairly low crime (usually thieves are meth addicts) and social unrest? No, we don't. We get to live life fairly free from government control. We also passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing gun rights, have no permit required for concealed carry and will not lockdown again for a "pandemic".

 

[Nobodybusiness]

He is moving from WA to MT soon.

This will certainly be an interesting time in American history similar to the migration during the Great Depression as people moved cross country for opportunity. In this migration, people are moving from areas of high taxation, high regulation, high crime and social unrest to areas of lower taxation, lower regulation, lower crime and social unrest.

I already live in Timbuktu so none of those factors affected me to a certain degree. Do we have taxes, some regulation (no zoning in this county), fairly low crime (usually thieves are meth addicts) and social unrest? No, we don't. We get to live life fairly free from government control. We also passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing gun rights, have no permit required for concealed carry and will not lockdown again for a "pandemic".

NC used to be like that until the liberals who fouled up their own states flock to ours to do the same.

It’s like locust or cancer.

 

[Zwy]

A couple of months ago I had a conversation with a knowledgeable person in the ESS market and the Subject came up as to why battery companies are starting to jump into the Inverter Market and Vice Versa.

If you have not been following companies like Fortress Power are now starting to make their own Inverters and now Briggs & Stratton has bought out Simpliphi Batteries so they can couple the batteries to their new Inverters.

I am going to keep this short, so what I was told is that there are changes coming to the Industry. It seems like Solar has gotten the governments full attention and more rules and regulations are coming to every State. I am told that UL9540 is staring to be interpreted in a more specific way in that Battery and Inverters being certified to work together is being interpreted in a more literal way. Your Inverter must be UL certified to work with your battery and the two will only pass inspection if they are together. And I am told that this is not just a California thing.

BTW don't shoot the messenger, I am just as puzzled by this as you are. The person I spoke to did not have the time to go into to many details but he said there is more to this than he is willing to discuss and he said that I should expect to see more Tier 1 battery companies starting to sell Inverters under their brand name or merging with companies that make Inverters or vice versa. He did say that the days of mixing and matching components is going to slowly come to an end.

It is all about control of the population to fill the pockets of larger corporations. This has been planned for some time as government started the climate change agenda and will basically force people to accept green energy and a lower standard of living. The politicians get on board with it as they invest in companies at the forefront for personal gain. Oldest trick in politics.

If legislation and rules were really about "poor people's" ability to afford solar or to equalize the playing field, there would be more incentive to make solar and alternative energy affordable to the masses.

If a company would adopt the Henry Ford model concerning "solar for the masses", they could upend the whole plan of politicians profiting from regulation.

 

[Zwy]

NC used to be like that until the liberals who fouled up their own states flock to ours to do the same.

It’s like locust or cancer.

I told my parents several years ago, before covid, this will be time period where individual states will have to take back their sovereign power back from the federal government or the republic will be lost.

Government is most responsive at the local level. Do what you can to influence your governor and state legislature. Even run for office if necessary.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I told my parents several years ago, before covid, this will be time period where individual states will have to take back their sovereign power back from the federal government or the republic will be lost.

Government is most responsive at the local level. Do what you can to influence your governor and state legislature. Even run for office if necessary.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[fafrd]

It's probably the new NEC rules:

https://www.ul.com/news/2020-nec-addresses-electrical-safety-what-code-officials-need-know



Basically the markets are shifting towards AC batteries (a system of DC battery cells, sensors, control, inverter/charger) to get UL listed.

I think this is correct.

This is the approach Enphase pioneered and as long as they break open the link between solar and ESS, I’m all for it.

Solar has no need of sensors and a controller. Solar is a slave (to the sun).

An ESS does have a need of sensors and a controller.

So whether it’s in the box or an external Energy Meter, approving the combination of ESS & Smart Controller as one unit makes total sense.

The battery itself is secondary and just boils down to cost versus risk of someone adding a battery to the system that is hazardous.

With an HV ~400V+ battery, makes total sense.

With a 12V lead-acid battery, less so.

But in any case, whatever rules get determined by the battery itself is far less fundamental than what gets decided about the combination of ESS and Energy Meter / Cobttoller.

 

[curiouscarbon]

Solar energy was never truly about a healthier planet, it's about $money$.

for others, maybe this is true.

for myself, solar power is about f**king off from boring human politics and dealing with the sun directly. the sun just rises and sets, no BS.

it is still imperative that my off grid solar system presents a minimal risk of fire and harm to other people.

however, once that requirement is met, i will not submit to corporate lock-in or artificially enforced lack of interoperability.

solar ESS needs a USB.

 

[Kornbread]

for others, maybe this is true.

for myself, solar power is about f**king off from boring human politics and dealing with the sun directly. the sun just rises and sets, no BS.

it is still imperative that my off grid solar system presents a minimal risk of fire and harm to other people.

however, once that requirement is met, i will not submit to corporate lock-in or artificially enforced lack of interoperability.

solar ESS needs a USB.

To clarify, the comment I made was directed towards the politicians and organizations whom heavily influence/govern our society, profiteering considerably from fabricated laws created solely for their personal gain, commonly at the expense of those whom they serve.

 

[curiouscarbon]

To clarify, the comment I made was directed towards the politicians and organizations whom heavily influence/govern our society, profiteering considerably from fabricated laws created solely for their personal gain, commonly at the expense of those whom they serve.

indeed, that came through clear. for those groups, the technology seems to be seen as "just another opportunity to profiteer and grab influence/power"

which is sad.. people in those positions do not need to be that way, from my perspective.

how to convince, i do not know.

thanks for your perspectives!

 

[Johneb]

I don’t want to turn this into a political debate. Every citizen put down their beer, turned off the tv. Get on to your states website and find out who your Senator and Representative are. Both federal and State. Start calling, writing,texting and faxing your position on any of the bills before the state and federal congress. They do this stuff because the citizens have given them free rein. Enough of us start getting involved so they know we are paying attention and they are going to sit up and take notice. We are supposed to be free not governed to death. How about we start with these new regulations on solar?

 

[Steve_S]

FUNNY... since going OFF Grid and using "Green Energy" as I am solar powered my Quality of Life has Improved !
Not having to pay Big Power Corp the hostage fees for the grid connection puts ready cash in my pocket for other things.
Not having to worry about Utilities failing due to storms etc also gives peace of mind, is priceless. I have power when others don't. 17 grid fails in 2022 ! up here. some short and some not.
I do not have to worry about possilbe price increases for power - a non-starter and better for budgetting & planning. Zero external concerns.
Bottom Line, being offgrid with batteries = INDEPENDENCE & FREEDOM which is optimal for a free thinker & free human. Some just don't get that...

 

[Skagit]

That why we’re getting out of these states that want to control everything. right now we’re looking .50 cents a gallon both gas and diesel tax jan1 thanks to our governor. thank god my nearest power is 10 miles away from our retirement property

Good plan, give up everything you've built here to the people who want to take it from you and then move to another state where you will do nothing to prevent them doing the same thing there in 5-10 years. Excellent plan, that will definitely win in the long run.

I too live in WA and am super excited for the new gas tax... (sarcasm).

 

[Steve_S]

Solar is Changing !
Yes, many things are normalizing and moving towards "Set Standards" which everyone will comply with... is that wrong ? NOPE, happens to everything over time.... It comes down to safety systems, communications & interoperability... It's the bumpy path forward just like any tech out there. Right now the Solar Technologies are somewhat of a Wild West free for all and the result is equipment that does not interact, varied designs & specs, some equipment which can be downright dangerous.

Right now you can buy prebuilt rack mount batteries with RS485/CanBus etc... BUT they are not all compatible with each other or even teh Inverter systems tht they are connected too.... Would it not be a good thing to be able to buy an SOK, Ampertime, Victron and say a Seplos Battery Pack and be able to plug them all in, interconnect them and have them work and interact using teh same protocols ? CAN'T NOW unless you have a Kludge in between and even then it's a "maybe".

Look at all the AIO's out there that can be paralleled BUT you cannot intermix models let alone brands ! They all have their own proprietary specs and they do not have to be compatible with each other.... Makes things far more complicated than nescessary....

Just like Computer Technology had to be standardized and made interoperable so that all computers can communicate, exchange info and have equal capabilities, it has to happen for RE Technologies as well.

---

As for migration of people, that will happen on an increasing scale, be aware of it... All the places running out of Potable Water is already driving some movement and it will only increase. Living creatures NEED water, without it life will perish. No Water = No Farming = no food stuffs to feed the masses and what is available will only go up in cost which creates another set of issues... Welcome to the 21st Century !