Need to hire a solar consultant with LA/California experience

[rwhite8134]

We are interested in hiring a solar consultant that is knowledgeable about building a code compliant system in the Los Angeles area. Specifically we are interested in maybe a Google Meet/Zoom call of up to 1 hour or so to discuss what we wish to do at our residence and how to maintain code compliance as it will be permitted/inspected, grid tied, etc. but preferably zero export.

Happy to pay a fair rate for a call to discuss and for a consultant to answer some questions.

 

[DIYrich]

If you post your requirements, you can get a lot of free advice here. Then you can make appointments with solar installers to have the system you want installed. The advice here is worth every penny you pay.

 

[rwhite8134]

The advice here is worth every penny you pay.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

We are not interested in locating a solar installer/installation. We are interested in DIY, I thought that was the purpose of this forum, no? Solar installers in our area are only interested in selling and installing their equipment, all microinverter based. We are wanting to do a string inverter system but we want to be code compliant.

The questions we have are probably too many to post here but all surround code compliance in our area. We are NEC 2020 for LA County (AFAIK) and I don't see any amendments in our AHJ code.

An example: I seem to recall coming across NFPA code that setbacks aren't required on a detached garage or unfinished/unoccupied structure. I would like to consult with someone with experience to confirm or contradict this and help locate supporting code. Are setbacks required on such a structure? Further, is RSD still required on such a structure?

I think a consultation would be more fruitful and I don't mind paying for an hour of time with someone experienced in this area. But I suppose I can pose some questions here.

 

[cs1234]

Edit your thread title to mention California.. there are some really smart guys from California on here, but they might miss it otherwise.

Just read every post on the forum by zanydroid .. that should set you in the right direction.

@zanydroid Got any suggestions for him?

 

[DIYrich]

DIY is fine too. Some things like NFPA may be up to the local municipality as to how much of the code they use, and variances to it.

 

[cs1234]

Setbacks are a local zoning issue.

Local zoning issues are a setback.

 

[JRH]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

We are not interested in locating a solar installer/installation. We are interested in DIY, I thought that was the purpose of this forum, no? Solar installers in our area are only interested in selling and installing their equipment, all microinverter based. We are wanting to do a string inverter system but we want to be code compliant.

The questions we have are probably too many to post here but all surround code compliance in our area. We are NEC 2020 for LA County (AFAIK) and I don't see any amendments in our AHJ code.

An example: I seem to recall coming across NFPA code that setbacks aren't required on a detached garage or unfinished/unoccupied structure. I would like to consult with someone with experience to confirm or contradict this and help locate supporting code. Are setbacks required on such a structure? Further, is RSD still required on such a structure?

I think a consultation would be more fruitful and I don't mind paying for an hour of time with someone experienced in this area. But I suppose I can pose some questions here.

I feel that you would do well to explore what resources many people on this forum will share…A forum is only as good as the participants…
There are many good ones here, and a somewhat smaller group of seriously good ones..

i have seen several people try to hire a consultant as you seek … In each case it went south big time for the homeowner… it’s not impossible, but you will have a hard time getting good value and not getting taken advantage of…there’s trickery everywhere in the world at this point in the solar related industry…

it’s just my opinion , either hire a credible professional and let him do the work ..guarantee it and service it …
OR …….
dive in and learn all you can,save a lot of money and never have to hire anyone again.

best wishes…J.

 

[rwhite8134]

I suppose there would be problems for a homeowner if trying to hire a consultant to help plan/engineer/permitting a DIY system or help with choosing and installing DIY equipment. We are specifically focused only on code compliance related questions and navigating NFPA/CEC/NEC/IBC/AHJ code. I'm not concerned about being taken advantage of when paying for an hour or two for a consultation. There is value to me in not having to spend my time navigating the code, I'm certain there are experts out there that could answer various code only questions.

I do appreciate the advice and trust me, if I could find a professional to do an install for us that would accommodate (or even entertain) our goals I would gladly hire one. Sadly every installer I have contacted in SoCal (12 at last count) refuses to install a string inverter system and will not even discuss such a system nor our goals. I totally get it, there are plenty of PPA and other customers still out there to do installs for, why should an installer waste time on someone who actually wants to be knowledgeable about what they are purchasing and having installed on their residence.

I will keep reading and researching this forum, Mike Holt's and others and maybe I will get to the point of not needing a code consultant. It would be nice though to save all that time and just hire someone to get some code references and questions answered.

EDIT: My bad, I realize now my original post sounds like I want to hire a consultant to help build a system. I should have been more clear that we are only interested in code compliance questions like setback requirements, RSS stuff, 1741 and Rule 21 stuff, etc. My mistake, sorry for not being clearer folks.

 

[400bird]

There are services to write the entire permit. They will likely be able to answer all your questions and, more difficult in my opinion, write a permit package that the AHJ is more likely to approve.

 

[rwhite8134]

There are services to write the entire permit. They will likely be able to answer all your questions and, more difficult in my opinion, write a permit package that the AHJ is more likely to approve.

Thanks! That's great advice.

I intended to use a planning/permitting service when I get to that point but I just assumed that all they do is take your list of equipment and specifics about the project and prepare the engineering plans and/or permit and that's it, regardless if it will pass planning/permitting/code. I didn't think that they would help you or push back if you choose equipment that wouldn't pass planning/permitting. I'm aware of Greenlancer and a handful of others and I have them bookmarked but haven't reached out to inquire how much they will help. I will do so.

Thanks again!

 

[Solar Guppy]

Solar Design Tool and Green Lancer is what I used and would recommended

String typology isn't what it use to be. You will have to use either micro-inverters OR rapid shutdown devices for each panel, so cost wise micro inverters in many situations ( NEC compliant ) are lower cost as there is no DC wiring to deal with, its just AC trunks on the roof.

You didn't mention storage, but DYI is not something for first timers in NEC2020 ( 40 of 50 states now ), is another whole level of design concerns. Sure if one spends the time to learn the codes, what equipment can be used ( only UL9540 listed ) it can be done, but its much more expensive than buying budget parts and random batteries.

 

[rwhite8134]

Solar Design Tool and Green Lancer is what I used and would recommended

Thanks!

String typology isn't what it use to be. You will have to use either micro-inverters OR rapid shutdown devices for each panel, so cost wise micro inverters in many situations ( NEC compliant ) are lower cost as there is no DC wiring to deal with, its just AC trunks on the roof.

TS4-A-F or TS4-A-S was the plan, but one of my code related questions was whether a RSS was even required for a detached/unoccupied structure. We will use them regardless but was curious if no setbacks are required why would RSS be, who would be up there?

You didn't mention storage, but DYI is not something for first timers in NEC2020 ( 40 of 50 states now ), is another whole level of design concerns. Sure if one spends the time to learn the codes, what equipment can be used ( only UL9540 listed ) it can be done, but its much more expensive than buying budget parts and random batteries.

Yea, I've found 9540 a whole other bag of worms I'm navigating through currently. Fun stuff

 

[Solar Guppy]

RSS is about safety of the responders first and foremost, no exceptions in NEC2020 with any building, only ground mount would be exempt.

NEC2023 does have an exemption for OPEN structures only not adopted yet as most states can take up to 3 years ( or more ) to adopt the new codes

 

[DIYrich]

Sadly every installer I have contacted in SoCal (12 at last count) refuses to install a string inverter system and will not even discuss such a system nor our goals.

Sol-ark site has a section you can find an installer in your area.

 

[Shimmy]

What are your current setbacks from the property line? Is your home sprinklered? Is the garage? How much (if any) battery do you want? How much PV? Do you have any shading? Is the garage on your street or an alley (front/back)?

Is permitting done through the county or your municipality? Outside of Santa Monica and the City of LA most building departments are pretty accessible if you want to ask specific questions related to your proposed install. Roof setbacks are one of those things that generally have a lot of local flexibility.

I am an electrical engineer, but I would be wary of soliciting advice with a zoom call (as much as I have often wanted something similar for areas outside my expertise to get myself grounded on a solution). At a minimum you want to find someone that will come out to your house and make sure there isn't something that you are forgetting to ask.

If you want advice here, I would recommend posting an aerial shot of your house or something that can give people a little more information.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Local zoning issues are a setback.

Look at you making a joke.. ?

 

[zanydroid]

Wow I’m honored to be summoned.

Have you reached out to your AHJ to see if DIY solar and ESS are allowed by owner builder? Hopefully the county has a responsive office. Most places allow it. Have you asked your neighbors or real estate professionals how the county is to deal with for construction in general.

For a string inverter I do like the idea of checking the SolArk list, also I believe the main low cost company that does plain strings is Tesla, seems like everyone else in California is SolarEdge or Enphase. There are probably some boutique places around for a long time that will do it, but you will likely pay for the privilege (and they’re probably selling SolArk).

Don’t discount the plan writing companies. I haven’t worked with them directly (found a construction consultant/supplier on the forum and they helped me with the communications), but the final output was good for microinverter system. At worst they might lead you down a slightly more expensive route, like more conduit, burly disconnect when your AHJ is happy with something simpler, more subpanels than needed. As long as they don’t force you to service upgrade it can’t be that bad…

You can also get the plans checked on the forums here before you submit.

I’m wrapping up my first DIY system this month after buying my first shitty turnkey system last year, and I think for the most part all the code learning just translated into some micro optimizing of cost here and there. It didn’t make the difference between project being viable and non-viable.

I can’t imagine that much pushback in California that can come from an AHJ. It’s a solar friendly state. Maybe some HOA will be slightly annoying. The power company behavior / interconnection process will be well documented online , unless maybe you are on some obscure Municipal or county POCO.

Your project risk will be managed quite well simply by not ordering equipment until the plans and interconnection pre application are approved.

Code navigation I don’t think is a big deal from the perspective of clearing permit and interconnection application. So long as you stay within normal system design and buy equipment above a quality tier. Here the regulatory capture $$$ of paired UL9540 might help. You know those combinations of inverters and batteries is approvable. Similarly if you look on CEC (California Energy Commission) equipment list the stuff on there has a 95% chance of passing AHJ and POCO requirements on equipment.

Now I think knowing code and installation techniques are pretty important when you actually do the work, since you might be tempted to cut corners. DC system is harder than AC system in this regard. Here all the code citations required to be pasted verbatim onto the plans (required by California building code) might help… OTOH there’s just so much fine print that ends up on the page that you might not know what to pay attention to.

Collecting pictures of your property would be helpful.

For the setbacks question, they should be directed to AHJ and fire department.

Installing RSD is not really that onerous, the cheapest SunSpec ones are like $15 per panel, and the transmitter is included in a lot of inverters. Doesn’t meaningfully add labor since you typically can install RSD on the ground by snapping a few things together, before lifting the panels up. The main issue IMO is the extra failure point.

 

[rwhite8134]

Thanks for such great advice folks!

The electrical contractor I used for my meter/main upgrade referred me to one of his NEC graduates (contractor teaches NEC at local community college) and making contact with him was very beneficial. Turns out he now works for a large solar company but takes on odd jobs on weekends. He is in a neighboring AHJ but has done some installs in our AHJ, I hired him this last week to come for a site visit and consulting to discuss local AHJ expectations and setbacks/code/etc. It was definitely worth the money. I have a much better grasp on what will be required in our AHJ. He indicated I am just overly worried. He is also willing to do the racking and module install and further consulting to help make sure I can get past permits/inspection. I feel much more confident about a DIY or sorta hybrid DIY now.

But to answer some of the questions and provide some content for future folks looking to do some sort of DIY within Los Angeles county:

We are in an eastern municipality within LA county so city is the AHJ but the city adopts LA code pretty much verbatim as well as California/NEC/NFPA/etc.

I've been exclusively using the California Energy Commission list for choosing and reviewing various equipment assuming that if it's on the CEC list then it is Rule 21 compliant and UL-whatever as well. The consultant I hired also suggested I use the CEC list. Can anyone further confirm or refute that equipment on this list *should* be usable in at least the state of California?

@Shimmy - I will post an aerial if I can figure out how to include it.

What are your current setbacks from the property line? Is your home sprinklered? Is the garage? How much (if any) battery do you want? How much PV? Do you have any shading? Is the garage on your street or an alley (front/back)?

Is permitting done through the county or your municipality? Outside of Santa Monica and the City of LA most building departments are pretty accessible if you want to ask specific questions related to your proposed install. Roof setbacks are one of those things that generally have a lot of local flexibility.

Garage and house is setback maybe 15 - 30 feet from property lines. Neither home or garage is sprinklered. Garage is detached, unfinished and unoccupied. Our plans are ~45kWh for storage. Garage PV is ~7kW, house PV planned is ~7kW (house solar to be done in mid/late 2024, yea second set of plans/permits). Have some tree shading however we already have a licensed arborist ready to trim/remove trees and shading as needed. Garage is in rear of home. Permitting is local municipality. I suppose they are too large to get answers from them. I've called 3 times, no return call. I've emailed twice, no reply.

Also we are not in a HOA nor LADWP, we are SCE.

Yes, Sol-Ark is on my list of potential hybrid inverters. Of course the EG4, LuxPower and Megarevo are also on it. The Schneider XW Pro would be the preferred equipment but when we move everything to all electric in 2025 we would need 3 of the XW Pro units vs 2 of the hybrid units so it's probably not going to be our choice. The SolarEdge SE11400H-US is on my list but seems to only have 1 tracker so I'm not certain how useful that will be with 3 strings facing different directions (NE, SW, S). Further I'm not certain how well or flexible the SolarEdge is with zero export or self consumption. The hybrids seem to have at least 3 trackers.

RSS: After reading more here on the forums, some further code research and discussing with my consultant I have a good grasp of what to do now with RSS, not overly concerned about it any longer and yea the MLPE cost is not a concern.

I realize this isn't really too wise but we are planning to do our solar installation in two stages, detached garage now with ~7kW and ~15kWh storage not tied to grid or house at all (completely off-grid) and then in mid 2024 resubmit plans for adding PV only to the house to connect to existing inverter and increase storage. This is due to pretty old roofs on both that need re-roof and deck repairs and some FHA home improvement grants/loans that become available in 2024.

Also the detached garage now has the meter/main (house originally had meter/main with no power to garage), meter location approved by SCE and just passed AHJ inspection last week, trenched to a house subpanel. Garage now also has it's own subpanel. 3 ground rods, bonded between structures, connected to water main, etc.

Thanks again for all the guidance folks!




Here are a couple aerials:

 

[400bird]

Yes, Sol-Ark is on my list of potential hybrid inverters. Of course the EG4, LuxPower and Megarevo are also on it. The Schneider XW Pro would be the preferred equipment but when we move everything to all electric in 2025 we would need 3 of the XW Pro units vs 2 of the hybrid units so it's probably not going to be our choice. The SolarEdge SE11400H-US is on my list but seems to only have 1 tracker so I'm not certain how useful that will be with 3 strings facing different directions (NE, SW, S). Further I'm not certain how well or flexible the SolarEdge is with zero export or self consumption. The hybrids seem to have at least 3 trackers.

I wouldn't recommend Solar Edge for a solution with batteries because you are forced to use their very expensive batteries. However, the single solar input isn't a restriction. Each panel gets and optimizer which means you've got a good MPPT on each and every panel, you can have strings facing in every direction and partial shading, each panel will still produce at their peak.

Yes, you'd need more individual inverters if you go with the Schneider, but the individual inverters cost half the price. And you can customize the system to exactly your needs. Want more solar? Add more charge controllers.
Also, if something fails, you can pull that single component and not take down major sections of your system.

The biggest hurdle is going to be batteries, with the new regulations I don't know what is currently approved for a battery with any of those inverters.

 

[zanydroid]

CEC list and interconnection app is 95% accurate esp for new equipment. Hedges on the forum here got tagged for using an older inverter (and he was allowed by the app to file an application), but he collects inverters and has other options so it wasn’t a big deal. Unfortunately I don’t know how you can derisk further besides delaying buying the equipment until you get full permit and PG&E pre review done.

SolarEdge is a pretty closed system. You can AC couple to it with another hybrid to paper over issues like battery expense and export control not to your liking. The optimizers are also not interoperable with other brands (there are claims from solar edge about compatibility modes but best folks can tell on the forum it’s not easy to access).

There isn’t really a need with NEM3 to have zero export unless you are trying to use the no export interconnect option (which isn’t a NEM plan at least with PG&E). I’m not sure it’s rational to use that since the NEM interconnect applications are cheaper and even with reduced export rates you have a shot at breaking even against monthly access charge. I did not do the math directly though.

I realize this isn't really too wise but we are planning to do our solar installation in two stages, detached garage now with ~7kW and ~15kWh storage not tied to grid or house at all (completely off-grid) and then in mid 2024 resubmit plans for adding PV only to the house to connect to existing inverter and increase storage. This is due to pretty old roofs on both that need re-roof and deck repairs and some FHA home improvement grants/loans that become available in 2024.

I expect doing it all at once later is cheaper. Single interconnect, permit review, and planset fee, which would save probably $800 at least to do in one shot.

Also batteries and inverters are likely to get cheaper.

Now if you need the battery backup now or there is an expiring grant then you should go get the value now.

Note SGIP battery rebates I believe are super backed up in SoCal/SCE territory so it may take a while to claim that, also it may step down in amount by the time you get to the front of the waiting list.