My first stab at hybrid grid/solar fifth wheel setup

[chiznitz]

Hello everyone. A quick introduction. I'm a 42 years old with 4 kiddos and a wife. Each year my family sets out on a 40-50 day road trip with our fifth wheel. I also use the fifth wheel for hunting trips, bike race trips, boondocking in Moab, etc. This year we changed out of our big toy hauler that had a massive onboard generator and I'd like to make my life a little easier, thus I'm venturing into the inverter world along with solar.

Attached is a very garbage diagram I made. (I have never and will never be good at putting visuals on paper)

Goals:

Comfortably run one 15 BTU AC on a Honda EU2000i, 1600W/13.3A Continuous, while adding some small headroom for short Microwave runs, along with some other very low draw items like lights, tvs, starlink, water pump, furnace fan. Obviously we would not be running all of these at the same time. I have a 2nd EU2000i that I can connect in parallel for 3200W/26.6A continuous, if I should intend on firing up a 2nd AC or using coffee pots, Blackstone or other high draw appliances.


Plan:
Quattro II 24V 3000W that will provide extra supply when needed while on generators, and can also run one AC temporarily when we stop to make lunch at rest areas or museums where we could spend an hour while the dogs hang out in the fiver. (I did wire in a front plug for the generators so I can quickly connect the fiver to the generator in the back of my truck should the AC be too much to run off of battery for a bit)

Equipment:

Quattro II 3000W 24V 120 -
I picked this model because of the built in transfer switch for shore/generator power, this helps me keep things neat and tidy.

Orion 24-12V 70A Step down - Break away switch, some lights up front, and the electric front leveling jacks are all currently directly wired to the 12v battery and I'd wire these to a bus bar that is fed by the Orion. There is also a 6 AWG wire running from the 12V battery to the convertor, I believe I could technically disconnect this but then if we turn off the inverter, we would not have 12v, so I plan on connecting that to the "12v bus bar" as well.

Victron MPPT 30AMP -
This would be for my first 1000 Watts of solar. I would add a second one should I add more panels later.

BMV 712 w/ shunt
I've had this for years, it has the display thing on it, but I usually just roll it up in the compartment and connect with Bluetooth.

Cerbo GX
I think this is going to be very essential for me, I'd love to turn on DVCC, but it's also possible I have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way, this would be very nice to have so I can easily change settings on the Quattro without breaking out the laptop. For instance, setting the input voltage to around 13 Amps when on generator power so that the Quattro can help out.

I'm sure my diagram is going to suck to read so I'll type it out as well for those willing to read.

1. The quattro's AC Out 1 will be connected directly to my distribution panel, making the entire camper able to be powered by the inverter. (I know it can't power everything at once)
2. The DC Positive will come out of the Quattro and have a battery disconnect, then a 300AMP fuse right before the positive connection to a 24V 200amp hour bank made out of 2 24v 100 batteries in parallel.
3. I would then run what I believe would be a 6 AWG wire from the positive battery terminal to a 24V Bus Bar. This bus bar will power the origion 24-12V and cerbo GX, The 24V bus bar will also be fed by the MPPT. The shunt will have it's positive wire connected here as well.
4. The 24-12v step down will have a bus bar, one 6 AWG wire going to the fiver's converter, the other going to a bus bar to feed the electric leveling jacks, break away, and some lights that are currently directly wired to the 12V battery.
5. The shunt will come off the negative side of the battery and be connected to the negative bus bar along with the Quattro, step down, MPPT, and cerbo
6. Diagram doesn't show it, but I'd also add a battery disconnect between the positive battery terminal and the 24V Bus Bar.



My questions outside of whatever advice you will all give me..

1. Do I need a fuse close to the Orion 24-12v converter feed line? I don't believe the existing line shows one today, but was wondering if it's a good idea. My biggest fuse in the converter is currently 30AMP for slide, and I really don't see us using more than 70AMP at a time on the DC side. Would a fuse be warranted here? Size?

2. My wire sizes could and most likely are, not correct as I have not sized those yet, due to wanting to run this setup by everyone first.

3. Solar Circuit Breaker Sizing - 40AMP?

4. Should I move the 24-12V Orion to the 24V Bus Bar or is it ok to leave on positive terminal? As I type this I realize I'd probably need an additional battery disconnect unless I move it to the 24V bus bar...

5. Am I missing essential fuses or sized wrong on what's on the diagram? 300 on main line, 10 on cerbo GX positive, 40amp Breaker before MPPT. ...Do I need something between MPPT and 24V bus bar?

6. My local victron rep recommended I add 2 multiplus devices instead of the Quattro, this is out of my budget but he has me worried about what to do if the Quattro somehow fails on me. I was considering some type of bypass but it just feels unsafe to me and would like to see if there are recommendations on a way to safely bypass the Quattro with shore power so we can at least get back to ongrid living if the Quattro should fail.

7. The victron rep also recommended a small lithium 12v battery attached between the 24-12v Orion and my 12v bus bar. I assume he would have then had me tune the Orion to around 13.2 volts or so to keep that battery up, but I don't believe that's what the Orion is for and I'm not exactly sure why I would need the buffer battery since 30AMPs is my biggest slide and I'd assume the 70AMP Orion can handle that fine?


If anyone actually reads all this and calls me out on stupid stuff, I appreciate you and thank you :-D

 

[chrisski]

7. The victron rep also recommended a small lithium 12v battery attached between the 24-12v Orion and my 12v bus bar. I assume he would have then had me tune the Orion to around 13.2 volts or so to keep that battery up, but I don't believe that's what the Orion is for and I'm not exactly sure why I would need the buffer battery since 30AMPs is my biggest slide and I'd assume the 70AMP Orion can handle that fine?

I have a Orion 24/12-70 with no 12 volt battery and it powers the slide outs and 50 amp leveling ack just fine on my fifth wheel.

Overall, your build seems not too different than the one I have in my signature block.

 

[justinm001]

The Quattro is only for 2 separate inputs like if you had an onboard generator as it has a transfer switch. The multiplus has 1 input so you just connect shore cable to it. I'm assuming the Honda is portable so you'd just plug the generator into the shore cable

I'd go with the multiplus 2x120 3000w. It unique where you can plug in 240v 50a shore and get all the power or use 120v 50a down to under 13a. All the other Victron inverters are 120v so to get 240v you need 2 of them. (do not get a 230v Victron they're EU not USA).

Buy more batteries, id go with 2 200ah rack ones and get them with a BMS that works with the Cerbo like the EG4 V2. This basically eliminates the need for the bmv shunt.

The 70a Orions boost to 85a so should be plenty. I get like 1000w from them at start for at least a few minutes. You shouldn't need a buffer battery. I think many with them have 30a Orions. If you do get one a small lawnmower battery should be plenty.

 

[chiznitz]

Overall, your build seems not too different than the one I have in my signature block.

Chris, I went through your posts, thank you, there was a lot of info in there that will be helpful for me, especially the parts list for the fuses etc!

The Quattro is only for 2 separate inputs like if you had an onboard generator as it has a transfer switch. The multiplus has 1 input so you just connect shore cable to it. I'm assuming the Honda is portable so you'd just plug the generator into the shore cable

I'd go with the multiplus 2x120 3000w. It unique where you can plug in 240v 50a shore and get all the power or use 120v 50a down to under 13a. All the other Victron inverters are 120v so to get 240v you need 2 of them. (do not get a 230v Victron they're EU not USA).

Buy more batteries, id go with 2 200ah rack ones and get them with a BMS that works with the Cerbo like the EG4 V2. This basically eliminates the need for the bmv shunt.

Justin. I wired a 2nd plug in the front bay so that I can easily plug my generator in while the generator is in the truck. I was going for the quattro2 because of the transfer switch. Yes, it's very rare that I'd have the generator running while on shore power since I actually have to get up and start it, however, if I had it plugged in to the front and a kiddo opened the back shore power plug, they could fry themselves on that male end.

I apologize but I'm not following the logic with the 240v. I have no need for 240v, so I'm not sure why I would need it, or have 2 multiplus. I've already ordered the "Victron Quattro-II -24/3000-70-50/50-2x 120V [QUA242305130]". I'm just not following how this doesn't fit my needs? It should put 120 50AMP on L1 and 120 50AMP on L2 when connected to shore power, correct? When I'm on one 2000 generator, it should put 120 13.3 on both legs, but shared. It would then power assist L1 as needed?

I'd love to go with more batteries and more expensive ones, however, this is already turning into way more cost than I was originally planning on spending. My goal is to eventually add the additional 1000watts of solar and at that time, buy one additional 24v, for a total of 3. I guess it may be better to just take the pain now and buy two bigger batteries rather than have 3 down the road so I could consider that, but 2 multiplus devices is bank breaking for me, so If the Quattro will work for what I'm after, I'd rather stay on that route. I was planning on getting china lithium and letting the Quattro handle the low temp protection, and since I already have the shunt, I wouldn't need a special battery to work with the cerbo.

I appreciate you replying and if i'm wrong in any of this (which I sure I am), I'd appreciate the additional feedback.

 

[justinm001]

I apologize but I'm not following the logic with the 240v. I have no need for 240v, so I'm not sure why I would need it, or have 2 multiplus. I've already ordered the "Victron Quattro-II -24/3000-70-50/50-2x 120V [QUA242305130]". I'm just not following how this doesn't fit my needs? It should put 120 50AMP on L1 and 120 50AMP on L2 when connected to shore power, correct? When I'm on one 2000 generator, it should put 120 13.3 on both legs, but shared. It would then power assist L1 as needed?

No there is only a L1 input 1 (shore) and L1 input 2 (gen). So with 1 inverter you will only get 120v into 1 leg. So when on shore you'll only get 50a or 6000w. If you had the 2x120 MP or 2 inverters you could use all 240v/50a or 12000w from shore.

The Quattro is 100a in and out and has 2 outputs but they're the same phase. By default out2 is on only when on shore/gen but it's all programmable.

Also you can't run shore and the generator. The Quattro has 2 inputs but only 1 is active at a time. It'll switch to in1 if both are running.

To be frank, I'm not getting the point of running a generator while in the back of the truck, I'm assuming that's only when driving, otherwise you'd just run the shore cord from the RV side to the generator and the inverter doesn't care if gen or shore.

If while driving you might want to just get a DC DC converter and wire up the trucks alternator to charge while driving. Grab a 12/24 Orion, run some thick wires and some Anderson plugs then when you're driving it's getting close to 1000w from the truck, using 1hp.

The Quattro is superior than the MP, I have 3 5000w ones in my rig. Also there's no real issue unless you plan on constantly using over 6000w on shore. Victron has power assist so you get basically 9000w on shore to cook and stuff then when below 6000w it'll recharge the batteries.

On the house side you can run one half to out1 and other half to out2 then even use programming to turn one half off if batteries are low. Just be cautious of the neutral as both lines are in phase. The Quattros can handle 100a so just need to make sure each has its neutral.

You always can upgrade later to a 2nd inverter. Just a bit of rewiring and reprogramming

 

[justinm001]

No there is only a L1 input 1 (shore) and L1 input 2 (gen). So with 1 inverter you will only get 120v into 1 leg. So when on shore you'll only get 50a or 6000w. If you had the 2x120 MP or 2 inverters you could use all 240v/50a or 12000w from shore.

The Quattro is 100a in and out and has 2 outputs but they're the same phase. By default out2 is on only when on shore/gen but it's all programmable.

Also you can't run shore and the generator. The Quattro has 2 inputs but only 1 is active at a time. It'll switch to in1 if both are running.

To be frank, I'm not getting the point of running a generator while in the back of the truck, I'm assuming that's only when driving, otherwise you'd just run the shore cord from the RV side to the generator and the inverter doesn't care if gen or shore.

If while driving you might want to just get a DC DC converter and wire up the trucks alternator to charge while driving. Grab a 12/24 Orion, run some thick wires and some Anderson plugs then when you're driving it's getting close to 1000w from the truck, using 1hp.

The Quattro is superior than the MP, I have 3 5000w ones in my rig. Also there's no real issue unless you plan on constantly using over 6000w on shore. Victron has power assist so you get basically 9000w on shore to cook and stuff then when below 6000w it'll recharge the batteries.

On the house side you can run one half to out1 and other half to out2 then even use programming to turn one half off if batteries are low. Just be cautious of the neutral as both lines are in phase. The Quattros can handle 100a so just need to make sure each has its neutral.

You always can upgrade later to a 2nd inverter. Just a bit of rewiring and reprogramming

Actually I'm wrong. I didn't realize they made a Quattro 2x120 like the MP. This will let you run all 12,000w from shore so you're good there

 

[chiznitz]

Actually I'm wrong. I didn't realize they made a Quattro 2x120 like the MP. This will let you run all 12,000w from shore so you're good there

Wooo thank you, that was driving me nuts. I just left on a bike ride and kept thinking about it in my head that I’m an idiot and ordered something wrong and worse, thinking I had no idea what I was doing lol.


The generator in truck…. Just to run an AC while we do road side stops to eat lunch or take a nap. We also leave our doggos behind and take kids into museums and what not along the road, so it’s good to have an easy way to plug in,… the big ass cable would be annoying to grab out and wrestle everytime and drag the gen close enough. My intention is a 2nd plug up front that I plug the dog bone into and then I have a nice and light 30amp cable that i can easily plug into gen without wrestling the boa constrictor

 

[justinm001]

Wooo thank you, that was driving me nuts. I just left on a bike ride and kept thinking about it in my head that I’m an idiot and ordered something wrong and worse, thinking I had no idea what I was doing lol.


The generator in truck…. Just to run an AC while we do road side stops to eat lunch or take a nap. We also leave our doggos behind and take kids into museums and what not along the road, so it’s good to have an easy way to plug in,… the big ass cable would be annoying to grab out and wrestle everytime and drag the gen close enough. My intention is a 2nd plug up front that I plug the dog bone into and then I have a nice and light 30amp cable that i can easily plug into gen without wrestling the boa constrictor

I use this adapter all the time and a 15a extension cord. Makes life so much easier than pulling the 50a out. https://a.co/d/891OOFO

We almost exclusively daytrip in our RV and a 15k btu a should be about 1500w, and with 5kwh batteries you should get 2.5-3 hours. Also you use AC more when it's sunny so more solar less battery usage. I never use my generator unless boondocking mid summer for multiple days. I think once you get it all setup you'll see you won't really use the generator.

 

[chiznitz]

Well I got everything but the solar hooked up but do believe I put the shunt in the wrong place.

Anyways I’m having a pretty big issue that I dont understand.

When I switch the Quattro to inverter it charges just fine and the camper is powered by the shore power. When I switch it to “charge only” everything shuts off completely, I haven’t been able to find any reason why ??

 

[justinm001]

Yes shunt should be coming off the battery negative and everything into it. This way it measures everything coming/going.

I'm confused, you set the inverter to charge only and wondering why it is only charging the battery? Inverter needs to be on for power to flow through it.... Most leave it on 24/7.

 

[chiznitz]

Yes shunt should be coming off the battery negative and everything into it. This way it measures everything coming/going.

I'm confused, you set the inverter to charge only and wondering why it is only charging the battery? Inverter needs to be on for power to flow through it.... Most leave it on 24/7.

It's not charging. The lights go completely out on the Quattro.

Also, "Charge Only" mode is made for when you are on shore power and will allow the transfer switch to continue providing shore power while preventing a battery drain if said shore power should shut off for an unknown reason. It's right in the manual...

3. Operation
3.1 On/Off/Charge Only Switch

.....
"when the switch is switched to 'charger only', only the battery charger of quattro-ii will operate (if mains voltage is present). In this mode input voltage is also switched through to the 'AC Out' Terminal.

NOTE: when only the charger function is required, ensure that the switch is switched to 'charger only'. This prevents the inverter from being switched on if the mains voltage is lost, thus preventing your batteries from running flat'


I'm so disgusted with me mounting the shunt and wiring it improperly, I sorta went and cut the wire and solder'd it, then said SOB. I'll redo that when I get time. I'm super over this project and need a break for a bit.

 

[justinm001]

It's not charging. The lights go completely out on the Quattro.

Also, "Charge Only" mode is made for when you are on shore power and will allow the transfer switch to continue providing shore power while preventing a battery drain if said shore power should shut off for an unknown reason. It's right in the manual...

3. Operation
3.1 On/Off/Charge Only Switch

.....
"when the switch is switched to 'charger only', only the battery charger of quattro-ii will operate (if mains voltage is present). In this mode input voltage is also switched through to the 'AC Out' Terminal.

NOTE: when only the charger function is required, ensure that the switch is switched to 'charger only'. This prevents the inverter from being switched on if the mains voltage is lost, thus preventing your batteries from running flat'


I'm so disgusted with me mounting the shunt and wiring it improperly, I sorta went and cut the wire and solder'd it, then said SOB. I'll redo that when I get time. I'm super over this project and need a break for a bit.

That's how mine works. Not sure if it charges or not but just double checked and it cutoff shore. It might be because you have an input limit set or some other setting needed.

 

[chiznitz]

I think it’s a virtual switch option set wrong for both of us?

 

[justinm001]

I think it’s a virtual switch option set wrong for both of us?

My virtual switch's are disabled and I use assistants. I don't have any use for the charge only option anyways

 

[chiznitz]

To make it easy on myself I could just move the Orion 24-12v negative over to the load/charge right ? Won’t have to cut any new wires I think that one will reach nicely

 

[justinm001]

To make it easy on myself I could just move the Orion 24-12v negative over to the load/charge right ? Won’t have to cut any new wires I think that one will reach nicely

Yes as long as nothing else is connected to the battery. Cant see from the photos but definately will work.

 

[chiznitz]

Yes as long as nothing else is connected to the battery. Cant see from the photos but definately will work.

Thanks, it’s just the 24v step down and inverter.


I had some stuff running yesterday and forgot to up the amperage in the config, what I’m not sure of is why the three 15 amp breakers on one side of my panel tripped, converter, refrig, and fireplace.

Fireplace wasn’t running, I did forget to unplug the charger behind the converter so not sure what that would do,

I was running both acs which are on different legs.

Probably going to contact a dealer as I can’t get that charger only to even charge

 

[justinm001]

Thanks, it’s just the 24v step down and inverter.


I had some stuff running yesterday and forgot to up the amperage in the config, what I’m not sure of is why the three 15 amp breakers on one side of my panel tripped, converter, refrig, and fireplace.

Fireplace wasn’t running, I did forget to unplug the charger behind the converter so not sure what that would do,

I was running both acs which are on different legs.

Probably going to contact a dealer as I can’t get that charger only to even charge

Not sure why 3 Breakers would all trip unless theyre gfci and there's a ground fault issue.

Why do you want charger only? I don't get the purpose of it unless you were only using the inverter as a massive battery charger, which I believe is Victrons use case since they don't sell large chargers

 

[chiznitz]

I don’t necessarily need it, I’m just concerned that it’s not functioning as designed.

The inverter is pretty loud and when I’m on shore power sitting outside with the family it would be nice to not hear it.

 

[chiznitz]

Well idiot me has some big problems.

I am getting the 12v out of the Orion when I touch the 12v positive on Orion and the shunt with a meter, but nothing 12v works. There was already a bunch of 12v stuff grounded to chassis with a screw so I left it alone.

In my diagram I have the Quattro chassis ground and Orion negative going to negative bus bar , then the bus bar is grounded. For space reasons I chose not to use the bus bar.

Looking at what I have now I think I’m not understanding had the 12v items that already exist should be grounded. Do I need to take everything that’s going to chassis ground into one bus bar ? I also look at how I have it currently and the shunt itself is attached the negative on the Quattro and the negative on Orion, but the shunt itself never goes to ground.

Even though I can get 12v when I touch the shunt and my 12v side I don’t get 12v back at my panel, I’m thinking grounding ?

TLDR: can I ground the Quattro chassis, the shunt, Orion, and existing 12v to same negative bus bar that has one wire to chassis all together ?