DC Lighting plan

[tmbiv56]

Hi all.
Here is what I'm thinking...
I am planning to build a 2000 sq ft. house with several aging in place concepts.
One of those, is lighting color that is similar to sunlight. To achieve this, I am looking for high cri (90+) lights, and that allow the ability to control brightness and color. Since I will be totally off grid, and my power source is battery based (48v), I am thinking I could wire for DC lighting.
I have read a lot about the higher gauge wires for DC wiring.
My thoughts are to run 48v from a distribution panel to different areas of the house where lighting is needed. Probably 70' would be my longest run.
What I don't know, are the available ceiling lights which are DC and what their amperage requirements are. It seems like most are either 12 or 24 volts, but I prefer 24vdc. This being the case, I was thinking that I can group the light units in based on area or amperage limitations. But, at the end of each run, I am thinking about using a buck converter or LED driver to reduce the voltage to 24vdc.
I have about 1000 feet of 2 conductor 16gauge cable I thought I could use for this purpose.
Most of the calculators that I have used say I can get 10 - 12 amps on 16 gauge at 70' with a 25% voltage drop to 36volts.

I guess, I need a sanity check on the idea, and if feasible, then what companies sell ceiling task lights which accept 24vdc? (and which allow color control and brightness control?)

I'm a DIY'er and have no experience at house wiring except through my own shocking results.
Tom

 

[hwy17]

I think that DC lighting would restrict your ability to access most of the market for the lighting you're looking for, like Philips Hue which is only available for regular AC. And this sort of lighting doesn't draw much on an inverter anyway.

 

[Quattrohead]

Building new in 99% of the USA will require a whole bunch of permits and unfortunately DC lighting is not accounted for. You can't do it.

 

[Skinny76]

I would say if you are in a place you don't require permitting and are wanting DC lighting so you don't have to run the inverter 24/7, then go for it. Problem is those long runs and finding the dc voltage lights you are looking for outside of 12 volt. Definitely need a buck converter like you mentioned. Building my offgrid cottage on a travel trailer design. DC everywhere I can, even the refrigerator. Keeping AC wiring as you would normally have in a home also for television, air conditioning, water heater, etc....

 

[wpns]

several aging in place concepts

Bespoke technical solutions are going to come back to haunt you. When you are gone and your spouse can’t make the lights work, and the electrician shakes their head, what happens next?

Don’t get me wrong, the technical challenges are interesting, but if you are in it for the long term, think about the long term. #DoAsISayNotAsIDo (I’m on my second set of AC monitoring and control devices in 20 years, and have had about 10% failure rate on the new ones in under a year. )

 

[tmbiv56]

Building new in 99% of the USA will require a whole bunch of permits and unfortunately DC lighting is not accounted for. You can't do it.

I'll be in rural OK. The only permit I'll need is for septic. Electrical and plumbing are allowed to be done by homeowner.

I would say if you are in a place you don't require permitting and are wanting DC lighting so you don't have to run the inverter 24/7, then go for it. Problem is those long runs and finding the dc voltage lights you are looking for outside of 12 volt. Definitely need a buck converter like you mentioned. Building my offgrid cottage on a travel trailer design. DC everywhere I can, even the refrigerator. Keeping AC wiring as you would normally have in a home also for television, air conditioning, water heater, etc....

Bespoke technical solutions are going to come back to haunt you. When you are gone and your spouse can’t make the lights work, and the electrician shakes their head, what happens next?

Don’t get me wrong, the technical challenges are interesting, but if you are in it for the long term, think about the long term. #DoAsISayNotAsIDo (I’m on my second set of AC monitoring and control devices in 20 years, and have had about 10% failure rate on the new ones in under a year. )

These are the kinds of responses I was looking for from the experienced crowd. While the thoughts are rattling around in my head, I have thought of the effects of someone else trying to figure it all out unless I do an excellent job of installation and documentation. I have little experience in those tasks. I also need to make sure I follow enough regulations so that there aren't any roadblocks to sell the house if the need arises.
I saw a podcast by Matt Risinger of the Build Show about low voltage wiring in the house. His low voltage guy said that he thinks it is money well spent to run low voltage wiring everywhere you think it may be needed while the house is under construction because it's so much more expense to do it afterwards.

I think that DC lighting would restrict your ability to access most of the market for the lighting you're looking for, like Philips Hue which is only available for regular AC. And this sort of lighting doesn't draw much on an inverter anyway.

Ha. I'm finding that out. It's sad, but it's just the market. Since LED's are DC devices anyway.

Our goal is to make the house help us live better. That's the main focus. Whether it's with AC, or DC, or combination, will be determined by the best method to obtain the initial goal.

Thank you for your input. I'm leaning in the direction of main lighting to be common AC devices, with the addition of some emergency DC lighting.

Tom

 

[Bluedog225]

I’m 100% off grid at my cabin. I tried 12 V DC lighting for a while. It was fun at first. It makes all kinds of sense.

Then I bought an inverter and just use it. All the sudden things are simpler. I plug stuff and it just works. The 120 V stuff is cheaper. And often more reliable.

For example, a big flatscreen TV, 130 bucks at Costco. Done. As opposed to messing around with 12 V DC TVs.

Same for any appliance.

 

[65NW]

Big plus for dc led lights is no 120hz flicker. Very "calm" lighting if you are into that.

Try putting 4x 12v lights in series. If one goes out you will have to play the Christmas lights game of which one went bad. Or two 24v lights.
Each group will have to be on or off together.

 

[65NW]

I’m 100% off grid at my cabin. I tried 12 V DC lighting for a while. It was fun at first. It makes all kinds of sense.

Then I bought an inverter and just use it. All the sudden things are simpler. I plug stuff and it just works. The 120 V stuff is cheaper. And often more reliable.

For example, a big flatscreen TV, 130 bucks at Costco. Done. As opposed to messing around with 12 V DC TVs.

Same for any appliance.

I agree, I have mixed dc and ac in my cabin. My toyotomi heater is ac only but lights are lvdc. In the summer I can switch off my ac most of the time.
For cooking or heavier loads just switch it back on.

 

[pvdude]

We are on grid, and so have 120/240vac available.

For some rooms, I use 24vdc LED strips:

24 Volt LED Strip Lights | Super Bright LEDs

Our indoor and outdoor 24V LED strip lights are available in various single-color, white, and color-changing options. Easy to use and install!

www.superbrightleds.com

I buy used, industrial DIN rail 24vdc power supplies to run them.



Now they make 48vdc LED light strips:

48 Volt LED Strip Lights | Super Bright LEDs

Our line of indoor and outdoor 48V LED strip lights experiences less voltage drop and is an economical lighting solution. Easy to install and use!

www.superbrightleds.com

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

If this is new construction, there shouldn't be any problem running parallel systems ... wire the whole house for AC, and use appropriate plug design for that (all white plugs). This wiring system can be fed by solar, or later on, by grid (if someone else buys the place and rips out the solar, or abandons it ... you couldn't guess what a future buyer would do, anyway, once they've bought your place).

Add in a parallel system of DC wiring where appropriate, with appropriate plug design for that (all green plugs, or whatever). Ignore the "long dc runs" wire sizing issue, and just put multiple 12v batteries & battery chargers in centralized sections. AC wiring feeds battery chargers, which are AC plug-in devices. Solar feeds AC, or grid can feed it.

Really no problem, it's more of a puzzle to sort through. Just takes thinking and design effort, and you can have the best of both worlds. Bonus is emergency lighting or emergency 12v power.

I also like the idea of multiple solar reference voltages in areas, as others have done. 48v for powering the whole house's AC wiring system. 24v for the shop. 12v for spot locations, like the internet/cellular always-on comm center, or for the solar generator (hand truck or box) to get spot power anywhere, or camping. And while we're at it, don't forget your Ryobi-like tool/battery line ... we've got 18v & 40v batteries w/ inverters everywhere, and their chargers plug into the house AC wiring, fed by solar or backup generator.

Be creative ...

 

[dopeassjackson]

I'm in the process of wireing a cabin in 12v and 120v. I was originally going to run 12v lighting until I did a test install of them and found there not very bright and not very reliable. I was useing 4in recessed lights. Trying to use 12v lighting wasted quite a bit of time, money and material.

I have abandoned the whole 12v thing except for 12v/usb sockets for charging devices in each room. This is a new cabin and I dont want to go re doing the ceiling in each room because some shitty 12v lights sucked from the beginning.

120v is cheap, available and everyone knows it. If your worried about losses through a inverter just build a slightly bigger system. In the end I dont think the head aches are worth it.

I'm literally going to be putting in propane lights over 12v stuff. Way more reliable and actualy use no power.

 

[Q-Dog]

I have 12 volt track lights and pendants in my house that have been installed over 20 years. They use a transformer to go from 120AC to 12DC. I have powered them with a 12 volt battery during long power outages and I might get rid of the transformers and permanently rewire them to run directly from my solar battery.

But I recently found some 24v fixtures that I really like and might do that.

 

[David in nh]

i started doing 12v in my basement , after doing a small aera i decided that they were great for emergency back up with enough light to get down stairs and hook up generator .
but the cost to do full walk out basement to working levels of light would be more costly in wire and fixtures then the few watts lost in the converter by sticking with 110 ac

 

[Bluedog225]

I did a string of bistro lights with better quality Edison bulbs. Not the cheapo 12 volt strings ready made. A proper commercial string and a15 bases and 12 volt bulbs. Lit the whole room well. Easy to string up. Great backup lighting if that’s part of the goal. Low wattage so alligator clamps on the battery.

 

[tmbiv56]

Big plus for dc led lights is no 120hz flicker. Very "calm" lighting if you are into that.

Try putting 4x 12v lights in series. If one goes out you will have to play the Christmas lights game of which one went bad. Or two 24v lights.
Each group will have to be on or off together.

Great point!!!

 

[tmbiv56]

Now they make 48vdc LED light strips:

Thanks for that link!