Half price electric cars

[Bongbong]

Tesla announced they are going to build a robotaxi, which could potentially compete with Hertz.

As for US politics, regardless of who "wins", robotaxis (ICE, or EV) will severely reduce car ownership in urban area's. The average cost of owning and operating a car in the US, where public transport is poor, averages about $1000 a month. Robotaxis do make sense in that scenario as you don't need to worry about parking, insurance, fuel and maintenance. Farmers and trades people will probably opt to lease them, from Hertz, Tesla or any other company, but when you don't need to drive yourself, you can do other more productive things for the business.

Will pointed to another interesting article that states that battery prices are likely to fall to below $56 by the end of this year and we can look forward to another price drop for electric cars. Combine that with the collapse of solar panel prices and the future for self sufficiency in energy is looking good from a cost perspective. Now lets hope politicians don't screw it up.

 

[teal95]

Reducing the price of batteries does nothing for their range, which is mostly limited by weight.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

There is another option. Final one. Do not comply.

View attachment 207833

OMFG a honest to gawd early 70's trailer park Ferrari... please any car other than a Yugo.

 

[D71]

OMFG a honest to gawd early 70's trailer park Ferrari... please any car other than a Yugo.

The yugo was a good car especially for the cheap price. Knew several ppl that had them. They had networked and sourced repair parts to keep them going - adapted some parts. Before there was an internet.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I was in my Niro

How do you like the Niro?
There are 2 different 2020 EXs at a dealer close to me with ~40,000 miles for ~$15k (after rebate).
I'm strongly considering one.

 

[ksmithaz1]

How do you like the Niro?
There are 2 different 2020 EXs at a dealer close to me with ~40,000 miles for ~$15k (after rebate).
I'm strongly considering one.

What I don't like:
The effing black interior and the red lighting. I live in Phoenix, I have a KonaEV, Ultimate with soft blue/white lighting and light grey interior that is much nicer. The vented seats mitigate the temp issues somewhat. The VESS is too effing loud. Wakes the dead in reverse. You can pull the plug without removing the bumper cover with a little care, I did, now it makes NO noise. Suits me. The Kona 'sings', it's fine.

They adjusted the DC charging curves. I don't remember exactly, I think its like 70KWH up to 50% then 50KWH up to 70% then 35,25, ... Non-issue if you are not on a trip with charging stops. I charge from my solar on a J1772/32A max most of the time, so if you are charging at home it's irrelevant. I occasionally go to Pinetop, there is a Nice EA/DCFC there by the Library, so if you plan a bit, not as big a deal.

I generally like my cars to drive and feel like a car. I don't like 1 pedal driving, I think it's stupid. The Niro has a standard instrument cluster, I keep it at level 1 regen, and it has a very similar feel to a standard ice vehicle, and it has a large display for the radio/maps/car play/android auto/etc.

The lane assist is nice and not too intrusive, it has adaptive cruise which I've come to expect. Last rental I had didn't have it I was irritated.

The mirror does not have the garage door function, only 'UVO'. Parts shortage crap back then I guess. I put my opener in the Sunglasses holder.

Visibility could be better in the blind spots, it has the safety beeps lane change and all that. All these smaller vehicles have similar issues IMNSHO.

EV's eat tires. To that end, they tend to come with LRR (Low rolling resistance) tires that are not very 'grippy'. In general steering and handling seems softer in an EV, but I'm not sure how much of that has to do with the torquee-ness of the motors. I put summer / traction A cheap tires on mine. I don't think it's worth it for premium tread, and frankly I don't see any range difference. YMMV, but it helps the feel with stickier rubber.

These cars are HEAVY for their size. It affects cargo capacity, but 4 people are fine, I think that also affects the road feel.

If your batteries are good, and your driving is mostly suburban, (50MPH average) you can expect close to 300 miles on a charge, well over the advertised 239.

I really do like the car a bunch. I might trade up for an IONIQ 5 at some point, but the only time I've been to a gas station in the last couple years, was to pee, or if I was driving a rental for work. Speaking of which, I rented a 2023? NiroEV in Sacremento. Flashier A/C radio controls, but they swapped the steering wheel controls L-R. 2020 is Radio left dash/cruise stuff right, Newer model is dash/cruise stuff left radio right. That was a fun 4 days, then more fun when I got back home to mine !

It will not leave an oil spot in your driveway. It really is very maintenance free, other than tires, and wiper-blades/car-washes. @G00SE was looking for something in the $15 range, tagged him for a look.

 

[G00SE]

It will not leave an oil spot in your driveway. It really is very maintenance free, other than tires, and wiper-blades/car-washes. @G00SE was looking for something in the $15 range, tagged him for a look.

I’m still window shopping as much as ever. Actually surprised at how many dealers in the valley have still chosen to forego registering to participate in the point of sale EV credit program.
Locally, it seems as of the weekend that the Kona and Niro are still the 2 most prevalent in that price range (excluding the Chevy, but those are everywhere right now at that price even pre rebate)
I’ve been hoping a 2020-2021 Ioniq limited will pop up for the right price. I really like what they offer
Of course I still keep tabs on any cheap Egolfs but there’s only like 40 2017+ for sale nation wide. It’s a niche platform imo but I’m a niche kinda guy lol

What I have especially noticed is that model 3 both mid and long range are becoming more common sub 20k with 60-90k miles on them.

A little surprised ID4 prices didn’t continue a rapid down trend as those, if trajectory continued would have hit 20k pre credit now.

There is a 2018 leaf SV with ~60k miles (heat pump and heated seats, as well as driver assistance package) for 9,900 after tax credit in the valley that I’ve been very tempted to buy for the last week. If it was a sv or sl plus id already have it in the driveway. I think I can get by with the smaller battery especially with charging options up here, but chademo makes that less promising so in that instance I really prefer the 60kwh battery

Fuel costs have increased 40 cents/gallon in the last 2 weeks locally. I think that trend will only continue, hoping to thread a needle of used EV slumps vs surging fuel prices lol

Oh, and like you… that Ioniq 5 REALLY has my eye. Fortunately it’s still a few years out for my price desires

 

[G00SE]

There is a large group of dealers in I think the New Jersey area that are registered for the POS tax credit and damn near everytime I run a nationwide search instead of local they have at least a half dozen cars I’d be tempted to buy, but I’m not paying for 2500 miles of shipping. Might be something worth looking into @42OhmsPA

 

[42OhmsPA]

What I don't like:
The effing black interior and the red lighting. I live in Phoenix, I have a KonaEV, Ultimate with soft blue/white lighting and light grey interior that is much nicer. The vented seats mitigate the temp issues somewhat. The VESS is too effing loud. Wakes the dead in reverse. You can pull the plug without removing the bumper cover with a little care, I did, now it makes NO noise. Suits me. The Kona 'sings', it's fine.

They adjusted the DC charging curves. I don't remember exactly, I think its like 70KWH up to 50% then 50KWH up to 70% then 35,25, ... Non-issue if you are not on a trip with charging stops. I charge from my solar on a J1772/32A max most of the time, so if you are charging at home it's irrelevant. I occasionally go to Pinetop, there is a Nice EA/DCFC there by the Library, so if you plan a bit, not as big a deal.

I generally like my cars to drive and feel like a car. I don't like 1 pedal driving, I think it's stupid. The Niro has a standard instrument cluster, I keep it at level 1 regen, and it has a very similar feel to a standard ice vehicle, and it has a large display for the radio/maps/car play/android auto/etc.

The lane assist is nice and not too intrusive, it has adaptive cruise which I've come to expect. Last rental I had didn't have it I was irritated.

The mirror does not have the garage door function, only 'UVO'. Parts shortage crap back then I guess. I put my opener in the Sunglasses holder.

Visibility could be better in the blind spots, it has the safety beeps lane change and all that. All these smaller vehicles have similar issues IMNSHO.

EV's eat tires. To that end, they tend to come with LRR (Low rolling resistance) tires that are not very 'grippy'. In general steering and handling seems softer in an EV, but I'm not sure how much of that has to do with the torquee-ness of the motors. I put summer / traction A cheap tires on mine. I don't think it's worth it for premium tread, and frankly I don't see any range difference. YMMV, but it helps the feel with stickier rubber.

These cars are HEAVY for their size. It affects cargo capacity, but 4 people are fine, I think that also affects the road feel.

If your batteries are good, and your driving is mostly suburban, (50MPH average) you can expect close to 300 miles on a charge, well over the advertised 239.

I really do like the car a bunch. I might trade up for an IONIQ 5 at some point, but the only time I've been to a gas station in the last couple years, was to pee, or if I was driving a rental for work. Speaking of which, I rented a 2023? NiroEV in Sacremento. Flashier A/C radio controls, but they swapped the steering wheel controls L-R. 2020 is Radio left dash/cruise stuff right, Newer model is dash/cruise stuff left radio right. That was a fun 4 days, then more fun when I got back home to mine !

It will not leave an oil spot in your driveway. It really is very maintenance free, other than tires, and wiper-blades/car-washes. @G00SE was looking for something in the $15 range, tagged him for a look.

Thank you very much for the detailed reply.
I had read about the reverse beep, my first mod would be disconnecting it when I got home.

They also have a Kona Ultimate in white with around the same miles for ~a grand more.
They are pretty much the same power train but the Kona uses a different battery manufacturer if my research during "lunch" was correct?
Iirc the Kona also had a slightly smaller cargo capacity, as long as I can fit my packout totes in the back I don't about a small difference.
Good to know on the tires, I'd just throw a set of cheap all seasons on and see what happens; I have a connection at a large tire shop so I'm not to worried about blowing through the first set with heavy foot driving.
Looks like I'll make the 60 mile drive to the dealer and see what's what.
I was set on a Bolt but my Silverado threw a serpentine bolt a few months ago around 50,000 miles so Chevys still on my shit list. It was fully warrantied but still.

 

[42OhmsPA]

A little surprised ID4 prices didn’t continue a rapid down trend as those, if trajectory continued would have hit 20k pre credit now.

ID4 you say...
Lol at the engine specs they have listed.
If it weren't for the 20" wheels on the 1st edition I'd consider it more but those tires will be salty.

 

[G00SE]

@42OhmsPA fwiw only the 2019 niro launch is available with LED. All 2020s (ex and ex premium) are halogen. I believe there’s a cold weather package available that offers enhanced seat heating/cooling.

In my digging it seemed a Kona ultimate was the easiest way to get all of the niceties, LED, driver assist, heated seats, car play, etc.
the niro was definitely roomier

 

[G00SE]

ID4 you say...
Lol at the engine specs they have listed.
If it weren't for the 20" wheels on the 1st edition I'd consider it more but those tires will be salty.

You can take factory atlas wheels (18s) and replace the 20s. They are bolt on
I don’t like big wheels either.
The draw for me on that car is I like how VW are put together (most of the time) and it has stellar ground clearance for an EV in that price bracket. And it’s by far the most SUV like

 

[42OhmsPA]

@42OhmsPA fwiw only the 2019 niro launch is available with LED. All 2020s (ex and ex premium) are halogen. I believe there’s a cold weather package available that offers enhanced seat heating/cooling.

In my digging it seemed a Kona ultimate was the easiest way to get all of the niceties, LED, driver assist, heated seats, car play, etc.
the niro was definitely roomier

Thanks. The Niro I'm considering had the heat pump / cold weather package.
I forgot reading about the halogens but figured updating them with LEDs (the proper ones that done blind oncoming drivers) would be my second mod.

 

[42OhmsPA]

You can take factory atlas wheels (18s) and replace the 20s. They are bolt on
I don’t like big wheels either.
The draw for me on that car is I like how VW are put together (most of the time) and it has stellar ground clearance for an EV in that price bracket. And it’s by far the most SUV like

I'll check that out when I go too.
If the vortex is still active I'm sure I could find someone to swap wheels.
Yea, they are put together nice except for those damned exhaust manifold bolts on the MKIV GTIs... Had to cut a wrench, weld it, heat it and bend it then grind it down thinner to get to them... I pulled the whole motor for the 2nd turbo upgrade...

 

[G00SE]

I'll check that out when I go too.
If the vortex is still active I'm sure I could find someone to swap wheels.
Yea, they are put together nice except for those damned exhaust manifold bolts on the MKIV GTIs... Had to cut a wrench, weld it, heat it and bend it then grind it down thinner to get to them... I pulled the whole motor for the 2nd turbo upgrade...

I say most of the time because mkivs piss me off. But I also can’t get enough 337s and 20ths either lol. At least the EV doesn’t have that type of worry.
One caution on the id4 is there is no heat pump available

 

[ksmithaz1]

I didn't like the way the ID4 drove, and when I was looking they had no range. The KonaEV is MUCH smaller than the NiroEV. It's also more fun to drive. I was not aware the headlamps were Halogen, I assumed they were LED for power reasons, but before a trip with some night driving, I looked that one up, and experienced it first hand: Running the headlights doesn't affect your range that you would notice. If you are thinking that is going to get you a few miles or something you would be totally wasting your money. On the battery front, the Kona had a big recall on some 2021's and all prior years. The batteries in mine were replaced in late 2021 just before I bought the thing. This is actually a pretty big deal, new traction batteries after 2 years, means it's unlikely I'll have an issue with degradation for an additional 2 years. There was also an SB on some motor noise bearings vibration thing, The motor got replaced about 3 months later, so I have a new motor and batteries, basically a new drivetrain.

If you just need to bop around the seats fold down in the Kona, I've done a few Costo runs with 3 cases of water, cat litter, TP papertowls, etc No problem. OTOH:



I toted 16 250W solar panels across town in the Niro. . . A little annoying listening to the chime complaining the hatch was open, and flashing on the dash but hey . . . I didn't have to rent a truck!

 

[G00SE]

@ksmithaz1 my main reason for the LED is to fight fire with fire
My night vision isn’t getting any better and I run HID on all my vehicles (I prefer how far the light beam “throws” vs led) but the harshness of oncoming LED on the single lane roads are painful.
I can’t even flash my giant light bar out of frustration when in the truck as I know they aren’t even using their high beams. The new ford super dutys seem to be the worst.

Although it is comical when I get flashed and I hit the sun button. It’s like they got hit with photo radar hah

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

@ksmithaz1 my main reason for the LED is to fight fire with fire
My night vision isn’t getting any better and I run HID on all my vehicles (I prefer how far the light beam “throws” vs led) but the harshness of oncoming LED on the single lane roads are painful.
I can’t even flash my giant light bar out of frustration when in the truck as I know they aren’t even using their high beams. The new ford super dutys seem to be the worst.

Although it is comical when I get flashed and I hit the sun button. It’s like they got hit with photo radar hah

I have a set of 4 old school KC highlighters on my truck... two wide beam fogs, and two narrow beam driving lights. but all four are 150 watts per.. when people refuse to dim.... I give them the wakeup call and it works every time.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Anyone here buy a white Niro today?... Was about an hour from the dealer when the salesman messaged me saying it was sold... I should have put a deposit down, my bad. On a positive note I got out of work early and it was 2 hours of nice driving weather.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Anyone here buy a white Niro today?... Was about an hour from the dealer when the salesman messaged me saying it was sold... I should have put a deposit down, my bad. On a positive note I got out of work early and it was 2 hours of nice driving weather.

yeah that was me... special order to ship to japan sorry bro.