Looking for local help installing EG4 hybrid with batteries to my 26kw grid tied solar system. Anybody here in the Phoenix area?

[typester]

Lots, scratch that too much info here!! I'm overwhelmed and don't think I could tackle my project alone.
I'm looking for the most cost effective and set it and forget it system to eliminate my demand fees.
I have 400amp service,
26kw solar array, 82 panels I think
2 solar edge 11.2kw inverters.

I have too many loads to go off grid easily so grid tied demand elimination during SRP Peak hours is the goal. I charge 2 electric vehicles, run 3 AC units, and all my appliances are electric, no gas!!
My solar is perfect until around 5pm when the production drops below my usage...my wife cooks A LOT(not complaining) BUT electric ovens, induction cooktop, occasionally running 1 AC so the house doesn't get too hot before 8pm when demand turns off, I am regularly hitting 10 to 15kw demand fees, or $150 to $250!!!

I know I need a hybrid inverter EG4?
I need probably 20kwh batteries EG4?

Any local experts out there I'm happy to pay an electrician or expert to get this done.

Background: I've tried getting powerwalls approved through SRP but they reject the permit every time, they really don't want me to have batteries, I'd love to not install them in a way that requires their approval...I don't care if I feed power back to them ever from the batteries, I just want to get rid of the demand fees.

Sorry if this is about scattered, this is my start, I can answer any questions from here.
Thanks

 

[sunshine_eggo]

To AC couple to an inverter, your hybrid inverter power must be equivalent to your GT inverter power, i.e., 22.4kW, so that's where you need to start looking.

 

[BentleyJ]

Would need to stack 2 Sol-Ark 15K's or 18kpv's. Do a line side tap and quite bit of rewiring around the 400A main panel.

 

[Quattrohead]

Run your AC units only off of a separate inverter and battery system. Maybe some home automation load control so that not so many things are allowed to turn on and or run at the same time.

 

[shadowmaker]

I'm using Deye 12Ks which are about the same as Sol-Ark 15K and that's what you need (or similar size hybrid inverter). But you need only one, not two. You should replace one of your current inverters with SA-15K and AC couple it with the other. This way you can utilize whole PV array to charge batteries until they get (near) full. Then you should have ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) to disconnect AC coupling so that both inverters keep working independently and fulfill your loads or even backfeed grid with excess power. This is because otherwise SA-15K shuts down AC coupled inverter (=Solar Edge) when batteries get near full and half of your PV is wasted. When batteries are later drained ATS connects AC coupling back again.

This is how I use my two Deyes with my two Bluesun 15K grid tied inverters. They all have 11kWp panels so 44kWp total.

In here PoCos need to permit solar systems because our government regulates so. Don't know how's it going to be over your side of the pond where PoCos seem to do whatever they want.

If you can't get it permitted, then it's also possible to buy one SA-15K and AC couple it with one Solar Edge. This way it can use half PV to charge batts until they get full and the other half is fulfilling your loads/backfeeding. Then disconnect AC coupling with ATS so you have both battery power and full PV power.

 

[k490]

Lots, scratch that too much info here!! I'm overwhelmed and don't think I could tackle my project alone.
I'm looking for the most cost effective and set it and forget it system to eliminate my demand fees.
I have 400amp service,
26kw solar array, 82 panels I think
2 solar edge 11.2kw inverters.

I have too many loads to go off grid easily so grid tied demand elimination during SRP Peak hours is the goal. I charge 2 electric vehicles, run 3 AC units, and all my appliances are electric, no gas!!
My solar is perfect until around 5pm when the production drops below my usage...my wife cooks A LOT(not complaining) BUT electric ovens, induction cooktop, occasionally running 1 AC so the house doesn't get too hot before 8pm when demand turns off, I am regularly hitting 10 to 15kw demand fees, or $150 to $250!!!

I know I need a hybrid inverter EG4?
I need probably 20kwh batteries EG4?

Any local experts out there I'm happy to pay an electrician or expert to get this done.

Background: I've tried getting powerwalls approved through SRP but they reject the permit every time, they really don't want me to have batteries, I'd love to not install them in a way that requires their approval...I don't care if I feed power back to them ever from the batteries, I just want to get rid of the demand fees.

Sorry if this is about scattered, this is my start, I can answer any questions from here.
Thanks

SRP like APS requires all the equipment to be on the CEC list (California approved). The good thing is EG4 18 and Powerpro battery just got approved on the CEC list. You have to get a new design plan go to greenlancer get plans drawn up. I would probalby ditch the current GT inverters and get three EG4-18's and power pro batteries. Connect the existing panels to the EG4 18's. Don't buy anything until your design plans are approved from SRP and the city of Gilbert. Pencil out the cost see what your ROI would be before you do anything. Problem here where we live is for 4-5 months of the year we use lot of power. August I used 160kwh a day your probably lot higher then me. You might be around 250kwh a day in the summer. 3 EG4 PV18s would be $15k three powerPro would be around $11500. That would give you about 40kw battery storage. EG4-18kpv max rated current is 50amps so would have 150amps. Your panel is 400 amps 120% gives you 480 amp max busbar current input solar breaker would be 150 amps and main would be 330 amps.

 

[typester]

Thanks for all the replies!! Sounds like I could just replace 1 of my inverters with an eg4 18k and just use half my solar to charge instead of all....my goal is to spend $10k net after tax rebates, this would pay back in 5-6 years if save 150 per month in demand fees.
I have everything in the house automated to reduce demand during peak hours but my dang wife insists on cooking every day around 5 to 6pm! Freaking hate home cooked meals...lol! My cooktop is induction I have electric double ovens 2 refrigerators and 2 freezers, so my peak demand is almost exclusively cooking, and honestly I really think 20kwh in batteries would be plenty to get my demands fees close to zero. I'll keep reading, keep learning, but it seems the eg4 18k is more and more the better option paired with a 20kwh battery. I'm hoping I don't have to get approval from SRP though, they have denied me several times stating that my batteries must be able to absorb 100% of my solar output in the event of an outage, which is bull crap from what I've read, the inverters can just turn off...but I don't what to go through the 3 month process again to get denied...they are actively blocking me from reducing my demand fees.

Thanks again for all your help!!

 

[shadowmaker]

...they have denied me several times stating that my batteries must be able to absorb 100% of my solar output in the event of an outage...

That's funny as hell. Well, at least looked at my perspective. Maybe not yours...

 

[DIYrich]

If you don't care about grid down:

Put a sol-ark 15k or eg4 18kpv between the solar and Main Panel.

Solar and grid go into grid input.
CT between Solar and Meter.

Use Grid Peak Shave function to have SA / EG4 use battery to reduce draw from grid during peak usage.

During grid down, the SA/EG4 will disconnect from solar, and the solar should shutdown (like it does currently).

Another option is to put the Solar into the Gen Input port, and disconnect a few panels to reduce max production to under about 20kw (max for gen connection). If there is a solaredge setting to max pv to 20kw, that works too. The SA/EG4 use ul1741 to control production when grid down to keep within battery capacity.

If you want to put the DC PV into the SA or EG4, if there are Solar Edge optimizers on the panels, they either have to work with the SA/EG4, or you have to remove (and replace with RSD). My point is: it is doable, but may not be trivial.

Eg4 18kpv with a 15kwh powerpro is about $10k gross plus install (before tax credit).

 

[DIYrich]

Another option: off-grid inverter, and move ovens to a sub-panel powered by the inverter. Set the inverter to charge from grid during overnight hours. Maybe two eg4 6000xp and two 15kwh powerpros for about $10k plus install before tax credit. Since it can't export to grid, you don't need power company approval.

Note: I don't think the 6000xp can "supplement" grid, so if power exceeds 6000xp's max output, it will passthrough the grid. I think the 3000 can supplement grid.

 

[houseofancients]

That's funny as hell. Well, at least looked at my perspective. Maybe not yours...

Yeah, just shows they are clueless and pretty much trying to make it as hard as possible

 

[k490]

Another option: off-grid inverter, and move ovens to a sub-panel powered by the inverter. Set the inverter to charge from grid during overnight hours. Maybe two eg4 6000xp and two 15kwh powerpros for about $10k plus install before tax credit. Since it can't export to grid, you don't need power company approval.

Note: I don't think the 6000xp can "supplement" grid, so if power exceeds 6000xp's max output, it will passthrough the grid. I think the 3000 can supplement grid.

That's exactly what I'm going to do off grid through a transfer switch with 6000xp I have one already working on installing. The only issue is cooling it because it gets so hot here in the summer my garage hits 95F in July and Aug have to see how hot it gets probably have to cut back the power usage to 1000 watts during the hottest part of the year. I can put in a mini-split now I'm eating up half my solar power to cool a room that runs the inverter. I'm thinking about maybe buy a small window unit and take it apart make it into a tiny mini-split that only feeds cool air to the inverter with some sheet metal duct work.

That's why I have the reliance control transfer switch I can change out what circuit I want on grid power or PV power. I will still hook the inverter to grid power for charging off peak. Last year I worked hard to keep our demand charge down I used less demand power then 2022 but was charged more overall. I was shifting so much power off peak they hit me with a "Adjuster fee" which is bunch of fees added based on power your using. If you pull ton of power even off peak still hit you with high bill. Don't know about SRP haven't had them as a utility in 20 years after I moved out of their territory but APS has really started to put the screws to customers.

I called signature, and EG4 lot of confusion if the EG4-6000XP will supplement grid after lot research I have concluded it cannot. It's a pure off grid inverter. The reason is to supplement it would be require the inverter output to be wired in parallel with the gird. Hybrid all it's doing is measuring the load and supplementing. The problem with this is new smart meters will detect even the slightest feedback if you don't have an agreement with the utility they will notice it. My guess you be getting a knock at the door from either power utility, or city inspector.

New issue I just ran into got new homeowners insurance with in a few weeks I was called told they needed to do a full inspection of my home. I never heard of this I guess it's more common now if they see un permitted panels didn't disclose you had solar might be a problem.

Thanks for all the replies!! Sounds like I could just replace 1 of my inverters with an eg4 18k and just use half my solar to charge instead of all....my goal is to spend $10k net after tax rebates, this would pay back in 5-6 years if save 150 per month in demand fees.
I have everything in the house automated to reduce demand during peak hours but my dang wife insists on cooking every day around 5 to 6pm! Freaking hate home cooked meals...lol! My cooktop is induction I have electric double ovens 2 refrigerators and 2 freezers, so my peak demand is almost exclusively cooking, and honestly I really think 20kwh in batteries would be plenty to get my demands fees close to zero. I'll keep reading, keep learning, but it seems the eg4 18k is more and more the better option paired with a 20kwh battery. I'm hoping I don't have to get approval from SRP though, they have denied me several times stating that my batteries must be able to absorb 100% of my solar output in the event of an outage, which is bull crap from what I've read, the inverters can just turn off...but I don't what to go through the 3 month process again to get denied...they are actively blocking me from reducing my demand fees.

Thanks again for all your help!!

Didn't know about the SRP requiring batteries to be that big odd. This thread another person in Gilbert I don't think his batteries are that big. They want to make it difficult and costly keep price high. APS and SRP seem to have same rules mostly.

 

[typester]

That's funny as hell. Well, at least looked at my perspective. Maybe not yours...

I think I understand what you are saying, the inverter is the issue...I like the idea of just using half the panels, so then I don't need to absorb 20+khw of juice, just 10ish. I really only want the absolute minimum amount of batteries to significantly reduce the demand fees for maximum ROI. I'm really hoping I can find a solution to avoid SRP or find someone familiar enough to get them to approve it....either or I'm fine. I'm discussing with a few installers right now but these damn solar companies are charging like $500/hr for electrical work and it destroys the entire purpose.

 

[shadowmaker]

I think I understand what you are saying, the inverter is the issue...I like the idea of just using half the panels, so then I don't need to absorb 20+khw of juice, just 10ish. I really only want the absolute minimum amount of batteries to significantly reduce the demand fees for maximum ROI. I'm really hoping I can find a solution to avoid SRP or find someone familiar enough to get them to approve it....either or I'm fine. I'm discussing with a few installers right now but these damn solar companies are charging like $500/hr for electrical work and it destroys the entire purpose.

Yep, one of your Solar Edges feed its AC output to Automatic Transfer Switch (=ATS) which has one output and two inputs A and B which can't never be connected simultaneously. You cut your current AC output line and connect SE side of that line to ATS output side. Grid side of that line goes to A or B input side of that ATS (let's say you choose A for it). Then you connect your Sol-Ark GEN-port to the remaining ATS input (B). You also connect Sol-Ark GRID-port to your main/sub panel depending what you want power with Sol-Ark/batteries. Use fuses everywhere.

When batteries hit 99% SOC you need to program a dry-contact from your S-A or battery to send a signal for ATS to change B input to A input thus disconnecting your SE from Sol-Ark and to connect SE back to feeding grid just the way it is doing in your current setup. When batt discharges down to let's say 90% you program dry-contact to switch S-A back again.

There is a reason why you HAVE to disconnect your SE from S-A when batts are getting full but it's getting late here so it's another story.