Lithium battery upgrade but inverter shutdown

[taroblaro]

My system is a 4048sw trace inverter, trace c40 cc with 1.2 array, and an epever 8415an cc with 1.6 array.
I changed out my aging 20 kw fla batteries and put in 4 lifepower4s. I checked all connections and flipped the breakers on the batteries. All the pretty green lights came on, so I turned on the inverter. The charge controllers sprung to life,so I started changing settings to set up for lifepo batteries. After 5-10 minutes the inverter and ccs shut down. There's no load, no pv connected. Voltage is around 53 volts. The individual battery circuit breakers do not trip. To turn the inverter back on, I turn off the battery disconnect switch, turn off the battery circuit breakers for a few seconds, and turn them back on.

This is the ongoing situation. I've tried various parameters but with the same results. I've tried disconnecting one cc and then the other. The epever always shuts down. The c40 stayed on longer than the usual 5-10 minutes but shut down after I turned loads and pv on and voltage went up (60 volts).

This doesn't seem like a bad connection issue. It might be a epever issue but it might be a inverter issue. Anything obvious? Anything I could test?

 

[hwy17]

Do you have a grid or generator charger? First step would be to check the state of charge of all the lifepowers with the usb cable to a computer. Or just to charge them.

They will shut down for short circuit protection (can be triggered by a large inrush load on the inverter), amperage limit shutdown, and low voltage shutdown. If you really have no load on them, then it sounds like it would probably have to be low voltage shutdown, low pack voltage or one low cell.

 

[mikefitz]

Anything I could test?

Check that one or more of the batteries is not entering protection mode. Putting 4 12v batteries , each with its own bms, in series can lead to issues. The batteries need to be in the same stare of charge before conecting in series.

 

[taroblaro]

Do you have a grid or generator charger? First step would be to check the state of charge of all the lifepowers with the usb cable to a computer. Or just to charge them.

They will shut down for short circuit protection (can be triggered by a large inrush load on the inverter), amperage limit shutdown, and low voltage shutdown. If you really have no load on them, then it sounds like it would probably have to be low voltage shutdown, low pack voltage or one low cell.

No grid or generator. Voltage of all 4 batteries test within .1 volt of 53 volts. I've seen the epever voltage drop quickly right before it shuts down. What puzzles me is the 5-10 minute wait before it shuts down with no change in voltage.

 

[taroblaro]

Check that one or more of the batteries is not entering protection mode. Putting 4 12v batteries , each with its own bms, in series can lead to issues. The batteries need to be in the same stare of charge before conecting in series.

Theses are 48v batteries in parallel. Voltage is within .1 volt of each other.

 

[hwy17]

What is the back story on these batteries, all freshly delivered new from Signature?

If they're new it would seem weird for them to be way out of balance, but it's a likely cause of this behavior either way.

Can you wait and turn them on at a time when you can start getting a charge into them right away, before they shut down?

The more times you try it and get the shutdown result, the more you might be draining the problem low cells.

 

[taroblaro]

What is the back story on these batteries, all freshly delivered new from Signature?

If they're new it would seem weird for them to be way out of balance, but it's a likely cause of this behavior either way.

Can you wait and turn them on at a time when you can start getting a charge into them right away, before they shut down?

The more times you try it and get the shutdown result, the more you might be draining the problem low cells.

I'm a little confused. Several replies have mentioned batteries being unbalanced. I don't think they're out of balance. 1/10 of a volt seems really close. I don't think it's likely that all 4 batteries have a bad cell and all read a similar voltage.

That being said, I may try to download the battery software and see if it reveals something.

 

[Checkthisout]

Is your Epever set for 48 volts?

If everything is turning off, then it's obviously a connection issue.

Don't all the batteries talk to each other and shut down as a group if something is wrong?

Got some pics?

 

[taroblaro]

Epever and c40 are set for 48v. Epever will usually save changed settings, c40 never does so I get alot of practice pushing buttons.

I don't have the communication cables connected. Is that a necessity? I'm planning on trying to use the battery software to see if it gives me any clues.
I included a picture of my battery box. Any wire connection changes would be here. I'm not sure how much you can really see, but I appreciate any insight.

 

[Checkthisout]

Epever and c40 are set for 48v. Epever will usually save changed settings, c40 never does so I get alot of practice pushing buttons.

I don't have the communication cables connected. Is that a necessity? I'm planning on trying to use the battery software to see if it gives me any clues.
I included a picture of my battery box. Any wire connection changes would be here. I'm not sure how much you can really see, but I appreciate any insight.

Ok so rereading a bit.

When everything shuts down,

Using a DVOM, what voltage is present at the batteries and equipment connections?

Figure this out first. If there is not voltage present it means the batteries are shutting down.

So let's make that determination first.

 

[hwy17]

I'm a little confused. Several replies have mentioned batteries being unbalanced. I don't think they're out of balance. 1/10 of a volt seems really close. I don't think it's likely that all 4 batteries have a bad cell and all read a similar voltage.

Yeah sorry I could have more clearly specified. I mean the 16 cells could be internally unbalanced. This does not have to mean that there is a bad cell, 16 healthy cells can be out of balance with each other. A brand new battery is probably only as balanced as the cells are from the factory, which is not very balanced but good enough that yeah you don't normally expect shutdowns. If these batteries were used or sat in storage then much more out of balance is expected.

In any case, charging them is the first and necessary troubleshooting step. Only having solar to charge is precarious because if the batteries get drained all the way into hard shutdown they won't be able to wake up the charge controller.

 

[taroblaro]

Ok so rereading a bit.

When everything shuts down,

Using a DVOM, what voltage is present at the batteries and equipment connections?

Figure this out first. If there is not voltage present it means the batteries are shutting down.

So let's make that determination first.

When the system (inverter,ccs, batteries)is on, it reads 53.2 volts--all 4 individual batteries and the c40. The epever is currently disconnected, but I'm pretty sure it would read the same. In a few minutes, the system will shut down. The voltage everywhere (individual batteries, c40, epever, junction box will basically read zero. It will give me a reading in millivolts.

 

[Checkthisout]

When the system (inverter,ccs, batteries)is on, it reads 53.2 volts--all 4 individual batteries and the c40. The epever is currently disconnected, but I'm pretty sure it would read the same. In a few minutes, the system will shut down. The voltage everywhere (individual batteries, c40, epever, junction box will basically read zero. It will give me a reading in millivolts.

Ok so all 4 batteries are shutting down.

Do you have anyway of accessing and looking at battery data?

High Voltage shut down.

High Amperage shut down

Low voltage shut down

Where did the 60 volts come from?

 

[taroblaro]

Ok so all 4 batteries are shutting down.

Do you have anyway of accessing and looking at battery data?

High Voltage shut down.

High Amperage shut down

Low voltage shut down

I cannot see why the batteries shut down

Where did the 60 volts come from?

That is a good question. It may have to do with the fact that the array connected to epever has an open voltage of @85 volts. Sunpower 435 watt commercial panels. 4 connected in parallel.

It also may have to do with the settings not being right. C40 resets back to default after every shutdown.

 

[Checkthisout]

I cannot see why the batteries shut down

That is a good question. It may have to do with the fact that the array connected to epever has an open voltage of @85 volts. Sunpower 435 watt commercial panels. 4 connected in parallel.

It also may have to do with the settings not being right. C40 resets back to default after every shutdown.

So I would think the 60 volts is what is causing them all to shut down.

That's over-voltage protection kicking on.

 

[taroblaro]

Sorry I left a lot out. 60 volts was a one time thing when I may have adjusted adjusted c40 settings, and the system stayed on longer than the usual 5-10 minutes. I turned on the loads and then the pv (I believe in that order). It was sunny today, so voltage went higher.

 

[taroblaro]

The answer to this riddle is that the batteries needed a software upgrade. Tech support at one point mentioned that I was one version behind, but there was no further mention of it. Who wudda thunk? Neither tech support nor I for 2 weeks.