Deye vs LVtopsun - Copy, clone, badge-engineering or something else.

[crossy]

A number of local sellers here in sunny Thailand are selling Deye SUN-5k-SG01LP1-EU for about 43,000Baht other sellers have the LVtopsun SUN-5K-SG03LP1 which looks to be the same/similar unit for about 38,000 Baht.

From the photos the units are "identical".

A few sellers are advertising the Deye at a lower price but when you read what they actually have it's the LVtopsun (sharp practice which means I wouldn't use them anyway).

The 5,000Baht price difference is about 160US.

Anyone know if these are actually just a badge-engineered Deye (maybe with firmware changes), a copy/clone or something else.

I suppose what I'm asking is, is there any risk going with the LVtopsun vs the Deye??

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

being that the Deye name is pretty much no longer available in the US I suggest you ping some of the Kiwi's and Aussie's on what they are seeing. I am in Japan and nothing is available unless you import it yourself.

 

[MisterB1959]

Sunsynk inverter in the UK sell Deye inverters under licence from what I understand - with potentially the same model numbers ..
Could it be old stock they are allowed to sell, with no more imports allowed except under licence?

 

[houseofancients]

Sunsynk inverter in the UK sell Deye inverters under licence from what I understand - with potentially the same model numbers ..
Could it be old stock they are allowed to sell, with no more imports allowed except under licence?

not quite....

Wrote a whole story here years ago....

short take away story is :

Keith started a company and engineered the first true hybrid long ago that produced the GTIL sun 1KW and GTIL sun 2 KW
in order to grow the business he sold that company and tech to a Aircon factory of epic proportions called Deye , provided he would keep the software patents and could start his own branch called Sunsynk that has exclusivity in SA and UK, Deye could service the rest of the world.
Together they presented their brand new 8 kw version at a tradeshow in Hongkong where it was noticed by a couple of gents out of texas who run a company called Sol-Ark, who came with a very good proposal to Deye, but demanded exclusivity for the US Split phase machines.
To make sure

so here we are

If your order is big enough, Deye allows you to have your name printed on the inverter, provided you take care of direct customer support, there is no change in firmware or look to the Deye main branch

for it's 3 main sellers there is an agreement of different gui to make the marketable in their own markets ,the firmware is the same, the components remain the same

 

[houseofancients]

to add...

there was a time where Deye was selling their split-phase inverter directly in the USA, that stopped about 3 years ago..
There are a few that still have the original 8 KW Deye split Phase inverter ( i think @Lt.Dan and @RayfromTX i know for sure, you can see them at his YT channel, raybuildcoolstuff)

Also a battery company (lion energy) in the USA was selling them integrated in their complete system, but there they lacked a display
You can find an example of that system on the YT channel of these guys ( red poppy ranch)

That all came to a halt when Sol-Ark agressively started imposing exclusivity but suing ( courtcase can be found here on the forum, main sentence from claim in that case is : Sol-ark has exclusive rights to distribute Deye inverters)

PORTABLE SOLAR, LLC dba SOL-ARK, a Texas limited liability company, Plaintiff, v. LION ENERGY, LLC, a Utah limited liability company, Defendant.

---

DALE A. KIMBALL UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE


MEMORANDUM DECISION AND ORDER DENYING WITHOUT PREJUDICE DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS FOR FAILURE TO JOIN AN INDISPENSABLE PARTY OR, IN THE ALTERNATIVE, TO JOIN A NECESSARY PARTY


DALE A. KIMBALL UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE


This matter is before the court on Defendant Lion Energy, LLC's (“Defendant”) motion to dismiss, pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 12(b)(7), (19), Plaintiff Portable Solar, LLC dba Sol-Ark's (“Plaintiff”) case for failure to join an indispensable party or, in the alternative, to join a necessary party. The court held a hearing on the motion on July 21, 2022. At the hearing, Defendant was represented by Matthew M. Boley. Plaintiff was represented by Christopher M. Von Maack and Christopher E. Thorsen. The court has carefully considered the materials submitted by the parties, the arguments made by counsel at the hearing, and the law and facts relating to this matter. Now being fully advised, the court renders the following Memorandum Decision and Order.


BACKGROUND


Plaintiff filed its Complaint in this case on January 10, 2022. In the Complaint, Plaintiff asserts that it develops, markets, and sells solar battery technology, including storage string inverter products, which connect to a series or ‘string' of solar panels and convert the power from Direct Current (DC) into Alternate Current (AC) electricity, and that it markets and sells its products across the United States, including in Utah County, Utah. Plaintiff also asserts that, in or about 2018, it entered into a Non-Compete Agreement with NingBo Deye Inverter Technology Co. Ltd. (“Deye”), and that, pursuant thereto, Plaintiff had exclusive rights in the United States and Canada (the “Territory”) to market and sell Deye's storage string inverter products and technology (collectively, the “Technology”). Defendant submits that the NonCompete Agreement was merged, through a comprehensive integration clause, into Plaintiff and Deye's later Distribution Agreement regarding the Technology. (agreements collectively, the “Agreements”).

** updated with links **

 

[Norwasian]

not quite....

Wrote a whole story here years ago....

short take away story is :

Keith started a company and engineered the first true hybrid long ago that produced the GTIL sun 1KW and GTIL sun 2 KW
in order to grow the business he sold that company and tech to a Aircon factory of epic proportions called Deye , provided he would keep the software patents and could start his own branch called Sunsynk that has exclusivity in SA and UK, Deye could service the rest of the world.
Together they presented their brand new 8 kw version at a tradeshow in Hongkong where it was noticed by a couple of gents out of texas who run a company called Sol-Ark, who came with a very good proposal to Deye, but demanded exclusivity for the US Split phase machines.
To make sure

so here we are

If your order is big enough, Deye allows you to have your name printed on the inverter, provided you take care of direct customer support, there is no change in firmware or look to the Deye main branch

for it's 3 main sellers there is an agreement of different gui to make the marketable in their own markets ,the firmware is the same, the components remain the same

I believe this may be accurate for Deye, Sunsynk, and Sol-Ark. However, with LVTOPSUN, the firmware is definitely not the same--at least, the GUI/interface is rather different. The LVTOPSUN, for example, has no option of setting battery-usage times, as I understand the Deye to have, and the display is not the same.

I just lost my LVTOPSUN, a 3KW, 48-volt model, due to the horrible act of trying to use the RS485 port. I plugged a patch cord into it and to the port of the same label on the JK BMS of my battery, with results recorded HERE. But I have also uploaded a manual, which I scanned--not having found it online anywhere, that can be seen in the resources section HERE. The manual shows the screen functions, beginning on page 7, which I think will suffice to demonstrate that this model is different from Deye.

From what I understand, the firmware may be the most significant difference. The unit worked great--until I ruined it by attempting to connect it to a battery. Now I don't know if I will ever attempt inverter-battery communication again.

 

[houseofancients]

I believe this may be accurate for Deye, Sunsynk, and Sol-Ark. However, with LVTOPSUN, the firmware is definitely not the same--at least, the GUI/interface is rather different. The LVTOPSUN, for example, has no option of setting battery-usage times, as I understand the Deye to have, and the display is not the same.

I just lost my LVTOPSUN, a 3KW, 48-volt model, due to the horrible act of trying to use the RS485 port. I plugged a patch cord into it and to the port of the same label on the JK BMS of my battery, with results recorded HERE. But I have also uploaded a manual, which I scanned--not having found it online anywhere, that can be seen in the resources section HERE. The manual shows the screen functions, beginning on page 7, which I think will suffice to demonstrate that this model is different from Deye.

From what I understand, the firmware may be the most significant difference. The unit worked great--until I ruined it by attempting to connect it to a battery. Now I don't know if I will ever attempt inverter-battery communication again.

LVtopsun rebadge multiple inverters from different OEM's ( just like EG4), so it is quite reasonable to think you may have a different inverter..

Deye doesnt make a 3KW model

 

[Norwasian]

Deye doesnt make a 3KW model

Well....supposedly, LVTOPSUN doesn't either. Just the same, I have one.

 

[houseofancients]

Well....supposedly, LVTOPSUN doesn't either. Just the same, I have one.

Looks like this is a rebadged signeer inverter

SIGINEER POWER M3048BP USER MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Sigineer Power M3048BP user manual online. Transformerless Off Grid Solar Inverter Charger. M3048BP battery charger pdf manual download. Also for: M5000h-48bp.

www.manualslib.com

 

[TK1979]

not quite....

Wrote a whole story here years ago....

short take away story is :

Keith started a company and engineered the first true hybrid long ago that produced the GTIL sun 1KW and GTIL sun 2 KW
in order to grow the business he sold that company and tech to a Aircon factory of epic proportions called Deye , provided he would keep the software patents and could start his own branch called Sunsynk that has exclusivity in SA and UK, Deye could service the rest of the world.
Together they presented their brand new 8 kw version at a tradeshow in Hongkong where it was noticed by a couple of gents out of texas who run a company called Sol-Ark, who came with a very good proposal to Deye, but demanded exclusivity for the US Split phase machines.
To make sure

so here we are

If your order is big enough, Deye allows you to have your name printed on the inverter, provided you take care of direct customer support, there is no change in firmware or look to the Deye main branch

for it's 3 main sellers there is an agreement of different gui to make the marketable in their own markets ,the firmware is the same, the components remain the same

Thank you for this history lesson!!!

 

[Norwasian]

Looks like this is a rebadged signeer inverter

SIGINEER POWER M3048BP USER MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Sigineer Power M3048BP user manual online. Transformerless Off Grid Solar Inverter Charger. M3048BP battery charger pdf manual download. Also for: M5000h-48bp.

www.manualslib.com

I'm not convinced that is the answer.

The Sigineer seems quite different from the LVTOPSUN model that I had. The LVTOPSUN is a toroidal, LF inverter, with an advertised momentary peak output of 3x its rating, whereas that Sigineer makes no such claims, resting on a 2x peak for five seconds. I can't seem to find the info as to whether it is toroidal or not. The Sigineer claims to have 100A MPPT output (if I have understood the manual correctly), whereas the LVTOPSUN had 80A charging output. There seem to be differences in connections/ports, with the only comms port on the LVTOPSUN being its sole RS485 port, whereas the Sigineer has a BMS port, an RS485 port, two USB ports, two serial ports, etc. (judging by its photo, as seen HERE--if the link will work). That Sigineer appears to be a 110-volt model; my LVTOPSUN was 220-volt.

To my eye, these differences exceed the definition of "rebadged."

Here in Thailand, LVTOPSUN is associated with Deye. I just sent my inverter yesterday to the LVTOPSUN company. I'm not sure what their intentions are, for the communications we had made it appear they will be looking to find fault with the user (me) for having mistreated it and voided the one-year warranty. We'll see. If, however, they somehow cannot find what they want to pin it on me, perhaps I'll get a repaired unit, or a replacement. At this point, I just want something that works, and am needing/willing to pay whatever that takes, warranty or no warranty. I need something that works!

 

[houseofancients]

I'm not convinced that is the answer.

The Sigineer seems quite different from the LVTOPSUN model that I had. The LVTOPSUN is a toroidal, LF inverter, with an advertised momentary peak output of 3x its rating, whereas that Sigineer makes no such claims, resting on a 2x peak for five seconds. I can't seem to find the info as to whether it is toroidal or not. The Sigineer claims to have 100A MPPT output (if I have understood the manual correctly), whereas the LVTOPSUN had 80A charging output. There seem to be differences in connections/ports, with the only comms port on the LVTOPSUN being its sole RS485 port, whereas the Sigineer has a BMS port, an RS485 port, two USB ports, two serial ports, etc. (judging by its photo, as seen HERE--if the link will work). That Sigineer appears to be a 110-volt model; my LVTOPSUN was 220-volt.

To my eye, these differences exceed the definition of "rebadged."

Here in Thailand, LVTOPSUN is associated with Deye. I just sent my inverter yesterday to the LVTOPSUN company. I'm not sure what their intentions are, for the communications we had made it appear they will be looking to find fault with the user (me) for having mistreated it and voided the one-year warranty. We'll see. If, however, they somehow cannot find what they want to pin it on me, perhaps I'll get a repaired unit, or a replacement. At this point, I just want something that works, and am needing/willing to pay whatever that takes, warranty or no warranty. I need something that works!

Again LVTOPSUN is a rebadger , not a manufactorer.
As I said "it looks like" , I can tell you for a fact that it is no deye

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I'm not convinced that is the answer.

The Sigineer seems quite different from the LVTOPSUN model that I had. The LVTOPSUN is a toroidal, LF inverter, with an advertised momentary peak output of 3x its rating, whereas that Sigineer makes no such claims, resting on a 2x peak for five seconds. I can't seem to find the info as to whether it is toroidal or not. The Sigineer claims to have 100A MPPT output (if I have understood the manual correctly), whereas the LVTOPSUN had 80A charging output. There seem to be differences in connections/ports, with the only comms port on the LVTOPSUN being its sole RS485 port, whereas the Sigineer has a BMS port, an RS485 port, two USB ports, two serial ports, etc. (judging by its photo, as seen HERE--if the link will work). That Sigineer appears to be a 110-volt model; my LVTOPSUN was 220-volt.

To my eye, these differences exceed the definition of "rebadged."

Here in Thailand, LVTOPSUN is associated with Deye. I just sent my inverter yesterday to the LVTOPSUN company. I'm not sure what their intentions are, for the communications we had made it appear they will be looking to find fault with the user (me) for having mistreated it and voided the one-year warranty. We'll see. If, however, they somehow cannot find what they want to pin it on me, perhaps I'll get a repaired unit, or a replacement. At this point, I just want something that works, and am needing/willing to pay whatever that takes, warranty or no warranty. I need something that works!

then stop buying 2nd and 3rd tier units. Schnieder, Victron, Magnum, Outback, Midnight Solar these are names you can rely upon to work for years and years.

 

[koppted]

then stop buying 2nd and 3rd tier units. Schnieder, Victron, Magnum, Outback, Midnight Solar these are names you can rely upon to work for years and years.

Do you know any DIY friendly Hybrid or offgrid units manufactured by OG Japanese companies?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Do you know any DIY friendly Hybrid or offgrid units manufactured by OG Japanese companies?

sure, but they cost almost twice as much as any of the tier one units I listed above, and to be honest they are very, very basic. while no doubt they are probably bullet proof, they are not cheap, do not come in split phase, and the largest i have seen was 3000 watts in a 24 volt format. the Japanese market has just not kept up as there are not many diy types here in japan (in regards to whole house solar). Most folks are playing with one or two panels and a spare car battery... as such they buy whatever is available on alibabba.

I started with magnum inverters over a decade ago, and have found no reason to change. yeah they cost more.... I get it, but I am still running my first magnum a MS2012 12 years later... My first 48 volt unit a MS4448 PAE is at least six years old maybe seven, and other than a repair from a lightening strike has been bullet proof.

all electric motors start with no issues, a/c split pack while running every single electrical item in the house and half of my shop.

I used two 1800 watt hair dryers to load it up while the entire house was running just to see if I could get it to shut down.... no bueno. it said "have a nice day" as its cooling fans finally came on...

 

[shadowmaker]

then stop buying 2nd and 3rd tier units. Schnieder, Victron, Magnum, Outback, Midnight Solar these are names you can rely upon to work for years and years.

Or Deye/Sunsynk/Sol-Ark?

 

[koppted]

sure, but they cost almost twice as much as any of the tier one units I listed above, and to be honest they are very, very basic. while no doubt they are probably bullet proof, they are not cheap, do not come in split phase, and the largest i have seen was 3000 watts in a 24 volt format. the Japanese market has just not kept up as there are not many diy types here in japan (in regards to whole house solar). Most folks are playing with one or two panels and a spare car battery... as such they buy whatever is available on alibabba.

I started with magnum inverters over a decade ago, and have found no reason to change. yeah they cost more.... I get it, but I am still running my first magnum a MS2012 12 years later... My first 48 volt unit a MS4448 PAE is at least six years old maybe seven, and other than a repair from a lightening strike has been bullet proof.

all electric motors start with no issues, a/c split pack while running every single electrical item in the house and half of my shop.

I used two 1800 watt hair dryers to load it up while the entire house was running just to see if I could get it to shut down.... no bueno. it said "have a nice day" as its cooling fans finally came on...

Dang! someone needs to be in the ear of the Japanese companies. What a market they are missing out on.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Or Deye/Sunsynk/Sol-Ark?

Deye/solark....when their designs have been on the market for over 15 years and they have units still going strong then you can toss them up to the 1st tier level... other wise they are 2nd tier, working on being 1st tier. not saying they are or are not, they just do not have a proven track record yet. give them time and they might, or might not.

Sunsynk? who is this?

 

[houseofancients]

Deye/solark....when their designs have been on the market for over 15 years and they have units still going strong then you can toss them up to the 1st tier level... other wise they are 2nd tier, working on being 1st tier. not saying they are or are not, they just do not have a proven track record yet. give them time and they might, or might not.

Sunsynk? who is this?

deye = sol-ark = sunsynk

 

[Brucey]

Together they presented their brand new 8 kw version at a tradeshow in Hongkong where it was noticed by a couple of gents out of texas who run a company called Sol-Ark, who came with a very good proposal to Deye, but demanded exclusivity for the US Split phase machines.

And that's the basis of the "designed by US veterans" sales spiel?